The Straight Truth About the Bush Economy

[Tyrone Slothrop]

tieguy,

Just sitting here waiting for the wife and in-laws to show up for some fall-off-the-bone ribs, and I was wondering how that Google search went for you.

Have you been educated just a little? Do you still think your elected representatives are doing all they can for you and yours? Ever wonder what Cheney and the oil execs talked about, and why they wouldn't be sworn in when they testified before Congress? Or is the cigar stroking intern still holding your interest?

Come on, answer at least a couple of questions... you're a smart guy, you must have thought things out beyond the talking points. Tell us what you've distilled from your day of Googleing.

 

[over9five]

I think he's still waiting for you to answer his question, Susie.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I think he's still waiting for you to answer his question, Susie.

????What's that about?????

You were a teacher at one time?

 

[tieguy]

tieguy,

Just sitting here waiting for the wife and in-laws to show up for some fall-off-the-bone ribs, and I was wondering how that Google search went for you.

Have you been educated just a little? Do you still think your elected representatives are doing all they can for you and yours? Ever wonder what Cheney and the oil execs talked about, and why they wouldn't be sworn in when they testified before Congress? Or is the cigar stroking intern still holding your interest?

Come on, answer at least a couple of questions... you're a smart guy, you must have thought things out beyond the talking points. Tell us what you've distilled from your day of Googleing.

I don't really need the googling. i didn't just walk into this issue for the first time. If your theory of global warming were true you and your ribs would be getting smoked. In fact the jury is out on global warming. Its a catchy phrase to beat the republicans with. You never did answer the question though. If its a threat why didn't wild bill fix it with Al Gores help?

 

[tieguy]

Tieguy,

I dont want to fight with you, just trying to present some facts. The reason the dates are different for job losses and job gains is that the jobs lost were in the recession that ended in 2003 and began in 2001. The jobs gained data was from the recovery that started in 2004 through 2005. The average loss in wages across the board is $9000/yr. The wage gap between jobs lost and jobs gained is over 20%.

The fact is you slanted the facts to try to make your case and you again ignored the positive increases in high paying skilled jobs that I previously pointed out. Thats not the facts sister.

What do I want you to do? I would like you to hold elected representatives responsible. I would like you to admit that Bushs economic policies have not been good for the average American. I would like you to admit that everything bad is not Clintons fault (he had a Repub Congress, remember?).

Thats easy enough the economy is kicking but despite the fact Bush inherited the start of the recession from Clinton, despite 9/11 , despite the enron scandels and despite some nasty hurricanes. That means Bush did a heck of a job. Give credit where credit is due.

Did you read a bit on global warming? Youre in MD, right? Do you want to lose all those tasty Chesapeake Bay crabs? I dont, and though the mild winter is nice, the increased precipitation East and prolonged drought West is not so good. Remember the spring floods on the East coast last year?

The jury is still out on global warming . In fact weather events are within the norm. In fact we had floods before someone coined the phrase for global warming. Nice phrase to try to pin on the republicans. Why didnt bill fix it while he could?

Clinton told Bush that global warming was the biggest threat to America, it still is.

Yet he never made it the priority the biggest threat to america should have deserved. Kinda like or by the way George I forgot to fix this global warming thing could you take care of it for me?

The Middle East policy is a joke. The road to Democracy in the Muslim world leads directly through the mosque. Im sure that is not what the Cheney Rumsfield - Perle crowd had in mind when they engineered this war of choice. Our greatest threat in other countries is Pakistan. They are only a bullet away from being a radical Islamic State that possesses nuclear weapons. Remember AQ Kahn?

Yea we probably should have ignored the middle east and let Saddam run amok all over the region.

My hope is that intelligent people, such as yourself, open their eyes to what is really happening in the world, and stop marching blindly towards their own destruction.

Or perhaps its really you marching blindly to your own destruction. No that won't happen because us right wing nazi type republicans will still fight for your right to hate us.

