That depends. If you're in a local where bids are permanent I can see your point, but here we bid routes every year so it wouldn't be a big deal. And there's generally a couple routes hanging from folks out on comp or gone to feeders that need to be covered every day anyway so the guy could just run one of those til the yearly bid.
USERRA Rights
- Thread starter 10yearteamster
- Start date
10yearteamster
Active Member
It looks like he doesn't even want full-time from what I'm hearing, he wants to tranfer to another hub and going full-time would make it more difficult, so he's staying PT.
I'll find out more when I get off vacation...
I'll find out more when I get off vacation...
I agree with you100%, in my center they are permanent.
When I left for my second mobilization I had a very nice route when I got back four years later I was informed my route was dissolved. I filed a USERRA claim for being demoted back to a cover driver and not being retrained properly. During the process I was injured on the job so in my settlement letter from UPS if I cannot go back to my job as a driver UPS will look into a job under the ADA American with Disabilities Act.
When I left for my second mobilization I had a very nice route when I got back four years later I was informed my route was dissolved. I filed a USERRA claim for being demoted back to a cover driver and not being retrained properly. During the process I was injured on the job so in my settlement letter from UPS if I cannot go back to my job as a driver UPS will look into a job under the ADA American with Disabilities Act.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
808183, as a vet I would like to thank you for your service. You mention that your second mobilization lasted 4 years and that when you came back your job was waiting for you. (Yes, you became a casual driver because your route was dissolved but I have to think that if your route was intact you would have gone back to that route). The OP was gone for 10 years---do you think he should have come back after 10 years as if he had never left or do you think that 10 years is too long for a company to hold his position? Would you consider someone who has served for 10 years to be a career service member?
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Tough call. I think the job should be held for as long as the person is in combat or some other critical situation. Getting your job back after working in a recruitment office in Hawaii for 10 years maybe not.
Once you finish your first MSO (military service obligation) of 8 years no matter if it was active or reserve you are considered a carrerist. Your coworker is more than likely working at a MOB station, they offer jobs to qualified military personnel who are just getting back from deployments. Just to let you know their knowledge is critical since they have just gotten back. I MOB'd out of Fort Dix and Camp Atterberry, outstanding cadre with great MOUT training.
We train to not die for our country but give our enemy the maximum opportunity to die for his!
We train to not die for our country but give our enemy the maximum opportunity to die for his!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I was active duty from 1981-89. My first enlistment was 4 years active with a 2 year inactive obligation. When I reenlisted in 1985 for 4 more years I did not incur an inactive obligation. I was told that if you put in 8 you may as well put in 20 so I got out with just under 8 years in. Was hired at UPS while still on terminal leave.
The law (USERRA) is pretty clear and it's also pretty generous. The 5 year period allows anyone to serve a full enlistment and return to their job. It makes allowances for extending that 5 year period if necessary to cover MOS training or if your active duty time is involuntarily extended during time of war. If you voluntarily reenlist after your first enlistment that's on you and it's asking a bit much for an employer to continue to hold your job. If you reenlist for active duty it's because you like what you're doing.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
Its an unfortunate scenario, but I think the same concept here applies to police officers. Would you really want a police officer who picks and chooses what laws he will disregard based on his own opinions.
a shop steward should be enforcing everything he can, by the letter of the contract, VERBATIM!
and then we should realize that there is a time and place to correct things like this if we want to. The correct place to makr a change here would be in NMA during contract negotiations
a shop steward should be enforcing everything he can, by the letter of the contract, VERBATIM!
and then we should realize that there is a time and place to correct things like this if we want to. The correct place to makr a change here would be in NMA during contract negotiations
Jones, let me break it down for you.
Example: Individual works at UPS decides to sign up for Active Duty, usual enlistment 3-4 years but MSO is 8 years. Individual has up to five years to come back to UPS but at that point his seniority and retirement benifits stop and if he had a route it has to go up for bid. Same person gets out three years later and instead of getting put into the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserves) he goes active reserve and his unit gets deployed, his five years start over. But he continues to build UPS center seniority and retirement benefits plus he keeps his route and he is part of the escalator system for promotion.
Example: Individual works at UPS decides to sign up for Active Duty, usual enlistment 3-4 years but MSO is 8 years. Individual has up to five years to come back to UPS but at that point his seniority and retirement benifits stop and if he had a route it has to go up for bid. Same person gets out three years later and instead of getting put into the IRR (Inactive Ready Reserves) he goes active reserve and his unit gets deployed, his five years start over. But he continues to build UPS center seniority and retirement benefits plus he keeps his route and he is part of the escalator system for promotion.
I understand all that, I reenlisted twice in the reserves after my after first enlistment. What I'm talking about is someone who goes over the 5 year limit because he/she chooses to reenlist as active duty.
10yearteamster
Active Member
Well, the verdict is in....
He is getting his job back, but he is not gonna work a day in our hub because he is transferring to a hub in California and attending school while the military pays for it. Works out for us and him! I think everyone benefits from this..... He gets the continued education he desires and our current employees can rest at ease about someone bumping them. Win, win!
He is getting his job back, but he is not gonna work a day in our hub because he is transferring to a hub in California and attending school while the military pays for it. Works out for us and him! I think everyone benefits from this..... He gets the continued education he desires and our current employees can rest at ease about someone bumping them. Win, win!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
This may have resolved this issue in the short run but does not address how it should be resolved if it were to happen again.
Jones, I have seen 3 Soldiers go AGR (Active Guard Reserve) one worked for UPS for two years then went AGR (14 years prior service), after his five Active duty years were up the company called him and he declined to go back, UPS just dropped him from their books.
As for the other two, one was offered his job after being gone 9 years the other 7 years. So the bottom line is after the 5 year federal USERRA law and if your state Department of Justice does not have any additional time the Service member can be off after the 5 year period it falls on his/her employer if their company wants to bring him/her back.
On my very first Guard deployment during the Gulf War and my first deployment for OIF, UPS continued to pay for my medical benefits and paid me the difference in my pay and called my wife every quarter to make sure she was doing okay. They don't do that anymore but what they did was greatly appreciated and it showed me my company was also making sacrifices.
As for the other two, one was offered his job after being gone 9 years the other 7 years. So the bottom line is after the 5 year federal USERRA law and if your state Department of Justice does not have any additional time the Service member can be off after the 5 year period it falls on his/her employer if their company wants to bring him/her back.
On my very first Guard deployment during the Gulf War and my first deployment for OIF, UPS continued to pay for my medical benefits and paid me the difference in my pay and called my wife every quarter to make sure she was doing okay. They don't do that anymore but what they did was greatly appreciated and it showed me my company was also making sacrifices.
