Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?
- Thread starter phillly0588
- Start date
Here is my bottom line. This company makes billions in profit. From what I understand through the rumer mill is that progression will take longer, part-timers will wait 1 year for benefits to kick in, etc. From my point of few, these 2 issues alone are less than what we currently receive. Why in the world would we give up what we already have? I could understand if the company was not doing well. That is the time to consider concessions, but the company is doing wery well.
Once again some intersting numbers: in 2001, m eskew 's total comp was $1.1 million...now its $6.1 million...thats a 600% increase...i dont think ups stock has increased 600%??..has ups market share gone up 600%?? not! BUT HE GETS REWARDED HANDSOMELY, NO??
Has our pay gone up 600% since 2001...that would be the "best contract ever" now wouldnt it??
When the people who create the wealth with their sweat for this company want to be compensated for the hard work we do...we get hemming and hawing...competition...benefits...gas prices...new technologies...pension problems........Again, WHY DO WE TAKE THE HIT??
2006 Profits were up by 8.6% ... 2005 profits were up 16%!!! Remember this is all AFTER expenses!!!!! So when profits are up, the fat cats get rewarded( no hemming etc...Mikey likes it , NO?) and we get the crumbs?? Take a stand folks...we've been insulted..BIG TIME!
Has our pay gone up 600% since 2001...that would be the "best contract ever" now wouldnt it??
When the people who create the wealth with their sweat for this company want to be compensated for the hard work we do...we get hemming and hawing...competition...benefits...gas prices...new technologies...pension problems........Again, WHY DO WE TAKE THE HIT??
2006 Profits were up by 8.6% ... 2005 profits were up 16%!!! Remember this is all AFTER expenses!!!!! So when profits are up, the fat cats get rewarded( no hemming etc...Mikey likes it , NO?) and we get the crumbs?? Take a stand folks...we've been insulted..BIG TIME!
1989
Well-Known Member
Agitor....What was full scale in 1997? I think it was about $19 or $20 an hour. In ten years that's about a 40% increase in wages alone, not counting med, dent, pension. UPS couldn't afford to increase everybodys pay by 600%. Fill out your proxy and vote for new boardmembers if you don't like it. Find me a CEO that doesn't make that kind of money.
3 done 3 to go
In control of own destiny
All of the PT employees will be the ones to decide the future of the contract. They out number the FT employees 3 to 1. If they don't like what is in it they will vote it down. Also, it will depend on their voter turn out. I know many at our center just throw the ballots out. Most just want to hear the money part
1. I started as a casual driver. I have voted no on all the contracts during my career. Probably will again. I will make sure to get the facts not the rumors
. I will have 20 yrs in November. Will get my 3rd week vacation next year. It should be my 5th week.(1st 10 yrs didn't count as seniority-also no sick/or rover days or Payed vacation
!) PT get all their time When moved to FT. As for me i really don't see what their complaints are. YOU WILL NEVER MAKE FT WAGE FOR 4 HRS WORK. ALSO WITH PAS UPS CAN HIRE ANYONE TO DO YOUR JOB!
1. I started as a casual driver. I have voted no on all the contracts during my career. Probably will again. I will make sure to get the facts not the rumors. I will have 20 yrs in November. Will get my 3rd week vacation next year. It should be my 5th week.(1st 10 yrs didn't count as seniority-also no sick/or rover days or Payed vacation!) PT get all their time When moved to FT. As for me i really don't see what their complaints are. YOU WILL NEVER MAKE FT WAGE FOR 4 HRS WORK. ALSO WITH PAS UPS CAN HIRE ANYONE TO DO YOUR JOB!I have looked over all the pieces of this tentative contract that are floating around on the internet, I don't see how this would benefit the majority of the union workers. Granted, it is early for any final judgment; however, most workers that I have encountered have said no to this contract proposal. I do understand that this negotiation process is a give and take relationship; however, it looks like the Teamsters are giving more than they are taking. This contract proposal seems to benefit the long standing existing employees more than other newer employees.
Alot of references to Eskew's salary, the amount of money he makes compared to what ceo's at other company's 1/2 or even 1/10 the size makes puts him at the lower end of the scale for CEO's. How many other UPS employees can compare their compensation to what others that do the same job in this industry make and be at the bottom of the scale? Would anybody want to be put on that scale? I certainly wouldn't. It isn't about weather I agree with the things he does or not, this company promotes from within, he had the same opportunity the other 399,999 of us have, he made it, it is his reward.