 

[wkmac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_treaty#Position_of_the_United_States

Wikipedia has an interesting article on Kyoto with the section on the US position liked above. Kyoto in many respects IMO is bogus. If you really look hard at it, as in read the treaty to begin with (thank you internet), what is being done is an attempt to commoditize pollution and thus create a market for buying and selling the rights to pollute via pollution credits. Now in it's defense, the thinking is making it an economic payoff for developed countries to formulate solutions and then sell their un-needed pollution credits to other countries for a profit which subsidizes the cost of the alternatives to greenhouse gases. In other words, you use the free market to solve the problem. Problem is not everyone is in the boat including the 2 biggest potential polluters going forward and that is China and India. Kyoto because of this appears to be a document also about global wealth and business redistribution. I'm all for Zero pollution and think we all should do everything we can towards that effort but I'm not sold on Kyoto by a long shot.

Democrats decry Bush about Kyoto but the fact is they had their doubts prior to Bush so that ole saying of the pot calling the kettle black comes into play on this one!

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

tieguy,

Your convoluted way of replying makes it difficult to respond in kind. I will attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff as best i can, just this once, though I am beginning to think that this is a wasted exercise, since facts only get in your way, and you are not swayed by them.

The fact is you slanted the facts to try to make your case and you again ignored the positive increases in high paying skilled jobs that I previously pointed out. Thats not the facts sister.

There were no figures supplied for new, higher paying skilled jobs in your or my post. I would prefer that you don't prefer to me as 'sister'. I am a 55 year old male, if you must know, and I'm not your 'brother' either.

Thats easy enough the economy is kicking but despite the fact Bush inherited the start of the recession from Clinton, despite 9/11 , despite the enron scandels and despite some nasty hurricanes. That means Bush did a heck of a job. Give credit where credit is due.

We are discussing the American economy, not the Chinese. It is not 'kicking'. Inflation is back. The 'heck of a job' line is fitting, though.

The jury is still out on global warming . In fact weather events are within the norm. In fact we had floods before someone coined the phrase for global warming. Nice phrase to try to pin on the republicans. Why didnt bill fix it while he could?

The jury is not out. The Earth is getting warmer. That is one of the facts you choose to ignore. The causes of the warming can be argued, the facts cannot. There is not a short term fix, and remember, there was a Republican congress during Clinton's presidency (good thing, in some ways).

Yet he never made it the priority the biggest threat to america should have deserved. Kinda like or by the way George I forgot to fix this global warming thing could you take care of it for me?

Facts please, not talking points. Google can be your friend, you just might not like the facts it gives you.

Yea we probably should have ignored the middle east and let Saddam run amok all over the region.

Clinton can hardly be accused of ignoring the Middle East. Saddam was contained. The war was of choice. Please refer to recent Downing St. revelations and President Carter's comments on CNN with Larry King this week. I think he has a better understanding of the situation than you or I can ever hope to have.

Or perhaps its really you marching blindly to your own destruction. No that won't happen because us right wing nazi type republicans will still fight for your right to hate us.

I don't march blindly, or at all, for that matter. I take in facts and make up my own mind. If you republicans would return to the ideals of you party I would support you 100%. You are allowing yourselves to be duped. You brought up the Nazi reference, maybe it's the uniform you like. I have no use for them, and don't believe that this country has reached that point yet. Give us a good depression and an intelligent ruler, and who knows what the masses will do. Hell, there's a good percentage that still believes Saddam had something to do with Sept 11.

If you cannot be civil in your responses, please don't bother replying. One more thing, if you can't learn to format properly, just leave the colors and fancy stuff out. It doesn't help.

 

[tieguy]

tieguy,

Your convoluted way of replying makes it difficult to respond in kind. I will attempt to separate the wheat from the chaff as best i can, just this once, though I am beginning to think that this is a wasted exercise, since facts only get in your way, and you are not swayed by them.

No my friend the problem here is you think you are the candy man. Your "facts" are your candy and you think you are the only one with a key to the candy machine.

There were no figures supplied for new, higher paying skilled jobs in your or my post.

While you did not state it I was sure your selective presentation of "fact" was supplied by the department of labor. As such I was sure someone so talented at acquiring these "facts" could easily do so again without requiring me spoonfeeding you. I apologize if I overestimated your talents.

It is not 'kicking'. Inflation is back.

In fact inflation has slowed and was never outrageous.

Facts please, not talking points. Google can be your friend, you just might not like the facts it gives you.

Facts you say. Perhaps you should do some googling yourself.

Average high temperature in Arizona( considered by most to be one of our hotest states) in 2004 was 82.4 in 1995 it was 85 degrees. I guess Arizona is experiencing global cooling.

Care to study highest recorded temperatures by continent?

