Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[1989]

I remember striking to keep the central states in 97. Where did that get us? Ten years later UPS is able to cut their losses. UPS was right on that issue. And now have to bail out. That costs more money now than it would have then. Therefore less money now for all the things you want. If you want socialized health care move to Canada.

 

[agitator]

I want what everyother industrialized nation has...i want what our "representatives" have in wahsington dc... how bout medicare for everyone...if " socialized medicine " is alright by our eldedrly..why not the rest of us

 

[1989]

Do you also want to pay their taxes. That will come out of your pay, and the big raise you want. I don't want to have to rely on medicare.

 

[Braveheart]

I havent heard anything on the pension. What happens to us lucky employees that are in CS. People with 10, 15, 20, and 25 yrs vested
with cs, what happens with those years? Is UPS moving those vested years into the new fund or will we left for dead in cs?
What about strong 9.5 language? Filing a 9.5 grievance today is a joke.

I agree with the 9.5 comment. You should be paid dble time automatically! I have filed many and yes many were paid. I think not all though and it took us a couple years in to get them paid. This contract we are in was a real let down. Best contract ever my ass!

 

[agitator]

Do you also want to pay their taxes. That will come out of your pay, and the big raise you want. I don't want to have to rely on medicare.

We already spend more per capita than all the other industrial nations...and get less...a national plan would actually cost less since profits and private bureaucracy and overhead would be cut out...mediacer presently has only 3% overhead, while private plans are much higher, as high as 20%...now that s waste...on raise...well if ups didnt have to pay high prices for prescriptions and medical care, we would see more $ in our salary..on medicare: the elderly seem to love it if the govt doesnt privatize it

..IM still voting NO!

 

[Braveheart]

The Economics of the Tentative Agreement

Our International Union continues to keep a tight lid on facts about the tentative agreement.

But Make UPS Deliver has obtained some information about the outlines of the economic package.

The tentative deal provides for wage increases of $4 an hour over the life of the contract. Annual wage increases will be 70¢-75¢-75¢-85¢-95¢. A portion of each wage increase would be delayed six months, until February of the following year.

Under the tentative deal, UPS would contribute $1 an hour more each year toward our benefits. This would be split between pension and health and welfare.

The tentative deal includes concessions that would lengthen the wage progression to 36 months. This is the second contract in a row that Hoffa has given in to the company's demand to increase the progression by six months. If the agreement is approved, it would take a driver three years to get up to top pay.

The new deal would also lengthen the probationary period to 60 days.

Economic Gains Not as Big as 2002 Contract

Chief negotiators James Hoffa and hall promised the “Richest Contract Ever” but the new tentative deal actually provides for smaller percentage gains than the 2002 “Best Contract Ever.”

While the tentative agreement includes approximately $9 an hour in wage and benefit improvements compared to $8.75 over six years in 2002, this amounts to a smaller percentage increase than the current contract.

• * The 2002 contract delivered wage and benefit increases of 27.57 percent over the length of the contract. In comparison, the current agreement provides for a total increase of just 22.22 percent.

• * Over five years, the new tentative deal would average increases in wages and benefits of 4.4 percent per year. Over six years, the 2002 contract averaged higher wage and benefit increases of 4.6 percent per year.

Contracts are compared by percentage, because a dollar in 2008 is not the same as a dollar in 2002.

Under this proposed contract full-time wages would likely fall behind inflation. To keep pace with inflation of three percent a year, we would need to negotiate wage increases of 85¢, 87¢, 90¢, 92¢, and 95¢, or $4.49 over the life of the agreement—compared to the $4 actually negotiated.

Tentative Agreement Would Put Money into Benefits

As expected, the tentative agreement puts more money into pensions and healthcare than wages. Many members are greatly concerned about pensions and health care. But more than what is paid in, members want to know what benefit improvements will be coming.

There are reports that in the Central States Area, retiree health care for 30-and-out retirees will be available for $200 per month ($400 to include spouse). However, we await detailed information in writing.

Bend over boys! Looks like the teamsters got screwed again! 3 yr wage proggession for full time drivers, minimal raises w/the slap in the face 2 raises a year(cant even give ya 70 cents at one time). Wow a multibillion dollar company cant even give there hard working employees wages to keep up with inflation. What a joke. Nice jobb HOFFA!!!!!!!!!! SHi*ty contract!!!

Great Job on helping out the part-timers too!

I can not believe we are going to allow them to split up our raises. Are they going to split up managers raises, bonuses, stock, 401K matching funds? We are already taking smaller % wise raises than we were getting before! Why do we have to be strung along by them too?!?! The accounting deprtment must hate this as well. All it does is make more profit for UPS holding the other half of our money!

 

[Braveheart]

Its people like agitator that give UPS and the union a bad name.

When did he register for the browncafe?? Sept 07! For what reason?

To smear and take advantage by distorting the facts about the contract offer and demean both the Company and the union.

Take a stand and don't let foolish influences like this character have any affect on your right to vote for what you believe in.

Just another TDU prankster...

