Torture

[superballs63]

Are you volunteering to undergo that which shall not be called torture?

Are you volunteering to be a victim in the next big terror attack?

See, it doesn't answer anything......just sounds stupid.

Starving people to death, beheading, crucifixion, watching your family be murdered in front of your very eyes, THAT is torture. No sleep and loud music is annoying, but it's hardly torture. But, full disclosure here....I don't give a rats hairy behind.

If the CIA had rounded up the families of the Gitmo detainees and executed them in front of them, I would have been perfectly fine with that.

I go back to a line in the movie Swordfish, where John Travolta's character is describing counter terrorism, saying

"They bomb a church, we bomb a rown. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. The goal is to make terrorism so horrific, that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans"

I agree with that

 

[The Other Side]

Maybe I missed it but I don't remember TOS offering any viable options for obtaining information from our enemy.

Maybe all our troops could carry picnic baskets, complete with blankets, so to prepare a cozy, friendly "picnic" atmosphere to nurture the exchange of intel or;

maybe give the enemy free cell phones, free cars, free food stamps and nice "high rise" apartments to live in.

What do you think?

Bad wars, good warriors.

The german citizens agreed with your positions during WWII. They too believed that Adolph Hitler could do no wrong as he persecuted the jews without interference from the citizenship.

They were told that the homeland was under threat by the jews, they were told the homeland was under threat from the west and the east. With that being repeatedly said, the german populace gave Adolph Hitler the green light to commit attrocities all across the world.

During the Bush administration, the same was said.

The result?

Exactly the same. A condemning of an entire race/religion of people, an elimination of those people right or wrong, the taking of the dignity of human beings on a false premise.

Hitler tortured many people, many of them jews under the premise that it was protecting the "homeland" or "saving lives".

In the end, he saved nothing. He caused the destruction of his own country.

"WE" are doing the same when we say torture is ok because it protects the "homeland" or "saves lives".

Its clear from the extensive report that the torture that was conducted didnt save lives or blow the lid off of future attacks. Its also clear that stories floated by the CIA and the BUSH administration were false or flat out lies.

You people are no different than the german people.

Led to an opinion of falsehood by a political party no different than the germans. War first, people second.

You are all absent of humanity, something Ronald Reagan tried to teach us.

Just like the german people, if we continue being the animals of the planet, we will surely insure our own doom.

TOS.

 

[The Other Side]

Are you volunteering to be a victim in the next big terror attack?

See, it doesn't answer anything......just sounds stupid.

Starving people to death, beheading, crucifixion, watching your family be murdered in front of your very eyes, THAT is torture. No sleep and loud music is annoying, but it's hardly torture. But, full disclosure here....I don't give a rats hairy behind.

If the CIA had rounded up the families of the Gitmo detainees and executed them in front of them, I would have been perfectly fine with that.

I go back to a line in the movie Swordfish, where John Travolta's character is describing counter terrorism, saying

"They bomb a church, we bomb a rown. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourists, we tactically nuke an entire city. The goal is to make terrorism so horrific, that it becomes unthinkable to attack Americans"

I agree with that

Glad to see you get your humanity from a movie.

TOS.

 

[The Other Side]

ah, so my reading of my Grandfathers "debriefing" tells you I don't have the first clue of what I'm talking about????

dude, please go play in traffic

Dr brown, you are clueless.

Regardless of what you are reading, this isnt the korean war era anymore.

Try living in the 21st century.

TOS.

 

[PT Car Washer]

The UCMJ prohibits the mistreatment of enemy prisoners because we do not want our captured soldiers to be mistreated. The United States as the most powerful country in the world has to hold the higher moral ground just because of the immense destructive power we hold over the rest of the world.

 

[The Other Side]

The UCMJ prohibits the mistreatment of enemy prisoners because we do not want our captured soldiers to be mistreated. The United States as the most powerful country in the world has to hold the higher moral ground just because of the immense destructive power we hold over the rest of the world.

Exactly.

TOS.

 

[Sportello]

But how many of his fellow soldiers lives did he save with the intel derived from this encounter?

Alot went on during the Vietnam war that no one knows about because people could keep their mouth shut.

Bad wars, good warriors.

No lives were saved, nothing of any use was gained. We lost that war, we're losing this one, too. All torture does is reduce the humanity of the torturer.

FYI, people did not keep their mouths shut after Vietnam, we just choose to ignore the crimes. Torture is a crime, rationalize it any way you wish, but it's a crime.