Place Date Degrees
Fahrenheit Degrees
CelsiusWorld (Africa) El Azizia, Libya Sept. 13, 1922 136 58North America (U.S.) Death Valley, Calif. July 10, 1913 134 57Asia Tirat Tsvi, Israel June 21, 1942 129 54Australia Cloncurry, Queensland Jan. 16, 1889 128 53Europe Seville, Spain Aug. 4, 1881 122 50South America Rivadavia, Argentina Dec. 11, 1905 120 49Canada Midale and Yellow Grass,
Saskatchewan, CanadaJuly 5, 1937 113 45OceaniaTuguegarao, PhilippinesApril 29, 191210842Persian Gulf (sea-surface) Aug. 5, 1924 96 36Antarctica Vanda Station, Scott CoastJan. 5, 1974 59 15South Pole Dec. 27, 1978 7.5 14
Notice most were recorded early in this century. You would think they would all be recorded in the last decade or two?

How about highest recorded temperatures by state?

State Temp.
friend Temp.
C Date Station Elevation
in feetAlabama 112 44 Sept. 5, 1925 Centerville 345Alaska 100 38 June 27, 1915 Fort Yukon est. 420Arizona 128 53 June 29, 1994 Lake Havasu City505Arkansas 120 49 Aug. 10, 1936 Ozark 396California 134 57 July 10, 1913 Greenland Ranch -178Colorado 118 48 July 11, 1888 Bennett 5,484Connecticut 106 41 July 15, 1995 Danbury 450Delaware 110 43 July 21, 1930 Millsboro 20D.C. 106 41 July 20, 1930 Washington 410Florida 109 43 June 29, 1931 Monticello 207Georgia 112 44 Aug. 20, 1983Greenville 860Hawaii 100 38 Apr. 27, 1931 Pahala 850Idaho 118 48 July 28, 1934 Orofino 1,027Illinois 117 47 July 14, 1954 E. St. Louis 410Indiana 116 47 July 14, 1936 Collegeville 672Iowa 118 48 July 20, 1934 Keokuk 614Kansas 121 49 July 24, 19361 Alton (near) 1,651Kentucky 114 46 July 28, 1930 Greensburg 581Louisiana 114 46 Aug. 10, 19361 Plain Dealing 268Maine 105 41 July 10, 19111 North Bridgton 450Maryland 109 43 July 10, 19361 Cumberland & Frederick 623; 325Massachusetts 107 42 Aug. 2, 1975 New Bedford & Chester 120; 640Michigan 112 44 July 13, 1936 Mio 963Minnesota 114 46 July 6, 19361 Moorhead 904Mississippi 115 46 July 29, 1930 Holly Springs 600Missouri 118 48 July 14, 19541 Warsaw & Union 705; 560Montana 117 47 July 5, 1937 Medicine Lake 1,950Nebraska 118 48 July 24, 19361 Minden 2,169Nevada 125 52 June 29, 1994 Laughlin 605New Hampshire 106 41 July 4, 1911 Nashua 125New Jersey 110 43 July 10, 1936 Runyon 18New Mexico 122 50 June 27, 1994 Waste Isolat. Pilot Pit3,418New York 108 42 July 22, 1926 Troy 35North Carolina 110 43 Aug. 21, 1983 Fayetteville 213North Dakota 121 49 July 6, 1936 Steele 1,857Ohio 113 45 July 21, 19341 Gallipolis (near) 673Oklahoma 120 49 June 27, 19941 Tipton 1,350Oregon 119 48 Aug. 10, 1898 Pendleton 1,074Pennsylvania 111 44 July 10, 19361 Phoenixville 100Rhode Island 104 40 Aug. 2, 1975 Providence 51South Carolina 111 44 June 28, 19541 Camden 170South Dakota 120 49 July 5, 1936 Gannvalley 1,750Tennessee 113 45 Aug. 9, 19301 Perryville 377Texas 120 49 Aug. 12, 1936 Seymour 1,291Utah 117 47 July 5, 1895 Saint George 2,880Vermont 105 41 July 4, 1911 Vernon 310Virginia 110 43 July 15, 1954 Balcony Falls 725Washington 118 48 Aug. 5, 19611 Ice Harbor Dam 475West Virginia 112 44 July 10, 19361 Martinsburg 435Wisconsin 114 46 July 13, 1936 Wisconsin Dells 900Wyoming 114 46 July 12, 1900 Basin 3,500


Most again happened in the early part of the last century , none in the years 2000 plus. How can this be? Have you had enough facts yet?

