unloading

[dudebro]

Lol why are you carrying a torch for their ridiculous production standards? Get some hobbies dude

So, that's your backup? Your opinion that I carry a torch and have no hobbies? THAT'S how you know what workpace is safe and which isn't?

I knew your statement was fact free, I called you out on it, and this idiotic retort proves it.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

So, that's your backup? Your opinion that I carry a torch and have no hobbies? THAT'S how you know what workpace is safe and which isn't?

I knew your statement was fact free, I called you out on it, and this idiotic retort proves it.

Why do you want their production standards legitimized?

 

[Dr.Brownz]

Ah, I miss the heady days of the FT inside operations, when the union was far stronger. In those days, they used three tactics to control inside management:

1) Discipline an hourly on say, PD-4, and the Steward disagrees. Through a system of winks and nods, someone would yell "Happy Birthday PD-4!" and every package out of the sort aisle would go to PD-4. In the 30 seconds it took for management to run up to the aisle and catch someone missorting, the sort aisle would go back to normal, but 200 missorted packages were already on their way to jam PD-4.
2) Discipline someone for production. Same system of winks and nods. Someone yells "SUPER SORT!" - every unloader and sorter would double their speed, following perfect methods and the sort charts, essentially doing the job TOO WELL, for about 5-10 minutes until the sudden surge in flow shut down the outbound PDs. Then they'd stand around and laugh.
3) God help you if you didn't bring the key - entry employees his / her coffee just the way they liked it at the head of the old traylines. There was no logging of key entries, and if they were in a bad mood, packages could end up anywhere.

Mgmt needed more diplomacy then...

Admitting to sabotaging the operation but you are giving me for wanting UPS to not push people to work too hard. LOL dude what is your deal?

 

[dudebro]

Actually, I'm in management. I didn't do this, I had to learn to negotiate with the people who did. It used to frustrate me but now I understand there needs to be a balance on both sides. The company can't have too much power or the workers suffer. The workers can't have too much power either, or the company goes out of business.
As for legitimacy, my question remains - the OP talked about unloading at a certain rate, you declared it unsafe. Based on what? You keep trying to discredit me like a middle-school bully, instead of backing up your statement.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

Actually, I'm in management. I didn't do this, I had to learn to negotiate with the people who did. It used to frustrate me but now I understand there needs to be a balance on both sides. The company can't have too much power or the workers suffer. The workers can't have too much power either, or the company goes out of business.
As for legitimacy, my question remains - the OP talked about unloading at a certain rate, you declared it unsafe. Based on what? You keep trying to discredit me like a middle-school bully, instead of backing up your statement.

Based on what? Actually doing the job management boy. All of ups"s time standards are unfair so if you are beating or matching their fantasy numbers then you are going too fast. Please explain how you can have a blanket rate of unloading when packages vary so widely in weight and dimensions?

 

[Dr.Brownz]

Actually, I'm in management. I didn't do this, I had to learn to negotiate with the people who did. It used to frustrate me but now I understand there needs to be a balance on both sides. The company can't have too much power or the workers suffer. The workers can't have too much power either, or the company goes out of business.
As for legitimacy, my question remains - the OP talked about unloading at a certain rate, you declared it unsafe. Based on what? You keep trying to discredit me like a middle-school bully, instead of backing up your statement.

ill take it upper management has brainwashed you to get emotional about the numbers which is why you want them legitimized. Or you are real young and idealistic still. LOL

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Based on what? Actually doing the job management boy. All of ups"s time standards are unfair so if you are beating or matching their fantasy numbers then you are going too fast. Please explain how you can have a blanket rate of unloading when packages vary so widely in weight and dimensions?

...by making up the time that you lose handling the big ones by working faster with the small ones...

 

[Dr.Brownz]

...by making up the time that you lose handling the big ones by working faster with the small ones...

Lol and when its all big ones?

 

[dudebro]

Based on what? Actually doing the job management boy. All of ups"s time standards are unfair so if you are beating or matching their fantasy numbers then you are going too fast. Please explain how you can have a blanket rate of unloading when packages vary so widely in weight and dimensions?

