Union Activity 101

[Fredless]

Can we not turn this thread into a pissing contest, please? I meant it to help people who don't really know what to do in certain situations.

Rocky, you made your point, he made his and I made mine. He disagrees with writing statements, as do I. So lets just move on as both sides have been presented. I don't think some random person is going to take either side of this as gospel, and hopefully they can make an informed choice now that both sides have been shown.

 

[RockyRogue]

Rocky, you made your point, he made his and I made mine. He disagrees with writing statements, as do I. So lets just move on as both sides have been presented.

Sure, Fredless. I'll step back. I answered his post because I didn't like the way he came at me, insinuating that my MORALS should take a backseat to a 'brotherhood.' Uh-uh...NOT HAPPENING!! However, I made my point, as have the others. P*ssing contests are the last thing the 'Cafe needs! -Rocky

 

[diesel96]

OATH to the Teamsters to protect each other from harm and to never violate the sanctity of brotherhood.
Is this the same oath our leadership took when they were pilfering our pension fund ?

As an "Officer" of the local, I would first summon you to the local to face the executive board and explain your actions, then after giving you the time to express your moral highground, I would motion the board to first fine you one days pay for every week the terminated brother was out of his job, then if the term was upheld in arbitration, and the company called you in as a witness to testify against your teamster brother, I would then motion the board to pull your union card and send you packing.
Hey, the 1970's called..they want there bellbottums and polyester suits back. You forgot to mention breaking his knee caps.

I'm the PM steward for my hub for the part timers, so bear with me here too. I don't know all the 9.5 language, doesn't apply to me or the members I represent the majority of the time.

Q1: My steward is a piece of crap why won't he/she do anything, I really want to file a grievance!?

A1: Hold on one second. I know at my building, I have a small amount of cry babies and they're usually older and haven't been employed that long. Don't think for ONE SECOND that just because you are going to the steward, that he/she can wave their magical steward hand and get you off the hook for anything. We ARE NOT Gods! If you REALLY think you are being shoved off, DON'T GO CRYING ABOUT HOW CRAPPY YOU
THINK you are being treated, go to another steward or someone whose been here for awhile and see what they think. Most of the time you will be told that's how it is. If you don't get any further, work your way up the ladder, contact the Business Agent for UPS at your local, most of the time communication errors can be solved in a 5 minute phone call. Talk trash about the steward and see who you go crying to when they try to suspend you for petty misloads. Point - be careful who you burn bridges with. If you REALLY think you could do better, try and put yourself in the stewards shoes. We don't get paid extra for being a baby sitter, yet we get yelled at for everyone and have to get you off the hook for EVERYTHING.

Q2:Why does that punk ass kid who still has a good back get to leave before me or why does that punk kid able to take the over time from me? Shouldn't they respect my age and the fact that I have a family?

A2:Seniority PREVAILS. THATS HOW IT IS, BAR NONE NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Just because this punk 22-23 year old kid is going home before you on a Friday night and you are sent to the bulks to load iregs. and you think you should go home first because you are older, etc..DOESN'T FLY. That punk kid has been here longer than you, probably since he/she was in high school and has about 4 years of seniority (which is a decent amount for the PM shift at my hub). The union creates everyone as EQUAL, or at least thats the idea. Weather or not thats enforced, or true..well you be the judge but nothing is perfect. Anyway, I went through the SAME orientation everyone else SHOULD HAVE went through. I was TOLD I HAD to lift up to 70 pounds BY MYSELF continuously!! That applies to ALL jobs folks. Don't think because you bid out of reload to a clerk or car wash job doesn't mean you won't ever have to touch a package again.

To the older people looking for benefits, this is NOT an easy job. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH SENIORITY BEING EVERYTHING, GO INTO MANAGEMENT OR SEEK EMPLOYMENT ELSEWHERE!! I cannot make that more clear. Do NOT come crying to me that its hard on your 40+ year old body to unload trucks for longer than some kid. If the kid has seniority on you, and they say who wants to go home first, and he says he wants to go AND has seniority - sorry pops, get your ass back in the trailer. As a steward, I cannot wave my magical stewards hand to get you out of work to violates someone seniority. My best advice to this is to befriend your senior employees in your area and say "hey i've got a bad back ache thats been going on for days, you mind if I can go home first tonight?" MOST of the time, they will help you out. I know I do when our junior clerk wants to go home early for family reasons etc. She just asks, "hey my aunt so and so is in town, can I go home early for the next few days?" 99% of the time I say yes, unless I have some exam the next morning for class. ITS THAT SIMPLE FOLKS

Q3: My supervisor was a jerk off to me last week, so now I want to file on him to get him back

A3:Great, now you get shown that because you were "cool" with your sup and he sent you down the river, now you'll enforce the contract? I hate these "vengeance" greivances.