Clinton can hardly be accused of ignoring the Middle East. Saddam was contained.

Lol. I hope you're not a warden at one of our prisons with that mindset.

The war was of choice. Please refer to recent Downing St. revelations and President Carter's comments on CNN with Larry King this week.

ROFLMAO. Jimmy Carter. the guy that did such a great job with the iran hostage situation? You my friend are killing me.

 

[tieguy]

hmmm. Tyrone kinda quiet since I posted his google facts debunking global warming. Actually I think I kinda shot that issue right between the eyes with them thar google bullets tyrone ast me fer. Yessir guess I'll go pick me up some ribs and sweet yams while that thar slothrop gal kicks her google machine and tries to find me some more left wing info about sometin else that may be a threat to us. Kind peed all over that thar global warming conspiracy thang.....yes sir. We had us some global warmin bout 50 years ago but dang thing jest somehow went away all by its lonesome. I know Tyrone Susie why don't ya start one of them thar global cooling theories. And while your at it why not do some of that thar google searching and learn a little bit bout global weather patterns before you open your mouth again. ....Yee Haaaaw riding off in the sunset with global warming jerky in my saddle bags....

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

hmmm. Tyrone kinda quiet since I posted his google facts debunking global warming. Actually I think I kinda shot that issue right between the eyes with them thar google bullets tyrone ast me fer. Yessir guess I'll go pick me up some ribs and sweet yams while that thar slothrop gal kicks her google machine and tries to find me some more left wing info about sometin else that may be a threat to us. Kind peed all over that thar global warming conspiracy thang.....yes sir. We had us some global warmin bout 50 years ago but dang thing jest somehow went away all by its lonesome. I know Tyrone Susie why don't ya start one of them thar global cooling theories. And while your at it why not do some of that thar google searching and learn a little bit bout global weather patterns before you open your mouth again. ....Yee Haaaaw riding off in the sunset with global warming jerky in my saddle bags....

Here ya go tiegal,

analyze this:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/


By the way, you are very misinformed about just about everything, no surprise.

 

[tieguy]

Here ya go tiegal,

analyze this:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/


By the way, you are very misinformed about just about everything, no surprise.

pretty graphics susan. Your analysis of the data?

 

[tieguy]

I can see you're going to struggle with this subject so let me help you out a little with this posting by an environmental scientist.

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,Helv][SIZE=+2]Interest in Kyoto Cools [/SIZE][/FONT]
Gilles Rheaume, vice-president of policy for the Conference Board of Canada warns of serious problems to come in the Kyoto saga if the federal government doesn't make a fundamental change in how they approach treaty negotiations (Lack of Focus on Kyoto Makes Long-Term Commitments Tough, April 29). But the change required is not one Mr. Rheaume appears to have in mind when he alerts us to the likelihood of "stricter targets for a longer time period" in the next round of Kyoto negotiations.
As everyone in the Bush administration knows, warming in the next 100 years is likely to mirror what has happened since 1970. At this time, the coldest air of Siberia and northwestern Canada began a disproportionate warming -- a hallmark greenhouse signal. The central tendency of all of our climate models is to produce a constant (not a "runaway") warming once this starts.
We therefore know the rate and it is modest: 1.6C in this century. Other (solar) warming also occurred in the last century. During the 0.8C of warming from 1900 to 2000, crop yields quintupled, lifespan doubled and wealth was democratized beyond anyone's dreams. Further, the Bush administration knows, and all Canadians should know, that the Kyoto Protocol, while enormously expensive, with U.S. participation, would stop only 0.07(C) of warming in the next half-century, an amount too small to be reliably measured.
Rather than turn Canada inside out trying to meet Kyoto's draconian greenhouse gas reduction targets, Environment Minister David Anderson should finally admit what non-governmental climate scientists have been telling him for years: Global warming is an overblown issue. The paradigm shift Canada needs to make regarding Kyoto is simply to withdraw from an ineffectual treaty that won't stop a problem that isn't real.
Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, Professor of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia
From letter to thte editor in the National Post:

 

[tieguy]

here is a great link that debunks much of what the radical environmentalist have been screaming about including global warming:

http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=718860

One section of this I found particularly compelling:

Fourth, pollution is also exaggerated. Many analyses show that air pollution diminishes when a society becomes rich enough to be able to afford to be concerned about the environment. For London, the city for which the best data are available, air pollution peaked around 1890 (see chart 2). Today, the air is cleaner than it has been since 1585. There is good reason to believe that this general picture holds true for all developed countries. And, although air pollution is increasing in many developing countries, they are merely replicating the development of the industrialised countries. When they grow sufficiently rich they, too, will start to reduce their air pollution.