 

[Sportello]

But how many of his fellow soldiers lives did he save with the intel derived from this encounter?

Alot went on during the Vietnam war that no one knows about because people could keep their mouth shut.

Bad wars, good warriors.

Also 'encounter', is that what you call torture? Note the sadistic look on the two visible faces. May they rot in Hell.

 

[trickpony1]

The UCMJ prohibits the mistreatment of enemy prisoners because we do not want our captured soldiers to be mistreated.

We saw how well this worked in WW2, Korea and Vietnam.......

 

[superballs63]

Glad to see you get your humanity from a movie.

TOS.

Haha, didn't get it from there, but sure as hell do agree with it. I'll give you an example.

The radical muslim who beheaded his co-worker, you respknd by blowing up the local mosque. Isis beheads Americans, you behead their entire families. It's us vs. them gentlemen, they know that....we need to as well

 

[Rainman]

It turns out, torture is the least effective way to gain information.

But, you know, yay torture!

Clowns.

So, how do we do it? Provide an alternative please.

 

[Rainman]

Dr brown, you are clueless.

Regardless of what you are reading, this isnt the korean war era anymore.

Try living in the 21st century.

TOS.

Technology changes, but human nature remains the same. Study history and you will find out that is true.

 

[wayfair]

Dr brown, you are clueless.

Regardless of what you are reading, this isnt the korean war era anymore.

Try living in the 21st century.

TOS.

you are clueless, until you actually see what has been done... I'd like to hear that statement

 

[Rainman]

Hey, pal...if you're going to try to hurt my feelings, at least now how the friend to spell.

I'm immature and "misinformed" because I am perfectly fine with these animals being tortured? If that's your definition, then ok...I am immature and misinformed.

But this whole "resident racist" is a damn joke. Any white person who uses the N word is racist, huh? How then about your hero Jesse Jackson with his "hymietown" remark? Seems a bit racist/anti-Semitic, but let's give that hater a platform from which to speak on how to treat people?

My a**

I guess he wants to label you with the label that he has earned for himself. I don't know of anyone who has made more racist remarks than TOS himself.

 

[wayfair]

Technology changes, but human nature remains the same. Study history and you will find out that is true.

he can't .... he's afraid of history

 

[UPSJedi2112]

The german citizens agreed with your positions during WWII. They too believed that Adolph Hitler could do no wrong as he persecuted the jews without interference from the citizenship.

They were told that the homeland was under threat by the jews, they were told the homeland was under threat from the west and the east. With that being repeatedly said, the german populace gave Adolph Hitler the green light to commit attrocities all across the world.

During the Bush administration, the same was said.

The result?

Exactly the same. A condemning of an entire race/religion of people, an elimination of those people right or wrong, the taking of the dignity of human beings on a false premise.

Hitler tortured many people, many of them jews under the premise that it was protecting the "homeland" or "saving lives".

In the end, he saved nothing. He caused the destruction of his own country.

"WE" are doing the same when we say torture is ok because it protects the "homeland" or "saves lives".

Its clear from the extensive report that the torture that was conducted didnt save lives or blow the lid off of future attacks. Its also clear that stories floated by the CIA and the BUSH administration were false or flat out lies.

You people are no different than the german people.

Led to an opinion of falsehood by a political party no different than the germans. War first, people second.

You are all absent of humanity, something Ronald Reagan tried to teach us.

Just like the german people, if we continue being the animals of the planet, we will surely insure our own doom.

TOS.

The German people didn't believe Hitler could do no wrong. They voted in a socialist (sound familiar?), and when he consolidated his power, the people knew that if they didn't get with the program that they'd be the next ones on a train to a big oven or shower.

 

[realbrown1]

Dr brown, you are clueless.

Regardless of what you are reading, this isnt the korean war era anymore.

Try living in the 21st century.

TOS.

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

 

[moreluck]

 

[Nimnim]

During the American Revolution George Washington became aware of the conditions the British were keeping prisoners and pretty much laid down an ultimatum. Improve the conditions, or we'll lower our conditions for the prisoners we have to yours.

In a more modern sense, waterboarding for interrogation of a prisoner, vs beheading a prisoner on camera to release for further terror. Regardless of what I feel about torture or perceived torture, I'm not inclined to say what we've done to prisoners is worse than what has been done to prisoners by them.

We can argue if any of it is right or moral, but I'm hard pressed to say we're on their level. Perhaps a higher moral ground and all. . .

 

[Babagounj]

.

Try living in the 21st century.

TOS.

I double dare you to say that to any muslim terrorist .