Fredless, studying the text of the contract is only one aspect of becoming an experienced and effective shop steward. Applying open communication, understanding and patience of not only your fellow inexperienced P/T Union members but of mngmt as well can help you settle discrepancies before they morph into personal conflicts and or grievances. Simply observing your fustrations in your writings ironically refering to your "brotherhood" as "40 yr old cry babies" for example, then, threatening you better not talk trash about the shop steward or burn any bridges is not IMO a very business like approach of representing your Local. The title "shop steward" should not be treated as a powertrip, and doesn't elevate one to a higher platform. Why take on the job of "babysitting" if you feel the need to vent a 750 word diary/essay on how to act and file a grievance for events that occur in your center?

 

[Fredless]

LOL ahh the feelings that get hurt on an internet message board.

Wasn't intended the way you took it, sorry you took offense to it or you think I'm on a power trip. Based on your post, diesel, looks like you think I'm a powertripping ass who wrote a vent essay...

My words aren't gospel, yours aren't gospel. People can take what they want from this. I'm just posting my personal experiences and how discipline can be resoloved. Its the members responsibility to do what they wish.

I like how you pick and chose to make a big deal out of some things I typed, and missed the entire point of the post - which was to address some FREQUENTLY POSTED THREADS on this message board. I ENCOURAGED other input on it.

Secondly, good job at figuring out the quote system - well at least somewhat better than this thread and you didn't totally contradict yourself this time:
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/young-drivers.111357/

OATH to the Teamsters to protect each other from harm and to never violate the sanctity of brotherhood.
Is this the same oath our leadership took when they were pilfering our pension fund ?

As an "Officer" of the local, I would first summon you to the local to face the executive board and explain your actions, then after giving you the time to express your moral highground, I would motion the board to first fine you one days pay for every week the terminated brother was out of his job, then if the term was upheld in arbitration, and the company called you in as a witness to testify against your teamster brother, I would then motion the board to pull your union card and send you packing.
Hey, the 1970's called..they want there bellbottums and polyester suits back. You forgot to mention breaking his knee caps.

Great...keep trying to get me to believe anything you say, especially like you poked at me in the other thread that I'm some 22 year old idiot (just based on my age alone) by making comments like that. Keep it up brother.

 

[speedbug]

LOL ahh the feelings that get hurt on an internet message board.

Wasn't intended the way you took it, sorry you took offense to it or you think I'm on a power trip. Based on your post, diesel, looks like you think I'm a powertripping ass who wrote a vent essay...

My words aren't gospel, yours aren't gospel. People can take what they want from this. I'm just posting my personal experiences and how discipline can be resoloved. Its the members responsibility to do what they wish.

I like how you pick and chose to make a big deal out of some things I typed, and missed the entire point of the post - which was to address some FREQUENTLY POSTED THREADS on this message board. I ENCOURAGED other input on it.

Secondly, good job at figuring out the quote system - well at least somewhat better than this thread and you didn't totally contradict yourself this time:

http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/young-drivers.111357/

Great...keep trying to get me to believe anything you say, especially like you poked at me in the other thread that I'm some 22 year old idiot (just based on my age alone) by making comments like that. Keep it up brother.

I love it when I hear someone say their "conscience " or their "moral value" can not let them do this or do that. Sounds like the excuse all the SCABS gave on why they crossed the picket line back in '97. If they really had a conscience and moral values they would stop freeloading off the dues paying members.

 

[BrownShark]

I love it when I hear someone say their "conscience " or their "moral value" can not let them do this or do that. Sounds like the excuse all the SCABS gave on why they crossed the picket line back in '97. If they really had a conscience and moral values they would stop freeloading off the dues paying members.

AMEN Brother!

 

[RockyRogue]

Sounds like the excuse all the SCABS gave on why they crossed the picket line back in '97.

