Union Activity 101

[Fredless]

Area, with your examples, you are leaving out a few things. It's not just length of service the center manager is considering, but also their past record. The type of person they are, when was their last charged accident, etc....I saw a 28 year driver get fired for a first offense, all because the driver was an ass.

You hit the nail on the head. I thought I was being as clear as I possibly could in that everyone is grey to me about the people I have to represent. Again, WHY would I treat some 30+ year employee any differently than a first day employee? Thats very unethical.

You made valid points about how management may treat a vet..and I'd use that point in the office. Its a big deal if a 20+ year driver has spent his prime working life delivering boxes, versus a first year driver who still may have other options to start over again. But, thats managements judgement and I will NOT cross that line. I will continue to treat everyone equally as far as having to represent them regardless of time served.

Now, if it means grabbing a beer afterwork - thats what I meant personality wise...or even conversating with them at work. There are those I know I can trust and those I just say hi, whats up at work.

and thanks for the kind words about my siblings.

 

[tunemixer]

WOW !! What happened to the topic?

 

[Fredless]

WOW !! What happened to the topic?

lol I got suckered into pissing too.

 

[Scooter1]

All this talk reminds me of an ongoing problem we had in our hub with a hot headed union member. This guy felt he had the right of way whenever he drove in the hub. If another union member crossed his path he would yell out profanities and make threats. If this wasn't enough to intimidate the person into moving out of the way, he would try to run you over. Other times, this bully would swerve his vehicle into walking union members just to get reactions. I stress "union members" because he wouldn't dare to do this to management.

Several members after first going to the union and seeing no results, went to complain with human resources. Sure enough, those members were labled as "snitches" by this bully and his friends. There was even a 55 year old lady no taller than 4"11" that this guy tried to run over several times. The B.A. told everyone to recant their statements because if they didn't this guy would be fired and they would be fined for going against another union member. So this mess was never resolved and it kept on going on.

To make matters worse, he was even a company kiss ass and was well known to go partying and on vacations with supervisors.

To the Steward who started this post. I advise you to look at the whole picture before looking down at union members or questioning their loyalty when they come to you with a problem. Obviously, you are just in it for your own personal gains, not everything is black and white, wrong or right.

 

[Fredless]

To the Steward who started this post. I advise you to look at the whole picture before looking down at union members or questioning their loyalty when they come to you with a problem. Obviously, you are just in it for your own personal gains, not everything is black and white, wrong or right.

You could not be more wrong. What is it with people not understanding the grey comment, where I've posted like 5 times now means equality? Can you not read?

If you can tell me of the personal gains I'm in it for, I'd like to hear them. Please, tell me. I really honestly would like to know how I'm being compensated?

 

[area43]

Since I turned 18, I became an adult. I view other adults as such and judge accordingly to the person. I don't treat another adult just based on age, sorry diesel. I'll respect a 30+ year driver as much as a 1month part timer. Everyone is "grey" to me.

Again, I will refer to your original post that has created the concern on senority and RESPECT. In your paragraph you first say YOU JUDGE accodingly to the person, but then in the same breath you say you'll respect a 30 year employee as much as a 1 month part time. So how is that to be taken? When you judge an employee I assume you take into consideration certian qualities,actions or disputed actions of that individual. So, why don't you take senority of the employee into your JUDGEMENT criteria? How long have you worked for UPS? I ask this because when you have invested 20, 25, or 30 years of your life rather it be salary or hourly you hope you would have a little more respect than a 1 yr part timer. No disrespects to Pt. I was one for 2.7 years.

 

[area43]

Area, with your examples, you are leaving out a few things. It's not just length of service the center manager is considering, but also their past record. The type of person they are, when was their last charged accident, etc....I saw a 28 year driver get fired for a first offense, all because the driver was an ass.