OH, I see. You have NO IDEA how the standards are generated, based on your posts. Doing the job doesn't make you any smarter, all of us have done the job. How can you have a blanket rate? I'll explain like you're 5. It's called an average. Some packages are BIG. These take a little longer. Some of them are little, or in bags. These take less time. The average, see, is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

OH, I see. You have NO IDEA how the standards are generated, based on your posts. Doing the job doesn't make you any smarter, all of us have done the job. How can you have a blanket rate? I'll explain like you're 5. It's called an average. Some packages are BIG. These take a little longer. Some of them are little, or in bags. These take less time. The average, see, is somewhere in the middle.

An average is statistically useless without standard deviations. or did they not teach you a phrase to say back to that in management school?

 

[Dr.Brownz]

OH, I see. You have NO IDEA how the standards are generated, based on your posts. Doing the job doesn't make you any smarter, all of us have done the job. How can you have a blanket rate? I'll explain like you're 5. It's called an average. Some packages are BIG. These take a little longer. Some of them are little, or in bags. These take less time. The average, see, is somewhere in the middle.

To add more: the average in question was generated by timing her for 2 minutes. That is not a large enough sample group to generate any sort of reliable statistic out of. You guys are all the same, you repeat phrases that they taught you in management school. Please tell me something I haven't heard before management.

 

[Nimnim]

To add more: the average in question was generated by timing her for 2 minutes. That is not a large enough sample group to generate any sort of reliable statistic out of. You guys are all the same, you repeat phrases that they taught you in management school. Please tell me something I haven't heard before management.

You think that one 2 minute period is the only time they measured? Of course they're going to do more than one, especially if someone is in the probation period. The number generated by their 2 minute observation will not be 100% accurate, but they do more than one and look at the trend. If it's consistently under they're likely to provide extra training or longer observation to see if the sample is accurate.

In my hub they don't need to stand at the trailer to count packages anymore, the scanners outside each unload bay give a rough count, assuming there's space between the packages and there's no problem with the scanner, that generates a constant 3 minute pph that can be viewed from a computer near the supervisors hubcom. It's possible the location the OP is at has the same setup and the sup is checking it through the sort to get a more accurate number over time.

3 seconds a package on the belt isn't a fantastic feat and it gets someone to 1200 pph, if they're happy with someone in at 800, that's a 50% slower time on unloading. I'm not even seeing sups complain if someone is doing less than 400 pph if they're dealing with irregs or a really crappy load. They care that someone is giving it a good effort and with a good load they're hitting 1000+ pph the hourly isn't at risk of getting fired/disciplined.

A lot of people just don't get the math, some say 800 pph is unrealistic, but it's one package on the belt every 4.5 seconds over an hour. If I end up with a pallet of paper boxes I probably won't get each one on the belt that fast, but then behind the paper there's a pallet of toner boxes than weigh 10 lbs each and I can throw those on the belt every 2 seconds. It averages out to a certain extent.

If the loads are built so poorly that's it's impossible to ever meet the numbers management wants then the local sort management does complain and investigate why a load does not allow them to meet the numbers and at that point the poor unloader isn't at fault. If local management didn't care I'd never see them taking pictures of a bs load when the door is opened in the unload so they could send their emails that don't matter to us about another facility screwing theirs.

 

[Analbumcover]

Typically what unloading looks like at our center.

 

[dudebro]

An average is statistically useless without standard deviations. or did they not teach you a phrase to say back to that in management school?

I learned stats in engineering school, so I bet I know a lot more about them than you do. And I have access to something you don't - all the data generated by that pretty box with the red lasers just outside most unload doors. If your center is too small to have them, one of the hubs that sent you the load did, and I can tell you - the STD on package size over a sample size of a few trailers is very low.
The employee in the load working actually has the WORST perspective. You remember and curse all the furniture over 70s, but you DON'T remember any of the 5 lb ones you took out of the wall 4 at a time and put on the belt, because they didn't upset you. So after you're done with a load, you THINK they're all irregs. But they're not.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

I learned stats in engineering school, so I bet I know a lot more about them than you do. And I have access to something you don't - all the data generated by that pretty box with the red lasers just outside most unload doors. If your center is too small to have them, one of the hubs that sent you the load did, and I can tell you - the STD on package size over a sample size of a few trailers is very low.
The employee in the load working actually has the WORST perspective. You remember and curse all the furniture over 70s, but you DON'T remember any of the 5 lb ones you took out of the wall 4 at a time and put on the belt, because they didn't upset you. So after you're done with a load, you THINK they're all irregs. But they're not.