Damok
Well-Known Member
JustPartTime
Member
I will decide on how I will vote when I know for sure what the new contract says.
I will say that if all I am hearing is true, then it doesn't sound good.
I will say that if all I am hearing is true, then it doesn't sound good.
W
westsideworma
Guest
not really true. it is if they can find people to do it...which at least at my hub, we can't find anyone who wants to work. And to be honest, it seems the ones who loaded the old way are the ones who make PAS work moreso than those who only know PAS (makes sense really).
Damok
Well-Known Member
I would be curious to see, when the details are available to me on Saturday, whether or not the tentative agreement follows the mandate given by the people who filled out the questionnaire early on. If I recall correctly the majority of people who responded wanted pensions and health care issues addressed above wages. If that ends up being the case then it would seem that cries of "more money" are without merit regardless of what Eskew makes.
I think people seem to forget themselves a bit when these types of discussions come about. People come out of the woodwork (I'll include myself in that group
) expressing an opinion about this or outrage at that but lose sight of the big picture failing to take into account the many factors that directly relate to a national agreement. Without wanting to sound too wishy washy I would remind people to see that we have it pretty good at UPS whether you're a Teamster or not (and yes, I am ) tempering your desire for "more" with a pragmatic view of economics would serve us all well in the coming days.
I think people seem to forget themselves a bit when these types of discussions come about. People come out of the woodwork (I'll include myself in that group
) expressing an opinion about this or outrage at that but lose sight of the big picture failing to take into account the many factors that directly relate to a national agreement. Without wanting to sound too wishy washy I would remind people to see that we have it pretty good at UPS whether you're a Teamster or not (and yes, I am ) tempering your desire for "more" with a pragmatic view of economics would serve us all well in the coming days.As a recent joiner to "les cafe" I've been impressed with much of what I've read. It's great to be able to get other's thought & opinions. I agree with what you wrote here...right up to the part about TDU prankster. The people at TDU have as much at stake as you. Some may be more outspoken than others, but everyone should be able to make a statement. Browncafe, denverbrown, & others offer the opportunity to vent and learn. Once someone starts labeling an entire group as pranksters (troublemakers, etc) the divide & conquer process takes place and we all lose.Its people like agitator that give UPS and the union a bad name.
When did he register for the browncafe?? Sept 07! For what reason?
To smear and take advantage by distorting the facts about the contract offer and demean both the Company and the union.
Take a stand and don't let foolish influences like this character have any affect on your right to vote for what you believe in.
Just another TDU prankster...
The Facts About the Pension Protection Act
January 1 Is Not a Deadline for Contract Ratification
Rumors are flying that the UPS contract must be ratified by January 1 because of pension legislation that takes effect on that date.
Make UPS Deliver consulted with actuaries, attorneys and fund managers to cut through the rumors and provide members with the facts.
Here is a summary of the real deal on the Pension Protection Act and what it means for our contract and pensions.
January 1: A Kickoff, Not a Deadline
Some provisions of the Pension Protection Act go into effect on January 1.
This date is the kickoff of a long-term timeline for strengthening funds over 10 to 15 years.
It is not a deadline by which the UPS contract needs to be ratified for UPS Teamsters to avoid pension cuts or win pension improvements.
The Pension Protection Act does include a series of deadlines that must be met by Teamster pension funds.
We will review the critical dates on this timeline in this article.
A benefit consulting firm that advises many Teamster funds, the Segal Group, also produced a detailed timeline of these deadlines.
What Happens on January 1?
On January 1, 2008, the funding portions of the Pension Protection Act go into effect.
As a result, Teamster pension funds will have to certify their funding levels (Green Zone, Yellow Zone or Red Zone) and inform participants and the government of their status.
This process does not occur immediately on January 1, but can take up to 90 days.
On April 1, 2008, fund actuaries have to certify the status of the plan. If a plan is under-funded, then it must notify participants, the union, the company, and the government by May 1, 2008—120 days after January 1.
Yellow Zone and Red Zone
If a pension plan is under-funded, it will be certified by the fund actuary as in the Yellow Zone or the Red Zone.
The Yellow Zone means the fund is less than 80 percent funded.