In all honesty, if I were a Teamster in '97, I probably would have crossed. I was barely in my teens at the time but from what I've read, there were a lot of contradicting statements issued by Teamsters or justs outright silence on the reason(s) for the strike. I abhor lack of information. As such, I probably would have reported for work like any other day--eventually. It might have happened late in the strike but I probably would have reported eventually. IMHO. -Rocky

 

[Fredless]

I love it when I hear someone say their "conscience " or their "moral value" can not let them do this or do that. Sounds like the excuse all the SCABS gave on why they crossed the picket line back in '97. If they really had a conscience and moral values they would stop freeloading off the dues paying members.

Amen!!

 

[BrownShark]

In all honesty, if I were a Teamster in '97, I probably would have crossed. I was barely in my teens at the time but from what I've read, there were a lot of contradicting statements issued by Teamsters or justs outright silence on the reason(s) for the strike. I abhor lack of information. As such, I probably would have reported for work like any other day--eventually. It might have happened late in the strike but I probably would have reported eventually. IMHO. -Rocky

I think that your stated position really goes without repeatedly saying so.

Many like "you" did report, and like you, they no longer work for UPS.

Its a good thing that fellows like yourself find other things to keep yourself busy.

Whats funny however, is that you keep posting on a UPS board and you no longer work for the company? Why is that?1

Peace.

 

[RockyRogue]

Many like "you" did report, and like you, they no longer work for UPS. Its a good thing that fellows like yourself find other things to keep yourself busy.

Some of those like 'me' were fired, I'm sure. Some for legit reasons, others not so. Those most like 'me' left because they wanted out and found something else that fit their needs better--hours, etc. And by the way, I just GOT a job offer about two hours ago! I haven't thought twice about leaving UPS. I'm on the EXPRESS for the horizon. Are you?

Whats funny however, is that you keep posting on a UPS board and you no longer work for the company? Why is that?

You can find it funny if you want. I just happen to enjoy reading--most of--the people's posts on here and discussing relevant issues with them. Is there a problem with that? -Rocky

 

[diesel96]

LOL ahh the feelings that get hurt on an internet message board.

Wasn't intended the way you took it, sorry you took offense to it or you think I'm on a power trip. Based on your post, diesel, looks like you think I'm a powertripping ass who wrote a vent essay...

My words aren't gospel, yours aren't gospel. People can take what they want from this. I'm just posting my personal experiences and how discipline can be resoloved. Its the members responsibility to do what they wish.

I like how you pick and chose to make a big deal out of some things I typed, and missed the entire point of the post - which was to address some FREQUENTLY POSTED THREADS on this message board. I ENCOURAGED other input on it.

Secondly, good job at figuring out the quote system - well at least somewhat better than this thread and you didn't totally contradict yourself this time:

http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/young-drivers.111357/

Great...keep trying to get me to believe anything you say, especially like you poked at me in the other thread that I'm some 22 year old idiot (just based on my age alone) by making comments like that. Keep it up brother.

BROTHER Fredless....Coming from a realitive rookie your lack of respect towards "old timers" and inexperience part time employees who have limited amount of knowledge reguarding workplace policy simply need to be kept in check. AS a brash young Shop Steward, to be effective, when employee's have issue's they need to console to an individual who is approachable, won't take things personal and without a short fused temper. Who knows, maybe your more mild mannered at work, and your recent posts aimed at older and inexperienced employees are just a reflection of your inner feelings, whatever. Realize this however, there are many veterans here who have been union members since you were in diapers, gone thru a strike when you were 12, and have dealt with shop stewards and BA's thru the years. We know which ones to use and which ones to avoid. If you plan on a career here, continue working on being one of the stewards that useful. We could use a few good men. Don't take this as a shot, I do respect you for being a young guy and choosing to put yourself in a position of having to deal with workplace issues and uniformed employees. But lets do so humbly and with due diligense.

 

[Fredless]

Again, I think you're taking me way out of context.

If I was as brash and disprespectful as you say I am, I doubt the BA and steward before me would have appointed me. If anyone during the PM shift at my hub thinks they can do a better job than I, I more than welcome it.

