Welfare

menotyou

bella amicizia
Well, we (the white man) did steal their land and food.....
Steal? If I go to Walmart and they want 6 pretty necklaces for a new Schwinn, I guess I get a new Schwinn for that price. Not to mention, how much has the US paid in Welfare, HEAP, medical coverage, rehabs, non-taxable land, ect..............................

I think the we have repaid that debt. Especially, here in NY.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Jefferson County has a huge problem with generational welfare, too. I have a problem with all types of welfare, though. the indians, for one. I know someone will bite my head off for this, but Turning Stone and Akwesasne casino make huge, huge amounts of money. Why are my tax dollars still sending checks to millionaires? I realize some are not, but that is the choice of the indians to distribute their own wealth.

If some aren't aware, if you are at least 1/16th indian, you can get a free check from the US of A.

Men,

I don't disagree in a general sense on welfare but in the case of native americans or indians if you like, you should go back and consider some history and then you might rethink the cause and effect. Case in point is economic professor Tom Di Lorenzo from Loyola College who said the following in an article for the Mises Institute:

History books and the popular culture are full of stories about how "the white man" brutally mistreated the American Indians during the latter half of the nineteenth century. Greedy capitalists are usually portrayed as the villains, killing Indians by the thousands to make way for the railroads in particular and economic development of the West in general.
But it was neither all white men nor all capitalists who brutalized the American Indians. The dispossession of the Indians--culminating in the late 1880s with the surviving tribes of the West being herded onto reservations--was the result of a corrupt and immoral relationship between certain Northern industrialists, particularly government-subsidized railroads, and the federal politicians whose careers they financed and promoted.
The eradication of the Plains Indians by the Union army was an indirect form of corporate welfare for politically connected railroad companies who enlisted the coercive powers of the central state to steal Indian property while engaging in a genocidal policy. Like many citizens today, the Indians were victims of governmental power, not of capitalism or European culture, as today's politically-correct historians insist.

As you read the above article, you might also begin to see where the idea for relationships like the State and ATT/Verizon against LightSquared that Tex posted about got it's start. If you really delve deep into the whole issue of welfare, 2 things will jump out. First, it wasn't so much begged for as it was forced and second, it serves as a dumping point for surplus goods to be absorbed and price support for aggregate demand.

I often hear the talking point that welfare folk are going to Walmart and buying bigscreen TV's and for the moment let's accept that point as fact (there is an indirect truth to it). So, the welfare queen takes your and my private property in the form of labor converted to tax dollars and purchases a big screen TV but whose the real benefactor in this process? Walmart but do we ever hear Walmart utter a peep against the Welfare State? Walmart ever at the frontlines of a Tea Party protest? Putting major money behind Libertarian style political candidate who would end public welfare for alltime? If welfare taxation and wealth redistribution is so bad, why isn't Walmart and all the major capitalist corp. players at the fore front against the welfare state? It's why I've posed the question before!

The public welfare state is a price support and creates a surplus demand for overproduced inventories to keep profits high by shedding the costs onto the backs of taxpayers by the use of wealth re-distribution via central planning. The other option would be to lower the overall price of the inventory but then with materials and labor costs fixed, the profits and 3rd party rent seekers would be the one to pay. And we thought capitalists couldn't be good socialist too? Tex's post on what happened to Lightsquared thanks to ATT/Verizon/State alliance is dead on the money. Kevin Carson's piece Welfare State for the Rich speaks well to this in a general sense.

It's easy for us to just look at the end result and blame the welfare end user as the cause but if you take the time and delve deep into this entire process, you'll begin to see those people in the end result as more the victim and they've been placed where they are (and more important kept there) as the scapegoat and fallguy so that the real culprits can get away with their scheme and never pay the price for it. In fact, we look to the captains of capitalism as leaders and experts and grant them even more power to continue doing the same and then some. And they buy and sell gov't at will and all we do is blame the people who have the least control over it all. And when you enter the voting booth, your vote regardless of which side just empowers and entrenches further the plantation system and builds the fences higher so fewer and fewer of us can escape.