Hi 89, First I want to say that in one of my earlier post on another thread I listed some examples of GOOD drivers gone Bad. Now, we all have good and bad in our lives, but when a good driver is fired for running over a dog on a private driveway. Or a good driver is fired for putting nicks on a driveway by his snow chains or ...........I could go on and on. Oh I almost forgot. There was this one driver many years ago that would always skip his lunch. Imagine that. LOL He did this for about 10 years. I know thats alot of OT, but he chose to do so. This particular driver blew out his knee on the job. The sups loved him when he was skipping his lunch all those years, but as soon as he blew out his knee they treated him like dirt. Jim Casey would have been proud of this mgt. team. The driver was out for a year. He(the driver) received no card, phone call or just a drive to his house and ask Hey, how are you doing? The driver was hurt by the calloused attitude of the Sups. No sympathy or concern.

89, I tell you this because that could have been what happened to that 28 yr driver you mentioned. In a sense UPS mgt created their own little monster and are NOW having to pay the price. Is that right of the driver to act that way? Can you keep beating a good dog down and expect him to stay down? Or is that dog going to come back and bite you in the face?

 

[area43]

You could not be more wrong. What is it with people not understanding the grey comment, where I've posted like 5 times now means equality? Can you not read?

If you can tell me of the personal gains I'm in it for, I'd like to hear them. Please, tell me. I really honestly would like to know how I'm being compensated?

Hi Freddy. One last question. In general if you were introduced to 2 drivers and were told one had 25 years of service and the other had 1 year. Not knowing any of their back ground. Would you in some odd way show a little MORE RESPECT for the one that had 25 years of service? Or would there still be that "GREY" area?

 

[Fredless]

Hi Freddy. One last question. In general if you were introduced to 2 drivers and were told one had 25 years of service and the other had 1 year. Not knowing any of their back ground. Would you in some odd way show a little MORE RESPECT for the one that had 25 years of service? Or would there still be that "GREY" area?

this is getting laughable...1989 seems to be the only one posting that can understand me.

How many more times do I have to re-state that I would fight for a 30+ year part timer (because I don't deal with drivers, I'm ignorant to that language and I'd turn it over to one of the many driver stewards but thats IRRELEVANT once again area 51), as I would for a 1 year part timer.

ITS UNETHICAL FOR A STEWARD TO PLAY FAVORITES! If you guys think that makes me a hot headed punk kid, or that I'm doing this for my personal gain (which is the biggest joke ever - I spend a lot of personal time outside of work on grievances and just talking to my members on the phone if they need it, so if anything this has COST me time and money), GET OVER IT. What don't you understand Area 51? You can't comprehend that I won't play favoritism based on seniority? NEVER.

 

[Fredless]

So, why don't you take senority of the employee into your JUDGEMENT criteria? How long have you worked for UPS? I ask this because when you have invested 20, 25, or 30 years of your life rather it be salary or hourly you hope you would have a little more respect than a 1 yr part timer. No disrespects to Pt. I was one for 2.7 years.

Judging on senority is on the same level as all blacks steal or all Islamic people are terrorists. Its judging people NOT on personality, but on seniority. That has NO bearing. However, I've had some people I'd never give the time of day to outside of work but if they hand me a greivance thats valid, I'm going to fight for that person just as hard as the guy whose been in the trenches with me since day one and we hang out, outside of work. I also have a day job that uses my degree I'm working towards, you think I have a union mentality? You bet your ass I don't because that'd get me fired right away. I'll explain that analogy since people really twisted my seniority and "grey" comments around so badly, I mean that I have an ethic outside of UPS - and I have a steward "game face" as well. I will not fight any less just because I don't really care for someone. Now if they want me to loan them money for a soda during break, or they want me to go the extra mile on something that isn't grieveable, yes, I'll judge people according to their personality then.

Or am I not getting you?

 

[1989]

Hi Freddy. One last question. In general if you were introduced to 2 drivers and were told one had 25 years of service and the other had 1 year. Not knowing any of their back ground. Would you in some odd way show a little MORE RESPECT for the one that had 25 years of service? Or would there still be that "GREY" area?