I stepped up the plate because people ASKED me to (10+ year employees did). At times, this is a burden more than something of pride that often makes me wonder if I bit off more than I can chew right now, but I learn best when I'm thrown into the fire. It's because of those open-minded old timers in my building that have kept me going and given me the training I have. Its closed minded old timers that really piss me off. Like it or not, you're going to eventually move on and young, brash people like myself are going to be in your shoes.

 

[1989]

BROTHER Fredless....Coming from a realitive rookie your lack of respect towards "old timers" and inexperience part time employees who have limited amount of knowledge reguarding workplace policy simply need to be kept in check.

What do you mean by respect for old timers? Why do they need special treatment? Other than vacation and bidding, seniority doesn't mean a 20 year employee gets more than a 5 year employee.

 

[diesel96]

What do you mean by respect for old timers? Why do they need special treatment? Other than vacation and bidding, seniority doesn't mean a 20 year employee gets more than a 5 year employee.

Who mention special treatment1. I suggest you go back and re-read before putting words in my mouth. Besides, my parents raised me to have respect for my elders. How bout you?

BTW...Senority does get you more..e.g.;sched days off, job security in case of lay offs, unscheduled O/T work, Come in or go home earlier..etc

 

[Fredless]

Since I turned 18, I became an adult. I view other adults as such and judge accordingly to the person. I don't treat another adult just based on age, sorry diesel. I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer. Everyone is "grey" to me.

 

[area43]

Since I turned 18, I became an adult. I view other adults as such and judge accordingly to the person. I don't treat another adult just based on age, sorry diesel. I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer. Everyone is "grey" to me.

I have to disagree. Age will always warrant more respect from me. When I was in the Marine Corp there was a portion of our company that was older and more mature. Marines that had been there 15,20 or 25 years were greatly respected and not to be taken lightly. These older veterans were not given the grunt duties. Such as cleaning the heads(toilets) or taking out the trash. They were sanctified. Set apart. Honored veterans. The new guys such as myself did get some respect,but not as much as those guys.

Hey Fred. Try using that crap in a prison. LMAO Go tell that hardened 30 year criminal that he's no better or gets no more respect than that little newbie punk petafile. " Grey" area. Aahh Phooey. Its the "grey" area that causes all the problems. Nobody knows what the hell to do anymore. So Fred, your telling me that you would treat your mother the same way you treat your brother or sister. Hmmmm. What about strangers? Older strangers. How do you treat them compared to younger kids?

 

[Fredless]

Never been in prison, don't break the law besides speeding in my personal car so until the day comes when they start imprisoning me for doing 5mph over the speed limit, I won't have to worry about that. That analogy is irrelevant to me, along with the military one.

UPS is not a military institution, a family, or a prison...although it could be agreed on by most hourlies that management likes to run it as such. I don't see it that way, and never will.

Its the "grey" area that causes all the problems.

Did not mean it that way, everyone is grey to me because they are EQUAL to me until proven otherwise. Re-read my post:

I view other adults as such and judge accordingly to the person. I don't treat another adult just based on age, sorry diesel. I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer. Everyone is "grey" to me.

If they're an hourly that I have to represent, then they are for sure grey (aka equal) with everyone else and I'd fight just as hard for a one day employee than someone I've been working along side since my first day. I don't play favorites when it comes to representing hourly employees.

Nobody knows what the hell to do anymore.

That includes yourself now doesn't it...or just because you have seniority means you should be followed unquestionably? Look, this isn't the point of this thread. READ my disclaimer at the VERY first post of this thread.

So Fred, your telling me that you would treat your mother the same way you treat your brother or sister.

Explain to me how that releates to UPS as a workplace? Besides, wouldn't know. My sister died in 1997 because of a drunk driver and my brother in 2002 due to sorosis (sp?) of the liver. But, if they were both alive today, not treat the same (I'm certainly not going to go pound a few beers with my mom like I would my brother or sister), but respect the same, you bet. They are family. I don't know how yours functions, nor do I care, but none in my immediate family every did any wrong doing to me or my parents.

Hmmmm. What about strangers? Older strangers. How do you treat them compared to younger kids?

Again, explain how this is relevant to UPS? I'm concerned, primarily, with the part-timers during my shift. They really aren't strangers, and younger kids? Why is it your business how I treat younger kids outside of the work place?

But here, to both of you..heres a bone. You're right, I'll believe everything you say just because you have seniority.

