upsman2940
Well-Known Member
Can't pay the bills with union dues from a ptimer.
what do part timers want in 2013
- Thread starter 804troublemaker
- Start date
It's good to see the fters have the same elitist attitude here as they do in my hub. Part time wages are pure garbage for the work we do. I work on the sort aisle and am lucky to get over 15 hours a week. I read on another thread here someone saying the contract guarantees you 3.5 or 4 hours or whatever, so just push to make sure you get those hours. I know first-hand if you try to do that it puts you on the bad side of every sup in the building. The only thing the sups care about is production after force-feeding you the safety garbage everyday. We actually have some pencil pusher watching us work 2-4 days a week and taking our names down for not treating every box like a new born baby. example: box was on ground. i bent over and slid it onto the belt with my hands slowly, as it went on the belt, it rolled onto its side. Said pencil pusher comes by and asks my name to take it down for mishandling.
Also, its a real laugh to read "it's our fault we are part time because its a choice". True story, i asked one time what it would take to become a fork lift operator in the building. I asked our union rep of the building who is a fork lifter. He said something along the lines of "when he, x, or x dies." Fact is, there are no ft jobs to be had. The people who get them (or any other decent position) don't want to leave them and there are no new positions higher then a pter sup opening up, which comes with its own risks in itself considering you aren't even union anymore and you lose half your benefits. It is far from a choice. I have personally seen 3 or 4 people leave after 4-5 years working their behinds off for peanuts as a pt trying to score that sweet driver job that is never gonna come along. Yet every driver I talk to complains about how they have too much work. And there are no new jobs becaaaauuuuse??? UPS is 100% about production, and use whatever methods are required to increase it, usually yelling at the workers and if that fails, the sups yell at each other. At least the fters get paid for their hassle. What do I get as a pter? some benefits that would be great if i had a family and wasn't just a single healthy young male like 80% of the other pters? I've been there 2.5 years (yes i know in the grand scheme of things that isn't very long) and i'm still behind many people to even get a pt sup position, let alone a ft position. At this point I think it might be better to just cut my losses and work somewhere else. I could probably get hired at costco with a starting pay of 12 or 13 dollars (im at 11.50 lol), actually get the minimum they promise to employees (25 hours) and the job would be so much easier. Maybe almost as hectic, but not nearly as hard. If only I didn't turn them down in my first 6 months at ups when I was allured with the prospect of a part time sup position when I told them I was going to quit to work there. Suffice to say, they still haven't attempted to help me get that position.
so what I would like to see?
1.more ft jobs.
2.higher pt pay.
3.actually following through with the minimum hour per week requirements or at least hiring enough people to do the workload in the time they expect at a reasonable pace so I'm not working as hard as I can to still get yelled at.
Also, its a real laugh to read "it's our fault we are part time because its a choice". True story, i asked one time what it would take to become a fork lift operator in the building. I asked our union rep of the building who is a fork lifter. He said something along the lines of "when he, x, or x dies." Fact is, there are no ft jobs to be had. The people who get them (or any other decent position) don't want to leave them and there are no new positions higher then a pter sup opening up, which comes with its own risks in itself considering you aren't even union anymore and you lose half your benefits. It is far from a choice. I have personally seen 3 or 4 people leave after 4-5 years working their behinds off for peanuts as a pt trying to score that sweet driver job that is never gonna come along. Yet every driver I talk to complains about how they have too much work. And there are no new jobs becaaaauuuuse??? UPS is 100% about production, and use whatever methods are required to increase it, usually yelling at the workers and if that fails, the sups yell at each other. At least the fters get paid for their hassle. What do I get as a pter? some benefits that would be great if i had a family and wasn't just a single healthy young male like 80% of the other pters? I've been there 2.5 years (yes i know in the grand scheme of things that isn't very long) and i'm still behind many people to even get a pt sup position, let alone a ft position. At this point I think it might be better to just cut my losses and work somewhere else. I could probably get hired at costco with a starting pay of 12 or 13 dollars (im at 11.50 lol), actually get the minimum they promise to employees (25 hours) and the job would be so much easier. Maybe almost as hectic, but not nearly as hard. If only I didn't turn them down in my first 6 months at ups when I was allured with the prospect of a part time sup position when I told them I was going to quit to work there. Suffice to say, they still haven't attempted to help me get that position.
so what I would like to see?
1.more ft jobs.
2.higher pt pay.
3.actually following through with the minimum hour per week requirements or at least hiring enough people to do the workload in the time they expect at a reasonable pace so I'm not working as hard as I can to still get yelled at.
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Sounds like the UPS I know.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
We should organize all our part-time brothers in the RTW states, and leave the teamsters an ultimatum that if they don't negotiate in our favor next contract (part-timers favor), all the part-timers in those RTW states will opt-out of the union.
ftballer67
Well-Known Member
That is already happening. Unfortunately, the Teamsters won't act until more states go RTW and they really see the effect in lost dues. I'm not a huge RTW supporter but I'd be in favor of it as I'm convinced that is the only way we will ever see a decent contract from the Teamsters, when they start to see significant losses in member and dues. Sad it has come to that.
ftballer67
Well-Known Member
My above reply was to brown_trousers post.