In my experience, all of UPS's numbers are fudged to meet some kind of profit to work ratio. UPS is untrustworthy as a statistic gathering source, thus all of its data is invalid.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

You think that one 2 minute period is the only time they measured? Of course they're going to do more than one, especially if someone is in the probation period. The number generated by their 2 minute observation will not be 100% accurate, but they do more than one and look at the trend. If it's consistently under they're likely to provide extra training or longer observation to see if the sample is accurate.

In my hub they don't need to stand at the trailer to count packages anymore, the scanners outside each unload bay give a rough count, assuming there's space between the packages and there's no problem with the scanner, that generates a constant 3 minute pph that can be viewed from a computer near the supervisors hubcom. It's possible the location the OP is at has the same setup and the sup is checking it through the sort to get a more accurate number over time.

3 seconds a package on the belt isn't a fantastic feat and it gets someone to 1200 pph, if they're happy with someone in at 800, that's a 50% slower time on unloading. I'm not even seeing sups complain if someone is doing less than 400 pph if they're dealing with irregs or a really crappy load. They care that someone is giving it a good effort and with a good load they're hitting 1000+ pph the hourly isn't at risk of getting fired/disciplined.

A lot of people just don't get the math, some say 800 pph is unrealistic, but it's one package on the belt every 4.5 seconds over an hour. If I end up with a pallet of paper boxes I probably won't get each one on the belt that fast, but then behind the paper there's a pallet of toner boxes than weigh 10 lbs each and I can throw those on the belt every 2 seconds. It averages out to a certain extent.

If the loads are built so poorly that's it's impossible to ever meet the numbers management wants then the local sort management does complain and investigate why a load does not allow them to meet the numbers and at that point the poor unloader isn't at fault. If local management didn't care I'd never see them taking pictures of a bs load when the door is opened in the unload so they could send their emails that don't matter to us about another facility screwing theirs.

Just because that rate is possible does not mean it is a safe pace to work at constantly. None of their numbers are based on what is safe to work at everyday. After OP joins the union she should ignore everything the sups say when it comes to production. their numbers they can hire more people if they want things to go faster.

 

[dookie stain]

They have little to no influence on my day.

You could toss 'em all up the middle and I would still get done at the same time.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum. They make or break our entire day.

 

[Nimnim]

Just because that rate is possible does not mean it is a safe pace to work at constantly. None of their numbers are based on what is safe to work at everyday. After OP joins the union she should ignore everything the sups say when it comes to production. their numbers they can hire more people if they want things to go faster.

What numbers would you consider safe for everyday? We can agree that something like a package a second is unreasonable and dangerous, but would one package every 10 seconds be too slow? If I'm picking up 100 lb furniture boxes that's too fast, but should someone in a trailer full of 40 lb boxes be taking that long per package?

When I got hired the company told me the goal they wanted, if I felt it was completely unreasonable I could leave right then and there. I know the union doesn't support production standards but there really is a point where someone isn't giving an honest safe effort and is just being slow to be slow.

When I was in the unload I tried a few times to go as slow as I could but everytime I stopped thinking about going slow I sped up because it wasn't hard. Your body will let you go at your comfortable pace without injury and that can be very close to the pace UPS is looking for. Or at the very least it looks like you're working and not trying to slack off and management will see it as an honest effort. Article 37 goes both ways, they have to respect your physical ability but you also can't purposely sandbag just because you don't want to work.

 

[PT Car Washer]

How many times have you seen two unloaders "racing" to see who can get through their trailer first. And management will buy the winner a can of pop.

 

[Analbumcover]

Just because that rate is possible does not mean it is a safe pace to work at constantly. None of their numbers are based on what is safe to work at everyday. After OP joins the union she should ignore everything the sups say when it comes to production. their numbers they can hire more people if they want things to go faster.

I'm curious if their required production numbers are the same per trailer load and size. After my second trailer sup told me to pick up the pace and that I broke the record for the slowest unload that week.

The particular trailer was loaded with tires, metal hand carts, aluminum pipes, traffic cones and a cornucopia of wayfair furniture. If I had worked at the same pace that I did when unloading Amazon and Macy's packages I would've injured myself.

Was also told to stop looking where I put things on the conveyor. Just toss them. Don't worry if they're fragile.