 

[area43]

Since I turned 18, I became an adult. I view other adults as such and judge accordingly to the person. I don't treat another adult just based on age, sorry diesel. I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer. Everyone is "grey" to me.

Fred, I have read your #37 post. First I would like to give my deepest respects for the loss of your sister and brother. I pray that even as time has passed since their passing that you will find strength in God to carry on from day to day. I too have lost loved ones. At times it's not easy.

Second, my analogies were used as examples in reference to your quote,"I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer" Yes, I agree age/length of service shouldn't be the main contributing factor in representing an employee, but you must take that(length of service/respect) into consideration. I will give you some examples.

Recently a driver that has been with the company for 22 years was pulled in the office for not coding in his hour lunch(remember Ca lawsuit,87 million). The center manager to his credit let the driver off due to his length of service/respect of being a veteran.

Some years back a feeder driver had a roll away. Yes, folks. It wasn' t as bad as it sounds. The feeder driver had close to 30 years. Again, the center manager to his credit didn't count it against his safe driving. Not charged. Why? because of his Length of service/ respect of being a veteran.

I had a loader when I first started driving that was perfect(close to it,LOL). Yes folks there are those that are born to load. He had been at UPS for 10 years. One particular day he had an off area misload. The loader was pulled in the office. Again, he was let off the hook because of Length of service/respect of being a veteran.

A 15 year driver went down a tree branch infested country driveway and broke a mirror. Again, he was pulled in the office. To the center manager's credit he did not get charged with an accident. Why? because Length of service/respect of being a veteran.

Fred, my point is that If UPS management considers Length of service/respect so important than why can't you? I mean that in a respectful way. Not to go on a rabbit trail. Why do they give Length of service/respect awards? It does play a major role in the defense of the employee. Respect for the newbie employee is warranted, but greater respect for the veteran should be granted. Time and grade does have its advantages. Take care Area 43

 

[1989]

Fred, I have read your #37 post. First I would like to give my deepest respects for the loss of your sister and brother. I pray that even as time has passed since their passing that you will find strength in God to carry on from day to day. I too have lost loved ones. At times it's not easy.

Second, my analogies were used as examples in reference to your quote,"I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer" Yes, I agree age/length of service shouldn't be the main contributing factor in representing an employee, but you must take that(length of service/respect) into consideration. I will give you some examples.

Recently a driver that has been with the company for 22 years was pulled in the office for not coding in his hour lunch(remember Ca lawsuit,87 million). The center manager to his credit let the driver off due to his length of service/respect of being a veteran.

Some years back a feeder driver had a roll away. Yes, folks. It wasn' t as bad as it sounds. The feeder driver had close to 30 years. Again, the center manager to his credit didn't count it against his safe driving. Not charged. Why? because of his Length of service/ respect of being a veteran.

I had a loader when I first started driving that was perfect(close to it,LOL). Yes folks there are those that are born to load. He had been at UPS for 10 years. One particular day he had an off area misload. The loader was pulled in the office. Again, he was let off the hook because of Length of service/respect of being a veteran.

A 15 year driver went down a tree branch infested country driveway and broke a mirror. Again, he was pulled in the office. To the center manager's credit he did not get charged with an accident. Why? because Length of service/respect of being a veteran.

Fred, my point is that If UPS management considers Length of service/respect so important than why can't you? I mean that in a respectful way. Not to go on a rabbit trail. Why do they give Length of service/respect awards? It does play a major role in the defense of the employee. Respect for the newbie employee is warranted, but greater respect for the veteran should be granted. Time and grade does have its advantages. Take care Area 43

Area, with your examples, you are leaving out a few things. It's not just length of service the center manager is considering, but also their past record. The type of person they are, when was their last charged accident, etc....I saw a 28 year driver get fired for a first offense, all because the driver was an ass.

 

[diesel96]

Area, with your examples, you are leaving out a few things. It's not just length of service the center manager is considering, but also their past record. The type of person they are, when was their last charged accident, etc....I saw a 28 year driver get fired for a first offense, all because the driver was an ass.

Sounds more like the center manager is the ....Well, I shouldn't say that, he's just doing his job. But there are several cases of drivers with 1 or more accidents charged who have gotten their jobs back (even with injuries involved). I'm sure you can provide more substance to your example than just the driver being an .