The only thing loss of membership through RTW legislation would produce is less negotiation power resulting in pay and work conditions even lesser than what exists today. Locals would be the first impacted by RTW which would reduce representation locally (where you need it the most) thereby encouraging even more freeloaders which continues the cycle downward. Stats show weak numbers of pt'ers being involved in voting either for contracts or local officers. Until that changes pt'ers will be pooped on. When the leaders at the IBT see big numbers (interest) from pt'ers, they'll get attention. A guy named Ron Carey had that figured out years ago.
ftballer67
Well-Known Member
Local representation, LOL what's that? We don't see that now and I've been to union meetings where it's been painfully obvious they don't care. The only time anyone from the Local shows up at my building and even pretends we exist is when they need signatures for a petition drive or ballot initiative.
Negotiation power. Another LOL! The power that does exist is used to benefit and enrich full time members at our expense with the occasional scraps and crumbs coming our way.
No offense but it can't get much worse for us than it is already in relation to what full time compensation is. That's part of the reason the part time work force is uninvolved, I think most of us are resigned to the fact that the way things are set up now we will never get fair representation from the Teamsters compared to the full timers.
Negotiation power. Another LOL! The power that does exist is used to benefit and enrich full time members at our expense with the occasional scraps and crumbs coming our way.
No offense but it can't get much worse for us than it is already in relation to what full time compensation is. That's part of the reason the part time work force is uninvolved, I think most of us are resigned to the fact that the way things are set up now we will never get fair representation from the Teamsters compared to the full timers.
ftballer67
Well-Known Member
BTW, what's your solution because you are never going to see massive union involvement from part timers. Most of us have to work 2 jobs just to make it which doesn't leave us free time to organize any kind of movement and the rest are students or those who working temporarily and just don't care. The way it is set up now the Teamsters will never help us, I believe only when forced by the loss of dues & members will they then actually have to compete for members by offering a decent contract like they do for full time members.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
I didnt realize membership was that low in RTW states. Perhaps the union should be giving part-timers more incentive to choose union. As they give full-timers enough incentive as I hear they still have a decent membership among FTers even in those RTW states
Our local officers have had many hotdog cookouts for the employees to stop by and eat and get to meet them and a big part of it was to sign part-timers up. A few joined but not many. I believe that most p-t's don't think they need the union and think why pay dues when you don't have to.
As far as full-time, there is a lot more stigma not being a member, as most full-timers are members. In feeders if you aren't a member you are shunned.
Todays pt'ers are tomorrows full timers. Pt'ers have more avenues into FT now than ever before. I've been around awhile and in no prior contract has there been stronger language than now to advance pt'ers. The lousy fact is the economy is moving pretty slow and competition is up. Fedex gets by with cheaper labor and low bennys and busterbrown has to compete with that. No doubt pt'ers are getting the short straw but wanting ft'ers to give back may harm you in the long run.
The local union will be as strong or weak as it's members allow. Have you done the job of a local union officer/agent? I bet they've done your job. Walk away from the union and UPS wins, all employees will lose. In RTW states, all wages are lower, union or otherwise.
It really can't get much worse then it already is in my hub. Tonight at around 8:30 they must of had 3 or 4 people unloading on one of our metro lines for 20-30 mins that had one sorter on it. I was running in between both metro lines trying to help them as they got pounded and 1/3 the work was falling on the floor. Literally so much work was coming down, it couldn't even fit on the entire width of the belt. And this isn't a rare occurrence in the slightest. My real question is though, for what reason could they possibly need to do that? To save maybe 10 or 15 mins? It's absolutely absurd. They tell us how we have to be safe and then provide an unsafe work environment. Ups is a joke.
Maybe less negotiation power for the fters, which really isn't a concern in my opinion. They already have it made and the only thing pters get is the benefits, which like I stated earlier only helps a max of 30% of pters. Basically the people with families, and the lazy pill head broads in small sort. The starting wage now is about to be minimum wage in NJ soon (min wage is currently 7.25, so you start off a whole 1.25 over minimum... lol, getting a boost to 8.50 soon) If I don't see at least a dollar raise on my paycheck after they raise minimum/update the contract and I'm not already working somewhere else, I'm definitely gonna make it my mission to find other employment. It's just not worth it.
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1:You just created a paradox. We have more avenues, but at the same time the economy is slow and there aren't ft positions. lol good argument. And if you look at how ups has been doing they have been making much more money in the last year or 2. I read on a different thread the CEO gave himself a nice 70 some percent raise to a bit over 10 mil last year.
