To all those who want to vote YES on the proposed contract...

[1timepu]

Your 3rd post...congrats!!

Did you register to add your opinions to a growing and thriving website about UPS or to make a statement about how to vote NO because it's your religous duty??

Had the pension issue been resolved 10 years ago we'd be in much better shape now..Instead we had a union leader, Ron Carey with a chip on his shoulder and it's even more screwed up.

NICE!

I am convinced to stop arguing with them, they either work for Fedex, DHL or USPS and posting on here, they talk like they don't know anything

 

[1timepu]

Maybe I'm naive here, but I don't believe the company will be fined. It seems like the ultimate outcome if this is not settled soon would be that UPS would have to increase contributions OR CS would have to be restructured to reduce the payouts and bring them in line with the cash flow.

Actually UPS will be locked into the CS and would have to reduce the benefits to keep it afloat

 

[Braveheart]

blue efficacy,

What makes you think the next offer would be better. What if the cost to UPS to get out of CS goes up to 8 billion, do you really think your going to get more?

It doesn't sound to me that the teamsters are doing a good job explaining the nuts and bolts or the importance of saving this pension fund.

The problem you have is that 43,000 of the total are the ones having their futures saved. If you want to throw them under the bus for the rest of their lives go ahead and vote no. The Union was in a very bad bargaining position in this negotiations. You can argue all you want about who's to blame but the reality is you are paying for the miss guidance you recieved from Ron Carey when he put everyone out on strike. The company new two contracts ago that this was heading to this point sometime soon. Let's fix it and hope for better deals down the road.

Remember the big fish always eats the little ones

You forget that before the strike they said last, best, and final. And what do you know , they amazingly came up with more money, better language for the workers, part timers and full timers both. Besides what we are saying is that there are no guarantees with giant companies like UPS. They will find away to stick it ot us just like when they shifted the EAMs to part timers, cut routes while tricking full time drivers into taking a day off and then laid off the cover drivers too so they could use helpers on golf carts, refuse to promote part timers even after full timers quit and instead are replaced with cover drivers!!!

They will try every single way they can find to short the employees.

 

[Braveheart]

I wonder with some of the people who seem to be wearing blinders if they are in management or scabs!!! Some of us either are stewards or were stewards, and maybe we know what negative crap happens to innocent people. Maybe we know a little more about how important contract language is and how even if they were offering $2 per year raises we would vote no due to the pandoras box of insane contract language being added to this contract.

I have seen the most inhumane things done and said to employees. What will it take for you blinder yes votes to see the truth. Will it be when they take away a vacation from us, when they take away your job, end all route bidding and put you where they want, subcontract all new feeder routes so that you are stuck in package forever, wait until just before retirement and find out UPS has switched to an awful HMO from hell for the retirees?????? Maybe it is when they say no more shorts, or only one driver per loop off in any one week for vacation, or the elimination of all the combo jobs!

 

[Griff]

If you think a "no" vote will not lose us volume, then you need to get someone else to do your thinking for you. Our shippers couldn't care less about your pay, retirement or anything else. They want to know their pkgs will get to their customers. If we give them a reason to think we can't do it they are gone. This is a new environment and I am glad the negotiators recognise the situation. Don't cut off your own nose.....

Yes, so we should all just bend over and vote yes because UPS might lose some volume...I don't think so. I don't care about stock holders or volume, other people at UPS get paid handsomely to deal with those issues. UPS has been conditioning us for over a year now for this vote by telling us every single day about volume being down. This isn't a strike vote and I doubt it will make many headlines if it gets voted down. Anyone who reads this contract through and doesn't see more than a handful of red flags needs to get their eyes checked ASAP.

I will not change my no vote until there is serious heavy-duty language on subcontracting and excessive OJS/harassment/intimidation. The entire section about discipline via technology needs to be removed as well. We have already seen what UPS is capable of with technology in their hands, now it's going to become a valid form of harassment.

