UPS Contracting work

[MenInBrown]

When I was hired in 1989 I had 3 days with an on-car and 30 days to qualify. It wasn't until I had 10 years in or so that I went to driving school, which was 2 weeks.

It takes me 10 minutes to drive from the center to my first stop and during that ride I taught my helper all he needed to know about delivering residentials.

I am still waiting for your contract reference.

we wish everything was how it was in 1989 dont we? Im still waiting for you to understand the thread of helpers DRIVING. your point was made a long time ago of helpers walking around delivering pkgs...thats what helpers do...This thread is about untrained helpers DRIVING...thanks anyway...enjoy your xmas

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

we wish everything was how it was in 1989 dont we? Im still waiting for you to understand the thread of helpers DRIVING. your point was made a long time ago of helpers walking around delivering pkgs...thats what helpers do...This thread is about untrained helpers DRIVING...thanks anyway...enjoy your xmas

DRIVING WHAT?? GOLF CARTS???

I am an occasional golfer but am not an employee of the golf course I play it. I never received any training on the operation of the golf cart prior to playing my round of golf. The instructions are on the dashboard of the cart. Children operate golf carts.

I learned how to ride a bicycle when I was 4 or 5. My Dad put some training wheels on and took them off after I had become more comfortable. I never received any formal training. I am 51 and still know how to ride a bike.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

As I said, I am personally not in favor of helpers riding bicycles or operating golf carts, but do see the business sense in allowing them to do so. I am in favor of helpers working out of TP-60's.

 

[MenInBrown]

Article 66 of the Atlantic Area Supplemental Agreement

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Those of us not covered by that supplement do not have access to that language. Can you either post the applicable language or paraphrase it for us?

 

[JonFrum]

This is from the "Tentative" version of the Atlantic Supplement before it was voted on.

ARTICLE 63 – PART-TIME EMPLOYEES
Section 4 – Part-Time Package Driver Helpers
". . . Not more than one (1) helper will work from a vehicle with a driver at any one time. The helper must deliver or pickup packages only in conjunction with the drivers they are assigned to while on duty. . . ."

- - - -
When one side or the other tries to abuse the agreed-to language by stretching its interpretation to the breaking point and beyond, an arbitrator or the Court is normally called in to examine the notes of the bargaining parties, and to take testimony from the actual negotiators as to their specific understanding of the language at the time they agreed to it. We are not currently privy to those behind-closed-door uderstandings.

- - - -

A big problem with UPS' creative interpretations of a Helper's permissable work is that many Contract voters, particularly "Yes" voters, probably had no idea that they were voting on stashing quantities of packages in pods and garages, or knew what a TP-60 was, or knew that packages could be delivered by bicycles and golf carts and trailers dropped off at the mall that helpers deliver out of.

There's also the issues of public safety, local ordinances, package security, liability, and general inconsistency with normal UPS Policies.

 

[Backlasher]

If the guy is not sitting in a jumper seat then he/she is at minimum, a seasonal driver which is intitled to a higher pay rate. A helper by definition is helping a driver, not just helping UPS.

Not trying to make an arguement here but it is what it is. I don't care what kind of transportation it is. If they are not helping a driver then they are not a driver helper. If they are walking then maybe, as in I give a helper 10 stops to walk off a block or 2 while I run some pickups, which I wouldn't do.

If they are driven at all then they are a seasonal driver which is $16.10 hrly.

They tried having me drive my own truck and take whole buildlings and deliver under helper pay. I laughed and asked who's gonna come take my truck back cause you don't want to use me as a driver with driver pay. I said no to pay cut and go find a jumper for that pay. They suffered for a few days but gave in.

It doesn't get more clearer then this.

A helper running a mall on foot maybe thats a helper but anything else is not. Go cart. come on, dude is driven still and same liabilities about safety and still covering a good area. Is that not a vehicle. We need to push hardr this next contract or we will loose more drivers.

A helper runs a mall, maybe a building, or sitting in a jumper seat.

Anything else is a driver to me. anything else being excepted by us union is just causeing us part time drivers to get screwed out of our rightfully earned pay and just allows UPS to take for granted our area knowledge.

They tried screwing me alot this peak and I was driven a UPS truck or rental. I didn't put up with it and they were mad when I stood my ground but it just ain't wright. All the stuff we let slide by just to keep stops off us only hurts us in the long run.

We have alot to think about next contract other then our pay.

 

[AssistantSanta]

If the guy is not sitting in a jumper seat then he/she is at minimum, a seasonal driver which is intitled to a higher pay rate. A helper by definition is helping a driver, not just helping UPS.

If the helper is doing something the driver would have to do himself otherwise and they work collaboratively, I believe it makes sense to say "helper".

.

If they are driven at all then they are a seasonal driver which is $16.10 hrly.

I think its fair to say if the wheeled device is not designated as a motor vehicle where it is operated, its fair to say its fair to say the operator is not a driver. Last I checked, kids can ride their bicycle to school and drive golf carts without a license.

They tried having me drive my own truck

Since that requires you to personally furnish something and it is a vehicle requiring registration and a license, that is out of line. Same deal if employer expects you to furnish your own hand truck or a golf cart.

A helper running a mall on foot maybe thats a helper but anything else is not. Go cart. come on, dude is driven still and same liabilities about safety and still covering a good area. Is that not a vehicle. We need to push hardr this next contract or we will loose more drivers.

Is the concern really a safety or is it just a leverage to further argument about other concerns? There a liability concern too when a helper knocks down a pedestrian or walk into the traffic with a heavily stacked platform cart too.

The peak doesn't represent a year around demand, so having extra trucks that would only get used during peak is not a wise investment. When the driver can hand the helper say 20 apartment units worth of stuff and the helper delivers them out of the cart which frees the driver to go take care of bulkier and farther apart stops. It's making a better utilization of resources while reducing environmental impact, noise concerns while still making service in a timely manner.