You joined in FEB 2007? Everybody is here to have their say.

 

[Braveheart]

Yes, I agree that many here don't realize how well they have it! By the sounds of some of these posts you'd think they were given a cut in pay and their hours doubled...

A company isn't in business for over 100 years, staying competitive against other carriers that pay way less not knowing how to plan for the future of it's over 400,000 employees by simply just caving in to the demands of the greedy but rather to the ways of a fair days pay for a fair days work.

I have to agree that a 25% raise after 90 days is a damn good deal and a part-time job anywhere is not one to be expected to make a full-time living off of.

Do you think waiting a year for benefits is good or 18 months for the rest of your family? Do you think doubling the probationary period from 30 days to 60 days is fair? I do not think keeping a person on the hook for 12 weeks, if he or she works everyday, is fair! 6 weeks and or 30 days was more than fair. I do not mind smaller raises or even flat 50 cent yearly raises to help the pension and health care. But that is as far as I go in give backs or trade offs! Hoffa is selling us down the river.

 

[Braveheart]

UPS is one of the best blue collar jobs in America! Top salary is onver $28 per hour, for full-timers. The waiting list for full time jobs in most places is 5 years and 15 years to be a feeder driver. Take a look around you! You guys have it better than most! The Teamsters have also hobbled your #1 competitor fedex ground in California, and up coming in many other states. The 3 year wage progression is pretty standard. A guy with experience is worth more than a guy without. A part timer gets a 25% raise after 90 days? Is that really unfair? This web sight should be called the disgruntled browncafe.

Did you wait 3 years to get sick days? Did you wait a year to get benefits and 18 months for your family. And what if your wife gets cancer at month 13? Sorry pre-existing condition not covered. Did you have 60 day probationary period? All of us that have been here over 15 years could say who gives a crap about new hires and part timers right? But you see many of us came from part time and remember all the trucks we loaded year after year. I am voting no for the little guy, the part timer, the new hire!

 

[Braveheart]

I say NO! I've been a driver for 22 years (local 804) and this is the worst yet! A Split raise? You got to be kidding. UPS should be ashamed of them selves and the union too for even considering this. No increase in our pension! That means at the end of this proposed contract we will have gone 11 years without an increase. This is all give backs. The company is making out big time if this passes. You have to realize UPS is making money hand over fist. It's not like they're bleeding red ink. Let the workers get their fair share. I'm voting no! Let them go back to the table and negotiate something thats fair!!

I agree! Hoffa talked of how the last contract was the best ever! How do we know if this contract wil really protect our pensions. We have Central States and about a year after "The best contract ever" we had pensions cut in half and cuts to health care! UPS could just as easily alter our pensions and health care if they wanted. IBM canceled their pension plan.

 

[Braveheart]

TDU WEB SITE IS STATING THAT THE PENSIONS WILL BE RESTORED TO PREE 2003 LEVELS.25 AND OUT AT $2500.,30 AND OUT AT $3000. AND ELIMINATE THE PENALTY FOR RETIRING BEFORE 62.
THE WEB SITE IS makeUPSdeliver.org. GUESS WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE THE REAL DEAL. THAT WOULD BE A WELLL LIKED THOUGH.

Yes restoring the pension to the old levels is a good thing. But they are old levels! People, it is about to be 2008 not 2003! Why were these levels not adjusted a little higher? I pointed this out 5 years ago when they were not raised in the "best contract ever" by Hoffa! Don't forget these levels will be locked in for another 6 YEARS too until 2013!!!!!!!

 

[gandydancer]

Yes, I agree that many here don't realize how well they have it! By the sounds of some of these posts you'd think they were given a cut in pay and their hours doubled...

A company isn't in business for over 100 years, staying competitive against other carriers that pay way less not knowing how to plan for the future of it's over 400,000 employees by simply just caving in to the demands of the greedy but rather to the ways of a fair days pay for a fair days work.

I have to agree that a 25% raise after 90 days is a damn good deal and a part-time job anywhere is not one to be expected to make a full-time living off of.

(1) It IS a cut in pay. You've heard of inflation, right. IN-FLAY-SHUN. Look it up. Like, $3 gas. Maybe $6 in 2013. Yes, UPS pays it too. But so does FedEx. That's why UPS gets to add a fuel surcharge to its rates whenever it can signal FedEx and DHL to do the same and still make lots of money. But it's not a reopener for us.

(2)And why are we going BACKWARDS on making seniority and progression and medical benefits for parttimers and god knows what else we haven't heard about yet? It's not like they're buying us off with money.

(3)Starting parttimers at 1980(!) wages (plus 50 cents) is just management stupidity. Bad point when you're trying to hire and it won't save them much money. But not giving medical benefits for new hires is (a)a huge wage cut for them and (b)a real blow to everybody else's health plans. I think I saw someone say the capitation is about $14/hr, and the value lost to new hires (effective wage cut) is maybe half that on average (mostly they're young and healthy). The other half subsidizes the health benefits the rest of us get (and won't if they're not on the rolls, so expect even worse benefit cuts than otherwise).