I would have more respect for the driver that does his job better. If I have to help one of them 8 out of 10 days, I would respect the other more. Unless of course I can see the one I'm helping is trying. Many of the drivers that need help everyday is because they are a piece of crap.

 

[area43]

this is getting laughable...1989 seems to be the only one posting that can understand me.

How many more times do I have to re-state that I would fight for a 30+ year part timer (because I don't deal with drivers, I'm ignorant to that language and I'd turn it over to one of the many driver stewards but thats IRRELEVANT once again area 51), as I would for a 1 year part timer.

ITS UNETHICAL FOR A STEWARD TO PLAY FAVORITES! If you guys think that makes me a hot headed punk kid, or that I'm doing this for my personal gain (which is the biggest joke ever - I spend a lot of personal time outside of work on grievances and just talking to my members on the phone if they need it, so if anything this has COST me time and money), GET OVER IT. What don't you understand Area 51? You can't comprehend that I won't play favoritism based on seniority? NEVER.

Dude!!!! Freddy. I am AREA 43. Thats not cool calling me Area 51. What are you trying to be - funny? Im trying to have a serious Q and A. Is that how you work? When you are losing the debate do you switch to insults and name calling? Freddy you said," When you turned 18 you became an adult". Well, Freddy in your so called DIVINE JUDGEMENT is that how an adult supposed to act? Is that how you treat the people you are supposed to help? Belittle them by name calling. Dont worry Freddy, Im a big boy. No feelings hurt here. Sticks and stones....... Nah Nah.

Anyhow, I notice your last line in your above post has the word "favoritism". At no time on this thread have I used or suggested using the word "favoritism". I guess that was just another bad JUDGEMENT error on your part. RESPECT, is the word I 've been trying to hammer home here. Take care area 43/not 51 ) : ) :

 

[diesel96]

I would have more respect for the driver that does his job better. If I have to help one of them 8 out of 10 days, I would respect the other more. Unless of course I can see the one I'm helping is trying. Many of the drivers that need help everyday is because they are a piece of crap.

Now , we all know there's "crap" employee's here and there and everywhere at every level, but look at it this way, perhaps some of these so called "crap" driver's dispatch maybe miss-time studied or over dispatched quite frequently and they are tired of it. Perhaps some of these "crap" drivers put more emphasis on quality rather than quantity, and safety and lessening wear and tear to their bodies. Ever ask yourself why mngmt is always asking super-human drivers like yourself to help other drivers? Imagine if they had no gung-ho early drivers to send out to help the crappy drivers ? Why on Earth would mngmt add more cars to the line up, or create more drivers jobs with speed demons such as thee.....God's gift of UPS Drivers available at a moments notice.

 

[1989]

Now , we all know there's "crap" employee's here and there and everywhere at every level, but look at it this way, perhaps some of these so called "crap" driver's dispatch maybe miss-time studied or over dispatched quite frequently and they are tired of it. Perhaps some of these "crap" drivers put more emphasis on quality rather than quantity, and safety and lessening wear and tear to their bodies. Ever ask yourself why mngmt is always asking super-human drivers like yourself to help other drivers? Imagine if they had no gung-ho early drivers to send out to help the crappy drivers ? Why on Earth would mngmt add more cars to the line up, or create more drivers jobs with speed demons such as thee.....God's gift of UPS Drivers available at a moments notice.

I'm only talking about the drivers that I've done their routes. So
it's not their time study. Some of these drivers have had lost time injuries. What exactly is quality when you are delivering boxes? Is it claims? Is it getting kicked out of places? A few drivers had to get their route changed because customers don't want them in their business.

 

[toonertoo]

On my Ohio rider to the central region supplemental tentative agrrement, the wages go, 8/1/08 28.45, 2/1/9 28.82, and then it shows 2/1/13 21.12, misprint? I tried to attach the doc but think I failed miserably.
Confirmed, I failed.

