Would you rather?

[iruhnman630]

I would prefer as much control over my own financial future as possible, including health care.

 

[Packmule]

Good question...Pension is guaranteed for life, and spouse(if applicable), where 401(k) is at the markets whim. I like to play it safe with monies that I need, and would invest conservatively, so probably would go with the pension. The money I put into 401(k) now I consider extra, and am more aggressive with, and have done well with, since I could live on pension and SS quite comfortably.

Good counter point, but I still feel the private markets are the way to go. UPS needs to stay strong and healthy for decades to come to keep pension well. Things are good now, but who knows what the future will be like. 401ks can be moved around if needed. The pension is the "eggs in one basket" thing. I'd go half 401k and half my Roth.

 

[Work safe or not at all.]

Good counter point, but I still feel the private markets are the way to go. UPS needs to stay strong and healthy for decades to come to keep pension well. Things are good now, but who knows what the future will be like. 401ks can be moved around if needed. The pension is the "eggs in one basket" thing. I'd go half 401k and half my Roth.

Then you would have nothing. Half of nothing, plus half of nothing, equals nothing.

 

[Packmule]

Then you would have nothing. Half of nothing, plus half of nothing, equals nothing.

What?

 

[Coldworld]

In 710 they are currently contributing $401 weekly. The thought of even 15 years at that level would be fantastic.

True but if this was to ever happen ups would make sure nobody would retire to never be on the hook for said monies...they would use it as their personal slush fund..believe it

 

[710 steward]

True but if this was to ever happen ups would make sure nobody would retire to never be on the hook for said monies...they would use it as their personal slush fund..believe it

I don't see how. Every week you are employed $401 would go into your 401k and if you hit the max you could put the rest into traditional IRA's.

 

[Mugarolla]

Mine is guaranteed through the PBGC which, if I were 60 today and UPS plan gone under(which is funded at over 105%) would get $3200+(much more than pennies on the dollar) each month and goes up each year. That plus SS(which is not going away to the determent of the country) and I can live comfortably.

Multi employer guarantees(if you are in) are only guaranteed a max of a little over $12,800 a year according to PBGC. That is with a special circumstance, your mileage may/will vary.

Anyways, I am not going to worry about something that I can not change, and something that will be OK. The sky is not falling on my pension.

I don't worry about it either, but the PBGC is broke right now. Where are they going to get the money to pay all that money if Buster tanks? They will have to reduce benefits. Pennies on the dollar.

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[Mugarolla]

Good counter point, but I still feel the private markets are the way to go. UPS needs to stay strong and healthy for decades to come to keep pension well. Things are good now, but who knows what the future will be like. 401ks can be moved around if needed. The pension is the "eggs in one basket" thing. I'd go half 401k and half my Roth.

Talked to a financial planner awhile back. Asked him what my balance would be at retirement if he invested my pension money instead of Buster or the union having it. He did the math and using a relatively conservative approach, pretty much no risk to the money, he said roughly 4 million dollars.

At a conservative 5% interest (realistic with that kind of money) that's $200,000 a year and not even touching the principle. Buster is going to give us about $36,000-$40,000. Nice, huh

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[PiedmontSteward]

What happens when Hoffa jr steals the central states pension funds money just like daddy did?? Will he build a new Vegas? Will the poor old men of the central states retire with no pension?? Will any of us have anything in our pension when HOFFA/hall are done with it??


"THE PIGS ARE IN THE MARBLE PALACE"

While the loans Hoffa made to the mob to fund Vegas were definitely unethical, he actually had a pretty good return on the investment.

Central States began to become seriously mismanaged when Frank Fitzsimmons took over as IBT GP and then things all went downhill from there -- the terms for the loans became much more favorable for organized crime and at one point, the CS Pension Fund had over 90% of its assets allocated in real estate. I'm not an accountant, but I know that's a terrible ing idea.