Helpers that just save the drivers the walk isn't really adding value. We're not a tool to relieve physical stress from drivers so they can relax.

Anything else is a driver to me. anything else being excepted by us union is just causeing us part time drivers to get screwed out of our rightfully earned pay and just allows UPS to take for granted our area knowledge.

If a helper works for a driver with good area knowledge, he is increasing the value of the driver's area knowledge. The driver's area knowledge lets him drop the helper off on the right street where the helper can go make a few deliveries on his own while the driver go do other deliveries.

 

[JonFrum]

I wish every driver would photocopy all the revelant clauses in the National Master Contract and their regional Supplement and hand them to their Helper on Day One. It isn't about what the Helper thinks, it what's in the Contract.

I suppose it's asking too much, but it would also be nice if the appropriate federal DOT, state, and local laws and ordinances were provided as well.

Typically, what is permitted locally is ok until something goes wrong. Let a bicycle cart or golf cart cause an accident, let a high value package be stolen, let a Helper get mauled by a dog, let a Helper cause any kind of an incident on a homeowner's property, and suddenly the Town Fathers realize it's costing the Town money, for police, ambulance, courts etc. This ticks them off when they realize UPS is making money on the operation. Anytime something is done commercially, it is eventually regulated, even if the same act done non-commercially isn't.

Usually it takes an ugly incident to get the Town Fathers to act, so UPS may, in some areas, fly under the radar screen for a season or two. It may also take a while for someone to report a violation of an existing ordinance.

It may be illegal to drive a cart on a public street, or on a sidewalk. It may be illegal to block a sidewalk with a cart. Permits may be required. Storing packages in a drop-off location may be a violation of zoning laws. There are all sorts of issues to consider, and they vary from place to place.

 

[upsset]

I truely wish a lot of my Union Brothers and Sisters would wake up before it is too late. This company continuosly violates the contract and we look the other way. Supervisors working steals money right out of your pocket, eliminates another bargaining unit job, and weakens our pension funds. Allowing seasonal workers or summer casuals to work while full time union members don't enforce their right to work clauses in our contracts, and then knock each other over to take an unpaid day off weakens our union and our pension. We facilitate the permanent elimination of routes by walking out the door unpaid or burning a sick day instead of demanding our 8 hours of work "report pay". Forced production, cuts routes and redistributes the work to the remaining routes. More work should take longer to complete, don't cut or skip your lunch or work before your start time to make it work. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I truely wish a lot of my Union Brothers and Sisters would wake up before it is too late. This company continuosly violates the contract and we look the other way. Supervisors working steals money right out of your pocket, eliminates another bargaining unit job, and weakens our pension funds. Allowing seasonal workers or summer casuals to work while full time union members don't enforce their right to work clauses in our contracts, and then knock each other over to take an unpaid day off weakens our union and our pension. We facilitate the permanent elimination of routes by walking out the door unpaid or burning a sick day instead of demanding our 8 hours of work "report pay". Forced production, cuts routes and redistributes the work to the remaining routes. More work should take longer to complete, don't cut or skip your lunch or work before your start time to make it work. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice speech--what does this have to do with helpers driving golf carts?

 

[upsset]

It has to do with the company violating the contract and union members like you considering that violation to be a good business decision. The company gets away with too much because our members let it happen. The golf carts are just another example of how the company openly violates the agreement while our members look the other way. Our union is under attack by this company and our complacency is their best weapon.

 

[cino321]

Agreed. I hope a driver isn't dispatching these helpers on golf carts.

 

[Catatonic]

It has to do with the company violating the contract and union members like you considering that violation to be a good business decision. The company gets away with too much because our members let it happen. The golf carts are just another example of how the company openly violates the agreement while our members look the other way. Our union is under attack by this company and our complacency is their best weapon.

A certain amount of precedence has been established in the use of helpers using golf carts.
I remember hearing about UPS doing this back in the late 1980's so this is an over 20 year on-going approach to a temporary increase in residential volume.

 

[upsset]

I have been around since the "80's" but last year in Fla. was the first I heard of this practice. The real question as I see it is not so much can they use golf carts as wether or not they are drivers or helpers. The fact that they are driving a vehicle, makes it a no brainer........ they are drivers and should be paid as such.

 

[menotyou]

Nice speech--what does this have to do with helpers driving golf carts?

What are helpers doing driving​?

 

[Catatonic]

I have been around since the "80's" but last year in Fla. was the first I heard of this practice. The real question as I see it is not so much can they use golf carts as wether or not they are drivers or helpers. The fact that they are driving a vehicle, makes it a no brainer........ they are drivers and should be paid as such.

The two places I can remember (that was 20 years ago) were outside Tampa and Phoenix.

 

[Catatonic]

What are helpers doing driving​?

Driving a golf cart does not require a DOT card and is not covered under DOT rules ... therefore, not a drivers.
Neither are bicycles or skateboards although they are driven too!

 

[menotyou]

Driving a golf cart does not require a DOT card and is not covered under DOT rules ... therefore, not a drivers.Neither are bicycles or skateboards although they are driven too!

Do they have to be registered to drive on a city street? No. Golf carts do. Hence, driving. Just as your first word denotes.

 

[Catatonic]

Do they have to be registered to drive on a city street? No. Golf carts do. Hence, driving. Just as your first word denotes.

You must live in NY.

Gold carts do not have to be registered to drive on city streets in GA, FL, AZ, TX TN. etc.

The golf carts are used mostly in retirement communities ... so NY does not matter since NO ONE retires to NY.
One has to drive bicycles as well ... they don't steer themselves.