2: Fedex pays more, and I'm not quite sure how paying out for benefits works for UPS, but I'd have to imagine all the pters without families insured are getting the short end of the stick, which is most of the pters. Like I just stated in my other post, in NJ the starting wage is 1.25 over min wage, and its about to be EQUIVILENT to min wage come a few more months.
FedEx pays an average of $18.50 less per hour in wages and benefits for full timers. Obviously UPS costs are much lower for pt's but benny's (when eligible) aren't insignificant. CEO pay isn't a union issue.
Full timers have it "made" from the perspective of someone not doing their job. "Walk a mile in my shoes"...
I didn't "create" the paradox, I merely pointed out reality. In my neck of the UPS woods, some FT's with 15 years seniority are laid off. But in any case, the union isn't to blame for lay-offs or a crappy economy that keeps pt's from moving into ft jobs. The Union did their job negotiating the avenues. It isn't the Unions fault the road is closed. Negotiated allowances for pt's to get future ft jobs is not without value. Calling that no help is off base. Pt'ers always think money first. Running to false solutions of RTW as a way to improve a lousy situation is counterproductive.
I absolutely agree pt's are getting the short end, but I have been told by some wheels who recognize this disparity pt wages will be improved. If you're looking long term, pt is the best way to ft. The really question is, do you want to wait for a full time job that's getting increasing tougher every day and do that for a career? If not, moving on might be your best course.
I'm not saying the fter's have it easy, but most of us pters don't either. In fact its down right smile**y for alot of us, esp on the sort aisle (i've done every position in the building for pters other then sup, loading and unloading is pretty harsh too.) Sure, we work only a fraction of the hours, but i would do my job for 8 hours if it was an option because i'm barely making it week to week, and I promise you its no easier then what a driver does. Probably harder considering at least a driver gets to sit from stop to stop, and the average driver makes at least twice if not 3 or even 4 times what a pter makes an hour. i'm constantly lifting boxes the whole time, and getting reprimanded pretty consistently on a daily basis because of the excessive workload and shortage of workers. Its not any different. Drivers and sups have to handle too much work. Guess what? So do the pters. For alot of pters its also a second job on top of whatever else they do all day. I'd love to walk a few miles in their shoes. Like I said before, at least I'd be getting paid for my hassle, rather then scraping by.
Also, I was referring to pters, figured that was kind of inferred since the subject was based on pters, I should have clarified. I know the fters get shafted in comparison to fedex, but drivers at ups still make ave of 30 dollars an hour starting at 26 I believe? And most of them get 5-15 hours of overtime a week which probably balances out pretty well idk.
And I pointed out the fat ceo bonus as a way of saying "hey look where a bunch of last years revenue went." 70% increase to 10 mil means he was at around 6 mil last year? 4 mil could go a long way to improving the pay of alot of people, and it just goes to show there's more to go around then what they'd like have to us believe.
side comment: I'd like to say I'd like to stay working at ups, but it just doesn't seem like a great option currently. Its pretty hard when you have no skills to find a 2nd job that meshes well with a ups pt schedule. I have a fine work ethic. I'm not afraid to work for my money, but I also don't think it's worth me waiting till i have 5-7 years of seniority before i can finally get a decent paying job. I could have a full degree in a much better paying field by then anyway lol, and also not have to work like an animal for the rest of my career.
Also, I was referring to pters, figured that was kind of inferred since the subject was based on pters, I should have clarified. I know the fters get shafted in comparison to fedex, but drivers at ups still make ave of 30 dollars an hour starting at 26 I believe? And most of them get 5-15 hours of overtime a week which probably balances out pretty well idk.
And I pointed out the fat ceo bonus as a way of saying "hey look where a bunch of last years revenue went." 70% increase to 10 mil means he was at around 6 mil last year? 4 mil could go a long way to improving the pay of alot of people, and it just goes to show there's more to go around then what they'd like have to us believe.
side comment: I'd like to say I'd like to stay working at ups, but it just doesn't seem like a great option currently. Its pretty hard when you have no skills to find a 2nd job that meshes well with a ups pt schedule. I have a fine work ethic. I'm not afraid to work for my money, but I also don't think it's worth me waiting till i have 5-7 years of seniority before i can finally get a decent paying job. I could have a full degree in a much better paying field by then anyway lol, and also not have to work like an animal for the rest of my career.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The CEO did not "give himself" a 70% raise. UPS has an executive board that determines his overall compensation and you may be surprised to learn that compared to his counterparts he is relatively underpaid. This is not to say we should hold a bake sale for him anytime soon.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
You have to understand the principal of "delayed gratification".
I worked part-time for 8 years.... While working a 40 hour a week job in construction.... for 8 years....
And then, did side jobs on the weekend.
If you have a work ethic.... as you say.... Suck it up. Quitting will only contribute to the 80% turnover rate for part-timers.
And the reason, UPS avoids wanting to do anything for the part-timers during negotiations.
-Bug-
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