However, the primary nail in the coffin for the pension fund was deregulation of the trucking industry. At one point, over 90% of the trucking industry was unionized and that 90% consisted primarily of the Teamsters. We went from 450,000 members across 14,000 different companies when the National Master Freight Agreement was signed in 1964 to only 3 remaining union freight carriers today (ABF, YRC and UPS Freight -- and UPS Freight is not in CS). YRC has had a pension freeze for at least the last 5 years and the remaining contributor (ABF) is essentially funding the pension payments for thousands of orphaned retirees whose companies have been wiped out by scab trucking.

 

[Brownslave688]

While the loans Hoffa made to the mob to fund Vegas were definitely unethical, he actually had a pretty good return on the investment.

Central States began to become seriously mismanaged when Frank Fitzsimmons took over as IBT GP and then things all went downhill from there -- the terms for the loans became much more favorable for organized crime and at one point, the CS Pension Fund had over 90% of its assets allocated in real estate. I'm not an accountant, but I know that's a terrible ing idea.

However, the primary nail in the coffin for the pension fund was deregulation of the trucking industry. At one point, over 90% of the trucking industry was unionized and that 90% consisted primarily of the Teamsters. We went from 450,000 members across 14,000 different companies when the National Master Freight Agreement was signed in 1964 to only 3 remaining union freight carriers today (ABF, YRC and UPS Freight -- and UPS Freight is not in CS). YRC has had a pension freeze for at least the last 5 years and the remaining contributor (ABF) is essentially funding the pension payments for thousands of orphaned retirees whose companies have been wiped out by scab trucking.

Yep here the key. Our $300-$400 a week isn't just paying our pensions. It's paying thousands of other peoples pensions also.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Yep here the key. Our $300-$400 a week isn't just paying our pensions. It's paying thousands of other peoples pensions also.

What part of the country are you in? With a few exceptions (such as Upstate New York, Chicago, New Jersey, and a few others) most FT UPS employees are in the IBT/UPS FT company plan (single-employer) and most (if not all) PT employees are in the UPS/IBT PT company plan (also single-employer). UPS negotiated a withdrawal liability from Central States in the '08-'13 contract and also bought out their liability in the New England Conference of Teamsters plan. These moves were essentially death knells to those plans.

 

[710 steward]

Yep here the key. Our $300-$400 a week isn't just paying our pensions. It's paying thousands of other peoples pensions also.

I know you are correct but it's wrong. We are all "supposed" to be paying for ourselves as we go. I'd really like to see how many people are drawing out more than they ever paid in plus interest. Even a company went out if business all of the employees are vested for what they paid in and some collect benefits later in life because they didn't make it 30 years. So there were supposed to be years of interest compounded for them to collect their set amount monthly.

 

[TooTechie]

My 401k took a dive in the crash of 08 and never really recovered. A sound pension fund which is regularly evaluated, disclosed and audited by a third party is the way to go.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

My 401k took a dive in the crash of 08 and never really recovered. A sound pension fund which is regularly evaluated, disclosed and audited by a third party is the way to go.

Your 401k still hasn't recovered?


Resident know-it-all.

 

[BakerMayfield2018]

Your 401k still hasn't recovered?


Resident know-it-all.

That's a hard one. Obviously lost a lot. But continued putting in for last 6 years so is probably back to what it was plus some I'm guessing. But by saying "recovered" maybe he is talking $ he had plus what he has put in past 6 years.

 

[TooTechie]

Your 401k still hasn't recovered?

Resident know-it-all.

Yeah, I'm still down about 10K. It's not a UPS 401k.

 

[upschuck]

A pension fund is professionally managed, and therefore more likely to make money in all kinds of market conditions. 401(k) is self managed, and you get what you pay for.

 

[710 steward]

Yeah, I'm still down about 10K. It's not a UPS 401k.

Sorry to hear that. Mine is up 40+ grand over the last two years. For what I have put into my 401k vs what UPS has put into the pension, I am way out performing the pension fund.

 

[brownmonster]

If your 401k didn't recover you were probably moving money around. If you stayed the course and kept buying all the way down and all the way back, you did well.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

If your 401k didn't recover you were probably moving money around. If you stayed the course and kept buying all the way down and all the way back, you did well.

Do you know, how much cheese...you could buy with that money?