Not going backwards is a "demand of the greedy"? You wear a tie at work? Sounds like it.

 

[brownboxman]

So even if the "details" are true, it seems nobody in here thinks the $6 billion figures in. Well I would think that the company looks at that as a major give in. Wonder how much more that would give us in compensation. Not that we should not have helped CS but c'mon it surely plays a part in the reason we aren't getting COLA.

 

[Damok]

..IM still voting NO!

Ok ladies and gentlemen... If I could have your attention please! We need it very very quiet as we are witnessing one of the more elusive creatures in the internet world. If you look out the right hand side of the vehicle you can barely make out a cowering shape hiding in the bushes. We don't want to scare it off! Is it? YES! it is! It's a Forum Troll folks! They are plentiful but difficult to corral, they make great use of anonymity and find cover behind false information and rhetoric.


Anyway, to be serious now. I would hope most folks here are genuinely interested in the contract information and are able to be discerning when it comes to the information they get. The OP (original poster) put out some information that, as I said in a previous post, may or may not be true and I would ask that people take it for what it is. Let's wait until we get details straight from the horses mouth and then come back and have a serious and CIVIL discussion. We can then weigh the pros and cons and make our own decision - NOT the decision of someone else.

I will be more than willing to discuss how I will vote and precisely why I will vote that way. I just hate seeing threads like this start off bad and degenerate into a schoolyard tussle.

 

[HazMatMan]

Wow, that's a perfect example of an informed intelligent way to put the future of you and your family in jeopardy.

Just vote no regardless!!

Look at the offer and vote yes, now tell me who is intelligent.

 

[nhguy]

Agitator,

You constantly talk about how the driver is the whole company and the only reason the company stays in business. I think all the hub people both a:m and p:m might have something to say about that. I can also assure you that without a good management team NO COMPANY would continue to stay in business let alone for 100 years. You keep drawing this old sad story of them against us. I can assure you that people in the management ranks are getting 2-2.5% pay raises each year, so what makes you think your special and deserve more than your boss.

Secondly, it is not UPS'S responsibility to solve the health care problem in the US. They are paying more and more each year so you can keep what you have today. Write your congressman if you want change in the government, and by the way, let me know how that goes!!

Lastly, just for your information, UPS knew 2 contracts ago that many of the pension funds were in trouble and that this day was coming to a head. Maybe go back to Ron Carey and ask him why he was so adamant about keeping the pension out of the companies hands. Guess what, the hand came begging for forgiveness and now UPS has to pony up over $6 billion dollars to save this one pension fund. If you really think about it, that is why this may not be the greatest contract for you as an individual. In negotiations, it is known that both sides give and take. It is foolish for you to think that the union can constantly expect to keep adding without ever subtracting.

Wait till you see all the facts then decide what is best for you, but also allow all the others to decide what is best for them and their families....

Remember the big fish always eats the little ones!

 

[HazMatMan]

Anyone who votes before they have all the information is making an uninformed mistake!

How could you vote before you know all the details??

Wait till you're informed, don't let people persuade you with their propaganda.

Your acting like this Philly character has some kind of credibility when this is his only post on Browncafe. He was probably sent here or came here soley to discredit the contract no matter how good or bad it really turns out to be.... you just don't know.

Wake up and think for yourselves and quit acting like a bunch of lemmings taking a long walk off a short pier!!

I WAS informed by my Shop Steward, and I vote no. It is my right as an American citizen to vote isn't it?????

 

[HazMatMan]

Yes, I agree that many here don't realize how well they have it! By the sounds of some of these posts you'd think they were given a cut in pay and their hours doubled...

A company isn't in business for over 100 years, staying competitive against other carriers that pay way less not knowing how to plan for the future of it's over 400,000 employees by simply just caving in to the demands of the greedy but rather to the ways of a fair days pay for a fair days work.

I have to agree that a 25% raise after 90 days is a damn good deal and a part-time job anywhere is not one to be expected to make a full-time living off of.

A part-timer gets a 25% raise after 90 days??? please explain. I know a part-timer starts at either 8.50 or 9.50 an hour and gets a 50 cents raise after 90 calender days. Explain how that is a 25% raise. Unless I misread your post.

 

[HazMatMan]

Wow, that's a perfect example of an informed intelligent way to put the future of you and your family in jeopardy.

Just vote no regardless!!

No, it's not putting my families future in jeapordy by voting no, I was given the proposals, I didn't like what I heard, so I am voting no. If enough people vote no and it gets turned down then it's back to the tables where a better contract most likely would be worked out THUS giving me and my families future a better outlook. How many contracts have you been around for??? Are you even union???? Are you happy with the proposals???

 

[Damok]

I WAS informed by my Shop Steward, and I vote no. It is my right as an American unionized worker to vote no to a contract proposal isn't it??

I think the point is that any information given out now is speculative. It may or may not be true but the point remains we should reserve judgement until all details are made public. To do otherwise is to jump the gun and seems a bit silly and for some to come here and espouse rumors as gospel is irresponsible.