Letting these people continue in power over us is like throwing Brer Rabbit into the briar patch!
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Well, we (the white man) did steal their land and food.....



Upstate ,

If you have a problem with "generational welfare" -- you have identified one of the major reasons.

People seem to live in the past. I am not a five or six generation American. My father and my ancestors were enslaved and starved by the English Empire . I am a first generation American who has put the past behind me --worked hard in both school and career and put the past where it belongs --History.

All people in America today are afforded opportunities but many use the past to be lazy and "on the System"

The Dinosaurs took it from the prehistoric creatures, the cave men from the dinosaurs, the Indians from the cave men --etc, etc, etc.

Relive the past over and over --or fufill your life here on earth and DO SOMETHING with yourself.

I also firmly agree that we provide a firm and caring handup not always a hand out------It is very past time to have generation after generation lead lazy unfilling lives living off of others and blaming everyone and everything except THEMSELVES.


The first thing that should be changed is the term "Entitlement System" ---Help , Assistance and Temporary Welfare --No one has a right to be "Entitled" to the money I worked for.

I am gladly willing to pay my fair share and also freely contribute to charity for the advancement of our society.

To have my money taken and wasted by both the government and many many takers --I will fight.:warriorsmiley:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I don't look at the past. I personally didn't steal from the Indian. I personally never owned a slave and I'm pretty certain you were never a slave yourself.

I'm sure my ancestors....whoever the hell they are...had rough times too.

It's here and now.......focus on it!
 

texan

Well-Known Member
Some really great post here.

I really have learned some important insights reading these post for the last few days in this thread.

 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
The problem is if these people didn't live in the past is that they wouldn't have any excuses then. At this time we are on the verge of becoming a European society.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I despise the term Native American and think the use of Aboriginal American is more appropriate. Russell Means told the Federal government the Lakota Sioux were going to secede and we are still waiting. The American Indians are ideally positioned to break away from the US in the most expeditious means possible if they would simply do it. Since first contact in the early sixteenth century, the original inhabitants of the North American continent have been getting a raw deal. Treaty after treaty has been broken and the concomitant trail of tears has been a veritable river.
Beset by government largesse that has largely subsidized sloth, alcoholism and slavish dependency on welfare transfers, they are the poster child for how a government can quite literally destroy a sliver of humanity through a dependency that poisons the soul and eradicates any notion of independence.
The Lakota are five years running after petitioning the State Department for withdrawal. And so far nothing, so what is a Indian secessionist to do. Maybe they can become North America’s first “returnist” movement trying to advocate for complete divorce and reparations. Reparations is not necessarily the notion of salary and benefits for aggrieved parties as some black elements have advocated for because the term technically means a return or a “making whole” of the parties. In the case of American Indians, they have an originalist claim to large swaths of America while black slaves would legally be advocating for a return to their respective homelands in Africa. A return to that continent may make them less than whole depending on where they happen to land.
The tribes need to take the initiative and stop the intruders by waging a soft revolution that refuses to accept any poisoned subsidy on reservation land and take some of the following steps:

Read the rest at: Just Go Away: Why the American Indian Needs to Leave the United States…Forever
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I'll give you little hint, it is because of the letter (R).
Members of the House....33 out of 160
Members of the Senate...4 out of 40

Meaningless point. She could easily gather the evidence from available records and documentation and then release that data to the public. YouTube for example could prove a powerful resource just as there might be varying political groups or organization who could take this info and spread it far and wide. From the conservative/republican bent, are you suggesting she can't release the info to say a Breitbart or WeaselZippers (Andrew Fell is from Mass. and seemingly a natural ally) and once this info goes public, you use the back pressure from public reaction to push the political agenda for a policy change. With hard facts and data, most politicians regardless of party would find it very hard to resist such public backlash. Why has she not thought of this already?