The Red Zone means that the fund is seriously under-funded and also has a short-term credit balance deficiency (a technical calculation that indicates a more short-term problem than the funding level).
Being under 65 percent funded will not automatically place a pension plan in the Red Zone.
The Central States Plan will not be in Red Zone. In fact, few Teamster plans with UPSers will be fall in the Red Zone, if any.
Funds Have Until December 31, 2008 to Set Plans to Improve Funding
If a plan is in the Yellow Zone or Red Zone, the plan’s actuary will then come up with at least two options to get the funding level up toward 80 percent over the next ten or 15 years.
These options include increasing employer contributions, and/or decreasing future pension accruals.
In no case will your accrued benefits be cut. What you have already earned is safe.
For any plan under 80 percent funded, the trustees will adopt a Funding Improvement Plan, based on the options prepared by their actuaries, to present to the union and the company. If the trustees deadlock (company vs. union trustees), the matter goes to expedited arbitration.
By December 1, 2008 (over a year from now) a pension plan must announce their improvement plan, unless there is an impasse.
That plan must go into effect by December 2009, two years from now.
How Will a New UPS Contract Affect This Process?
Under the law, Teamster pension funds must adjust their funding plans based on any new pension money that is negotiated in the UPS contract—whenever the contract is settled.
A new contract does not have to be ratified by January 1.
When the UPS contract is settled, fund actuaries and trustees will adjust their Funding Improvement Plans based on the new money projected in the contract.
If a notice went out to members on April 1 that a plan is in the Yellow Zone and the money negotiated by the UPS contract puts the fund in the Green Zone, then a new notice would go out and the fund would be freed up to make pension improvements.
The Bottom Line
The goal of the Pension Protection Act is to get multi-employer plans to move their funding levels up to 80 percent over the next ten to fifteen years.
It is a long-term process. No plan needs to be adopted until December 1, 2008, over a year from now, and none needs to be put into effect until a year after that.
Any contract improvements that are won—at any time—will be taken into account.
The UPS contract does not need to be settled by January 1 for us to win pension improvements.
The key to improving our pensions is to make sure we make UPS put its very best offer on the table—whenever that is. Teamsters should review the proposed early agreement carefully.
Cast your informed vote based on whether you think this is the best contract we can win—not rumors or empty threats about January 1.
January 1 Is Not a Deadline for Contract Ratification
Rumors are flying that the UPS contract must be ratified by January 1 because of pension legislation that takes effect on that date.
Make UPS Deliver consulted with actuaries, attorneys and fund managers to cut through the rumors and provide members with the facts.
Here is a summary of the real deal on the Pension Protection Act and what it means for our contract and pensions.
January 1: A Kickoff, Not a Deadline
Some provisions of the Pension Protection Act go into effect on January 1.
This date is the kickoff of a long-term timeline for strengthening funds over 10 to 15 years.
It is not a deadline by which the UPS contract needs to be ratified for UPS Teamsters to avoid pension cuts or win pension improvements.
The Pension Protection Act does include a series of deadlines that must be met by Teamster pension funds.
We will review the critical dates on this timeline in this article.
A benefit consulting firm that advises many Teamster funds, the Segal Group, also produced a detailed timeline of these deadlines.
What Happens on January 1?
On January 1, 2008, the funding portions of the Pension Protection Act go into effect.
As a result, Teamster pension funds will have to certify their funding levels (Green Zone, Yellow Zone or Red Zone) and inform participants and the government of their status.
This process does not occur immediately on January 1, but can take up to 90 days.
On April 1, 2008, fund actuaries have to certify the status of the plan. If a plan is under-funded, then it must notify participants, the union, the company, and the government by May 1, 2008—120 days after January 1.
Yellow Zone and Red Zone
If a pension plan is under-funded, it will be certified by the fund actuary as in the Yellow Zone or the Red Zone.
The Yellow Zone means the fund is less than 80 percent funded.
The Red Zone means that the fund is seriously under-funded and also has a short-term credit balance deficiency (a technical calculation that indicates a more short-term problem than the funding level).
Being under 65 percent funded will not automatically place a pension plan in the Red Zone.
The Central States Plan will not be in Red Zone. In fact, few Teamster plans with UPSers will be fall in the Red Zone, if any.