 

[Tackleberry]

Your 3rd post...congrats!!

Did you register to add your opinions to a growing and thriving website about UPS or to make a statement about how to vote NO because it's your religous duty??

Had the pension issue been resolved 10 years ago we'd be in much better shape now..Instead we had a union leader, Ron Carey with a chip on his shoulder and it's even more screwed up.

NICE!

I mentioned nothing about religion, which has little place in UPS or the teamsters. I remember 10 years ago very well, UPS wanted to reduce the amount paid in retirement benefits by the amount an individual had saved in their 401k. That was not a good deal. If you still have that flyer they sent out read it again- it states that in black and white.

 

[Tackleberry]

I am convinced to stop arguing with them, they either work for Fedex, DHL or USPS and posting on here, they talk like they don't know anything

I guess we'll find out when the vote is in.

 

[LKLND3380]

blue efficacy,

What makes you think the next offer would be better. What if the cost to UPS to get out of CS goes up to 8 billion, do you really think your going to get more?

Does UPS really want another strike and have FedEx as well as DHL steal more customers?

If the contract is not signed in January Fed Ex may start the wheels turning and then you will see UPS shipmenst start to drop.

When June comes around and there is no contract Fed Ex will start approaching UPS customers and reminding them about the last strike. UPS stock prices will start to get shakey as the strike date draws near and customes start shiping with alternate companies.

I think UPS will give more because they stand to loose a lot more if this contract is not resolved by the end of spring...

Eskew is bailing out at a good time...

 

[1989]

How much does everyone get paid? I'm not talking about just wages, I'm talking about wages, health dental vision, pension, legal services, 10% stock discount, sales leads, that's a lot of dough. (Plus UPS pays the parking ticket I was getting 3 a week at you point)

 

[Steward773]

Im trying to stay impartial here and understand both sides of the arguement (since it's my job). I can understand how it's appealing to have 25, 30 and out at any age if I was about to retire and didn't care about the raises. I also know that if teamsters 25 years ago didn't care about raising the starting rate for part timers, or giving my family healthcare in the first 18 months of employment, etc. I wouldn't be out there safely, and efficiently making money for this company. Is there a solution that will solve all the problems....NO. But lets try and remember that we are a union, we need to stick together and not be selfish to achieve a goal that will benefit all of us. Then again after 30 years of being treated like a machine and pounded into the pavement.....I kind of understand the selfishness.

 

[Damok]

blue efficacy,

The Union was in a very bad bargaining position in this negotiations. You can argue all you want about who's to blame but the reality is you are paying for the miss guidance you recieved from Ron Carey when he put everyone out on strike. The company new two contracts ago that this was heading to this point sometime soon. Let's fix it and hope for better deals down the road.

Remember the big fish always eats the little ones

As ugly a truth as this is I happen to agree. I may end up being proven wrong but I think this contract, while certainly not the best or ideal, is going to go through and we will be in a better bargaining position down the road. I also understand that most folks don't like the idea of "down the road" but.... /shrug. I guess I'm willing to settle for a middling contract right now - one that I don't think will get better if it gets voted down - knowing (cautious optimism) we'll be in a better position next time due to a more stable pension allowing for negotiations to focus on wages and better language.

 

[justsayno]

When you buy a car do you accept the first offer the sales manager gives you or do you negociate. If you think for on minute UPS doesn't have a second offer already created, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell. Just say no.

 

[DiadDude]

When you buy a car do you accept the first offer the sales manager gives you or do you negociate. If you think for on minute UPS doesn't have a second offer already created, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell. Just say no.

You forget that the union has already answered no to several offers on your behalf.

 

[BUSCRUNCHER]

If you think a "no" vote will not lose us volume, then you need to get someone else to do your thinking for you. Our shippers couldn't care less about your pay, retirement or anything else. They want to know their pkgs will get to their customers. If we give them a reason to think we can't do it they are gone. This is a new environment and I am glad the negotiators recognise the situation. Don't cut off your own nose.....