So again, I pose the question, why has she not gathered the data to show this is a wide spread problem to change public policy?
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
O’CONNELL ASKS GOVERNOR TO MAKE HIS APPOINTMENT TO EBT COMMISSION
EBT Commission Waiting for Governor Patrick’s Appointee
TAUNTON…Today, State Representative Shaunna O’Connell, 3rd Bristol House District, has asked Governor Deval Patrick to please finally make his appointment to the EBT Reform Commission.
“It has been months since this commission was passed into law. With the report due on April 1, it is vital that we meet as soon as possible. Right now, no meetings have been scheduled because we are waiting on the Governor to make his appointment. I am asking him to please finally make his appointment to the Commission,” said O’Connell.
The Commission was passed into law December 21, 2011, and is supposed to report back by April 1. It was established to ferret out waste and abuse of Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards. Last fall there were numerous news reports about EBT card recipients using their cards to buy drugs and other nonessentials.
“The abuse involving EBT cards is a problem that needs to be addressed. I take very seriously the abuse of taxpayer dollars, and I hope the Governor does too. He needs to make his appointment now so we can get to work,” said O’Connell. “We owe it to the taxpayers to take action to stop the abuse plaguing the system.”
Earlier this year O’Connell was able to pass the legislation prohibiting recipients from buying alcohol, cigarettes and lottery tickets with these tax dollar funded benefits.
February 7, 2012
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I don't think anyone's watching the store anywhere!! Remember the czar appointed to ferret out the federal waste and redudancy? He's dead in a closet somewhere.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
O’CONNELL ASKS GOVERNOR TO MAKE HIS APPOINTMENT TO EBT COMMISSION
EBT Commission Waiting for Governor Patrick’s Appointee
TAUNTON…Today, State Representative Shaunna O’Connell, 3rd Bristol House District, has asked Governor Deval Patrick to please finally make his appointment to the EBT Reform Commission.
“It has been months since this commission was passed into law. With the report due on April 1, it is vital that we meet as soon as possible. Right now, no meetings have been scheduled because we are waiting on the Governor to make his appointment. I am asking him to please finally make his appointment to the Commission,” said O’Connell.
The Commission was passed into law December 21, 2011, and is supposed to report back by April 1. It was established to ferret out waste and abuse of Electronic Benefit Transfer Cards. Last fall there were numerous news reports about EBT card recipients using their cards to buy drugs and other nonessentials.
“The abuse involving EBT cards is a problem that needs to be addressed. I take very seriously the abuse of taxpayer dollars, and I hope the Governor does too. He needs to make his appointment now so we can get to work,” said O’Connell. “We owe it to the taxpayers to take action to stop the abuse plaguing the system.”
Earlier this year O’Connell was able to pass the legislation prohibiting recipients from buying alcohol, cigarettes and lottery tickets with these tax dollar funded benefits.
February 7, 2012

Still doesn't answer the question of why records weren't researched to expose how rampant the problem is so once again,

why has she not gathered the data to show this is a wide spread problem to change public policy?

Going back to the original claim, where is the evidence that there's a wide spread problem of arrested drug suspects are using the EBT cash option for bail money? Come on, if you claim abuse of the system, people scamming the system, show the facts and evidence to support the claim. It's too damn easy come election time to scream wolf to get votes and then once the election is over with, it's back to business as usual. I've no doubt in my mind that abuse is very possible but at every election cycle we have the same ole characters who scream the loudest only once the votes are counted they turn around and become the most silent. Make these bastards and BITCHES prove their case if they are going to use it for political purposes. If they have to show the evidence, it becomes harder to run off and hide, collect a paycheck from taxpayers and wait for the next election cycle and whip up the latest fear factor!
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I heard the lady the other day saying there was like a $50 cash option on cards where they could get cash and buy whatever they wanted....including bail or whatever. It's the cash option thing they were talking about doin away with so they couldn't abuse it anymore .

No, I don't know who was talking....just a group talking about the problem of abusing the cards.
 
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