 

[tieguy]

Now , we all know there's "crap" employee's here and there and everywhere at every level, but look at it this way, perhaps some of these so called "crap" driver's dispatch maybe miss-time studied or over dispatched quite frequently and they are tired of it. {quote]

Those folks have found its easier to make excuses and blame someone else for their short comings.

 

[diesel96]

Now , we all know there's "crap" employee's here and there and everywhere at every level, but look at it this way, perhaps some of these so called "crap" driver's dispatch maybe miss-time studied or over dispatched quite frequently and they are tired of it. {quote]

Those folks have found its easier to make excuses and blame someone else for their short comings.

No doubt Tie and 1989 there are drivers as you describe.....However I became one of those "crappy drivers" years ago on a route I bid on in a growing area that wasn't timed studied for a decade. I did everything ask of me but run scratch. I ran a 120 overallowed with a supervisor with generally acceptable methods. After a while of animosity between mngmt and myself they finally called for a time study. A couple of weeks later the route loosen up 1hr. I went from zero to hero. So once in a while maybe you should listen to excuses because some may be valid.

 

[tieguy]

No doubt Tie and 1989 there are drivers as you describe.....However I became one of those "crappy drivers" years ago on a route I bid on in a growing area that wasn't timed studied for a decade. I did everything ask of me but run scratch. I ran a 120 overallowed with a supervisor with generally acceptable methods. After a while of animosity between mngmt and myself they finally called for a time study. A couple of weeks later the route loosen up 1hr. I went from zero to hero. So once in a while maybe you should listen to excuses because some may be valid.

I don't disagree diesel.

 

[Fredless]

Dude!!!! Freddy. I am AREA 43. Thats not cool calling me Area 51. What are you trying to be - funny? Im trying to have a serious Q and A. Is that how you work? When you are losing the debate do you switch to insults and name calling? Freddy you said," When you turned 18 you became an adult". Well, Freddy in your so called DIVINE JUDGEMENT is that how an adult supposed to act? Is that how you treat the people you are supposed to help? Belittle them by name calling. Dont worry Freddy, Im a big boy. No feelings hurt here. Sticks and stones....... Nah Nah.

Anyhow, I notice your last line in your above post has the word "favoritism". At no time on this thread have I used or suggested using the word "favoritism". I guess that was just another bad JUDGEMENT error on your part. RESPECT, is the word I 've been trying to hammer home here. Take care area 43/not 51 ) : ) :

lol. You make a good democrat, if you're not one, you should consider changing over... I'm done entertaining you, I think you've had enough fun with me for one thread.

Back on the written statements thing and why I'm so against it unless its a serious moral issue (like theft, violence, harassment etc.) supervisors in my experience try and pit union members against each other. I should have worded that to say consult your steward or B.A. first before giving the company any such statement. For example, I had a supervisor try and get other hourlies to write a statement against a guy for saying a few curse words because 2-3 days prior that employee had written an article 37 harassment greiveance (which was very meritable I might add). Stuff like that. I try and tell the employees if its a petty reason like that, "would that supervisor write a written statement against his boss or other supervisors for working or harassing you to support your greivance? Thats what I thought.."

That was the context I meant it by, but some of you blew things WAY out of proportion.

 

[Fredless]

On my Ohio rider to the central region supplemental tentative agrrement, the wages go, 8/1/08 28.45, 2/1/9 28.82, and then it shows 2/1/13 21.12, misprint? I tried to attach the doc but think I failed miserably.
Confirmed, I failed.

Check it out please, theres something in the new contract for the memorandum of understanding about part timers that says 3.5 hours but if you leave, you forefeit the 3 hour guarantee or something along those lines. When I went to my local's meeting about the new contract, I asked our pres. about that and he said "ohh well that must be a typo, the 3.5 hour gurantee if not changing."

Well, last time I checked if I turn in a greivance and management signs off on it and I greive for 4 hours of a sup working for example, and then 2 days later or whatever, I come back and say "Well crap, I wrote that wrong I MEANT 6 hours."

mmm..no..sorry. We signed off on 4. Just food for thought.