All this contradicts the litany. Yet opinion polls suggest that many people, in the rich world, at least, nurture the belief that environmental standards are declining.

 

[tieguy]

Susan ,

I should also point out the information above came from one of your own a former left leaning greenpeace nut who changed his opinion after studying the issue in detail.

I think at this point I have supported my original point that the jury is still out on global warming.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

tiegay(see, I can ridicule nicknames too),

My analysis is that the damn temperature is rising. A blind man could see that.

You can post all the anomalies you wish as far a temps or wages, but it is a long term average that really shows the trends. I got news for your ignorant self, temps is risin' wages is fallin'.




PS---I don't know who 'Susan' is, but if it makes you feel happy, continue to call me whatever you like (Slothmore, Susan...whatever) and I'll call you whatever I like. I'll be glad to meet you anytime and clear up any misunderstandings or preconceived notions you may have. Just make it somewhere warm; I'm retired, and prefer warm, sunny locations.

 

[tieguy]

Are you actually now going to try to debunk the analysis of two prominent scientist with your own opinion? And all you have for proof is you know the temperature is rising. Sigh. I hope your better at cooking ribs and yams then you are at logically arguing your liberal agenda.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Susan ,

I should also point out the information above came from one of your own a former left leaning greenpeace nut who changed his opinion after studying the issue in detail.

I think at this point I have supported my original point that the jury is still out on global warming.

Figures you would use him, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjorn_Lomborg, for your rebuttal:
After the publication of The Skeptical Environmentalist, Lomborg was accused of scientific misconduct. Several environmental scientists brought a total of three complaints against Lomborg to the Danish Committees on Scientific Dishonesty (DCSD), a body under Denmark's Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation. The charges claimed that The Skeptical Environmentalist contained deliberately misleading data and flawed conclusions. Due to the similarity of the complaints, the DCSD decided to proceed on the three cases under one investigation.
On January 6, 2003 the DCSD reached a decision in the complaints. The ruling was a mixed message, finding the book constituted scientific dishonesty, but Lomborg himself not guilty by virtue of lack of expertise in the fields in question.

My God, you are a piece, tiegay.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Are you actually now going to try to debunk the analysis of two prominent scientist with your own opinion? And all you have for proof is you know the temperature is rising. Sigh. I hope your better at cooking ribs and yams then you are at logically arguing your liberal agenda.

Damn facts always in the way. Yams are not sweet potatoes, Ms No-nothing.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

tie,

I really think you should lay off for awhile, take a nap and come back when you're sober. Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions, but I have a hard time believing that a lucid person could come up with the crap you do. Really...Lomborg? That's the best you have? He may be a drinking buddy of yours, but I don't think he trumps NASA.

Sleep it off, watch some football tomorrow, come back Monday well rested and clear headed.

 

[moreluck]

More Than I Ever Wanted To Know About Yams & Sweet Potatoes.......

Most people think that yams and sweet potatoes are the same thing....Thats incorrect.

It is possible to make an enormous fuss over the difference between sweet potatoes and yams. Botanically speaking, the two vegetables share nothing except for some flowery associations. The yam, a tuber, is a member of the lily family, while the sweet potato is a member of the morning glory family. Yams are usually sweeter, moister, plumper, denser, and a deeper orange color than sweet potatoes -- though not always. The two plants also come from different parts of the world. The yam probably originated in Africa (although it may be the same plant that had been cultivated in Asia since 8000 B.C.); the sweet potato is a New World plant discovered by Columbus (although it may have mysteriously traveled to Polynesia hundreds of years prior to Columbus's first voyage). Slaves in the American South called the sweet potato nyamis because of its similarity to a vegetable of that name that they knew from their homeland. This African word brought the two vegetables together, probably for all eternity, despite botany, archaeology, plant pathology, and the like. And that's probably just as well.