Funds Have Until December 31, 2008 to Set Plans to Improve Funding
If a plan is in the Yellow Zone or Red Zone, the plan’s actuary will then come up with at least two options to get the funding level up toward 80 percent over the next ten or 15 years.
These options include increasing employer contributions, and/or decreasing future pension accruals.
In no case will your accrued benefits be cut. What you have already earned is safe.
For any plan under 80 percent funded, the trustees will adopt a Funding Improvement Plan, based on the options prepared by their actuaries, to present to the union and the company. If the trustees deadlock (company vs. union trustees), the matter goes to expedited arbitration.
By December 1, 2008 (over a year from now) a pension plan must announce their improvement plan, unless there is an impasse.
That plan must go into effect by December 2009, two years from now.
How Will a New UPS Contract Affect This Process?
Under the law, Teamster pension funds must adjust their funding plans based on any new pension money that is negotiated in the UPS contract—whenever the contract is settled.
A new contract does not have to be ratified by January 1.
When the UPS contract is settled, fund actuaries and trustees will adjust their Funding Improvement Plans based on the new money projected in the contract.
If a notice went out to members on April 1 that a plan is in the Yellow Zone and the money negotiated by the UPS contract puts the fund in the Green Zone, then a new notice would go out and the fund would be freed up to make pension improvements.
The Bottom Line
The goal of the Pension Protection Act is to get multi-employer plans to move their funding levels up to 80 percent over the next ten to fifteen years.
It is a long-term process. No plan needs to be adopted until December 1, 2008, over a year from now, and none needs to be put into effect until a year after that.
Any contract improvements that are won—at any time—will be taken into account.
The UPS contract does not need to be settled by January 1 for us to win pension improvements.
The key to improving our pensions is to make sure we make UPS put its very best offer on the table—whenever that is. Teamsters should review the proposed early agreement carefully.
Cast your informed vote based on whether you think this is the best contract we can win—not rumors or empty threats about January 1.
Doesn't mean they will put any effort into it. Hmmmm, kind of like most newb part-timers today.
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This is way off topic but when is the last time you tried to use the windshield washer fluid button in a 20 year old 800. The container in my 500 has a big hole in it. I don't think there's been any fluid in there for a long time
GuyinBrown
Blah
The container in my 500 has a big hole in it. I don't think there's been any fluid in there for a long time
So it's YOUR fault they have to buy so much!
satellitedriver
Senior Member
True, but it is the day that the snowball starts rolling down the hill.
The longer it rolls on, the bigger mess at the bottom.
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
Hit the nail on the head!!!!!! Most of us do not mind taking smaller raises but all the give backs and split raises are BS!!!!! Do the UPS shippers pay half their bill on the 1st of the month and half on the 15th???? NO they pay the bill in full when done!!!!! I want my raise all at once thank you! It sure seems like there were FEW if any real improvements to work conditions, grievance procedures, new full time jobs, and protecting full time jobs that we had!!! We had 3 drivers quit and 2 go into management with cover drivers replacing them!!!
Braveheart
You say you want your raise all at once. If UPS puts up 6.1 billion dollars and let's assume there are 250,000 people that are getting some kind of benefit from this large contribtion. That comes out to $24,400./ person.
That is one hell of a raise!!!!!!!!
The proposed raises are fair in addition to the additional increases in health and welfare. Maybe the real route of the problem is that the dues need to be far above the current levels. Despite the fact that UPS contributes to my benefits, health, dental, eye care, disability insurance, life insurance etc.... It costs me almost $300.00/ month out of my pocket.
You also know what, as a stock holder, I'm not happy about $6.1 billion dollars going towards fixing this CS Mess.
Rmember the big fish always eats the little ones
You say you want your raise all at once. If UPS puts up 6.1 billion dollars and let's assume there are 250,000 people that are getting some kind of benefit from this large contribtion. That comes out to $24,400./ person.
That is one hell of a raise!!!!!!!!
The proposed raises are fair in addition to the additional increases in health and welfare. Maybe the real route of the problem is that the dues need to be far above the current levels. Despite the fact that UPS contributes to my benefits, health, dental, eye care, disability insurance, life insurance etc.... It costs me almost $300.00/ month out of my pocket.
You also know what, as a stock holder, I'm not happy about $6.1 billion dollars going towards fixing this CS Mess.
Rmember the big fish always eats the little ones
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