Well i see someone here is more worried about what is good for themselves than what is good for the whole. VOTE NO

 

[BUSCRUNCHER]

As ugly a truth as this is I happen to agree. I may end up being proven wrong but I think this contract, while certainly not the best or ideal, is going to go through and we will be in a better bargaining position down the road. I also understand that most folks don't like the idea of "down the road" but.... /shrug. I guess I'm willing to settle for a middling contract right now - one that I don't think will get better if it gets voted down - knowing (cautious optimism) we'll be in a better position next time due to a more stable pension allowing for negotiations to focus on wages and better language.

Well I can see why this deal might go through look at the SORRY ATTITUDE you have about it. For some reason i get the impression that you wont even vote. So why dont dont you turn in your ID and do the old CLEAR IN and CLEAR OUT through the back gate. Sorry excuse for a Union Brother

 

[BUSCRUNCHER]

Your 3rd post...congrats!!

Did you register to add your opinions to a growing and thriving website about UPS or to make a statement about how to vote NO because it's your religous duty??

Had the pension issue been resolved 10 years ago we'd be in much better shape now..Instead we had a union leader, Ron Carey with a chip on his shoulder and it's even more screwed up.

NICE!

Now I see the more post you have the more informed you are. NOT you are such a {censored}

{post edited by Cheryl - Personal attacks and profanity are both violations of our TOS}

 

[mathematics]

If you think a "no" vote will not lose us volume, then you need to get someone else to do your thinking for you. Our shippers couldn't care less about your pay, retirement or anything else. They want to know their pkgs will get to their customers. If we give them a reason to think we can't do it they are gone. This is a new environment and I am glad the negotiators recognise the situation. Don't cut off your own nose.....

and i'm willing to bet that FedEX is planning on increasing capcity. more than likely they will be able to handle extra volume from UPS contract problems

 

[Brown Dog]

I think this is not a good contract and should go back to the bargaining table for several reasons. 8hr requests have been weakened because you must submit 5days in advance instead of 2. That's only 2 days a month you can plan on being at a kids soccer, baseball, or dance recital. Also if they fail to get you your 8hr req, you get 2 hours pay-It's not about money, it's about TWO days in the month when you see your kids at a function! The pay raises, as meager as they are, can be reduced by 35cents every year of contract for health and welfare-you can count on that. UPS plans to raise retirees health benefits by up to 300%( 50 to 150) That will happen after we agree to the contract that DOES NOT improve our pension or healthcare. The 9.5 has not been addressed positvely, you know how filing a grievance over 9.5 didn't change anything in the last contract, it will be just as difficult or more so now with the results being the same-over 9.5 will be the norm. If worse comes to worse and this contract gets voted in, we'll survive, we make a good buck but I think it doesn't make us better off, I think we lose much more than we gain. Actually I don't know what we gain except to keep our jobs and a chance at a pension. But with UPS making over 1 BILLION in profit every QUARTER(3 months) I think we deserve a little better in working conditions (NOT constant over 9.5) some small increase in our pension since we haven't got one for the last 2 contracts and this will be the 3rd, and I personally think we should be able to take our option week of vacation as days as to accomodate more time to make family functions, including funerals of not just family but lifelong friends.

 

[Damok]

Well I can see why this deal might go through look at the SORRY ATTITUDE you have about it. For some reason i get the impression that you wont even vote. So why dont dont you turn in your ID and do the old CLEAR IN and CLEAR OUT through the back gate. Sorry excuse for a Union Brother

I actually laughed and spit out a bit of my coffee, thanks for that

*edited for spelling*

 

[Damok]

I think with the priorities that were given to the negotiating committee a lot of the issues raised are somewhat moot. Pensions were to be at the forefront and given the sorry state of CS I'm not sure what further negotiations will give us with regard to what the members voiced as the most important issues to them. Take this with a grain of salt as I don't claim to be a master negotiator.