Youth Group Question From Last Night: God can’t allow sin into heaven? (OnTopic-No bible verses please)

Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
zubenelgenubi said:
I've got an answer to this. God came to earth in the form of a man. There were plenty of rocks that, though they would have moved themselves at his command, he would have been physically unable to lift.
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In a church I at times attend it is taught that Jesus is fully man and fully God simultaneously.
 
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SLW

Well-Known Member
@zubenelgenubi Sorry, pretty pedantic on my part, only said it bc Integrity picked up on it, too. "God came to earth in the form of a man" seems to imply that Christ was fully God but just had the form of a man, rather than also being a fully human person/nature. Not trying to turn this into a Christology thread, but it is relevant to the omnipotence paradox.
 
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zubenelgenubi

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
SLW said:
@zubenelgenubi Sorry, pretty pedantic on my part, only said it bc Integrity picked up on it, too. "God came to earth in the form of a man" seems to imply that Christ was fully God but just had the form of a man, rather than also being a fully human person/nature. Not trying to turn this into a Christology thread, but it is relevant to the omnipotence paradox.
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Ok, I wasn't picking up what you guys had inferred based on what I wrote. I didn't think I would need to clarify among people who have heard the story of Jesus' conception and birth.
 
S

SLW

Well-Known Member
zubenelgenubi said:
Ok, I wasn't picking up what you guys had inferred based on what I wrote. I didn't think I would need to clarify among people who have heard the story of Jesus' conception and birth.
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Agreed, I just assumed we were all operating on a more or less orthodox Christological background. Always a chance someone is LDS or Jehovah's Witness or whatever though.
 
Integrity

Integrity

Binge Poster
The real question the young person was asking in the OP was really :
Is anything impossible for God?

Or is there something like allowing sin into heaven impossible for God?

What say you??
 
imwell

imwell

I'm as productive as the methods allow.
Integrity said:
The real question the young person was asking in the OP was really :
Is anything impossible for God?

Or is there something like allowing sin into heaven impossible for God?

What say you?
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The answer holds wisdom. So it does require a level of understanding to discern its application; but here it is:

"Just because we have the Right to do something, does not mean that it is the Right thing to do."

Can you "see" what that is saying ?

I do not mean to belittle, or insult, anyone. It's just that I have found, over the years, when I have shared this, it's returned with a healthy 50% "deer in the headlights" look: quickly followed by the words: "What does THAT mean???"

It's a "lens", one way of looking at the many decisions we make every day. But often, it is never used.
The world today (as a whole) does not teach this anymore. Not in academia. Not in the church.
I'm finding that it's quickly becoming a "lost lens".

So, again , to answer the young students question:

God Certainly "could" allow sin into heaven, But Would HE? Should HE? Is it the "Right" thing to do?

So, in HIS ultimate wisdom, whatever decision The Father would make, we can be assured that it IS
The Right Thing To Do.
 
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BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
What makes anyone think that God, like some indulgent father, will just turn His head and allow sin in His presence?
The justice and holiness of a righteous God who cannot tolerate the presence of sin, allow it in heaven?
I think to even suggest it, falls just a little short of blasphemy.
 
B

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
SLW said:
@zubenelgenubi Sorry, pretty pedantic on my part, only said it bc Integrity picked up on it, too. "God came to earth in the form of a man" seems to imply that Christ was fully God but just had the form of a man, rather than also being a fully human person/nature. Not trying to turn this into a Christology thread, but it is relevant to the omnipotence paradox.
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Philippians 2:7&8 are the verses ...but he emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross"
Deity can never stop being deity.
The text says that he "emptied himself," but that emptying himself is to be taken with "taking the form of a servant," and "being made in likeness as a man." So the , "emptying himself' was not an "undressing" (a divestiture) , but rather a "clothing upon."
The KJV renders it, he "made himself of no reputation." How?
By robbing himself in the "body of humiliation" physical (Phil. 3:21), emptying himself by what he took on, not by what he divested., "The word became flesh" (1:14). Isaiah 53 (quoted by Luke in Acts 8:33) referred to Jesus' fleshly life and death as his "humiliation."
Man is mortal and corruptible (1 Cor. 15:53), occupying a body in which we groan, longing to be unclothed, that we might be clothed upon by immortality (2 Cor. 5:4),
"little lower than the angels" (Heb. 2:7). Jesus "emptied himself' in that he "made himself of no reputation" by taking on the fleshly form of manhood.
But he did this while retaining Godhood, for he was Immanuel, "God with us" (Matt. 1:23).
100% God 100% Man

God cannot be tempted( James 1:13) yet, Jesus was tempted in all points like we were, yet without sin. ( Hebrews 4:15)
How did he do it? The only man that has ever lived a sinless life.
If he had an advantage, he wasn't tempted like I am. ( LIKE WE ARE Heb.4:15)
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imwell

imwell

I'm as productive as the methods allow.
BrownFlush said:
What makes anyone think that God, like some indulgent father, will just turn His head and allow sin in His presence?
The justice and holiness of a righteous God who cannot tolerate the presence of sin, allow it in heaven?
I think to even suggest it, falls just a little short of blasphemy.
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Careful. Keep yourself humble.
This is The Father's ultimate wisdom, not ours.

Just because something "seems" certain to us, still take caution. HE tells that HIS ways are not our ways, HIS thoughts our not our thoughts.

The proof is in your own statement, your own words, your own "thoughts" (that are Not HIS).

Let's look at this together............
Above, you called it "a little short of blasphemy" that The Father would allow "sin in HIS presence".

And yet...................... HE HAS !

In Job, ............. " there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them." [1:6]

Yes ! Satan! Mr. Sin himself ! In Heaven !! In The Presence of The LORD !!! And then, they actually carried on a conversation: in Heaven!

Your conclusion was Bold. It was well thought out. It sounded good. But it was not "right".

This is what I was teaching in my previous post. This is why I spoke of having wisdom and discernment,

""God Certainly "could" allow sin into heaven, But Would HE? Should HE? Is it the "Right" thing to do?""

We have shown ourselves that we do not yet have the wisdom to answer this question so quickly, so easily.
 
Old Man Jingles

Old Man Jingles

Rat out of a cage
Integrity said:
While serving at Youth Group last night the Youth Pastor was teaching the Wordless Gospel using a bracelet.

He got to the second bracelet and among several statements one of the statements he made was “God can’t allow sin into heaven.”

One of the students said “I was taught God can do all things, now you are telling me he can’t allow sin in heaven. I don’t understand why the 2 different teachings?”

I really was intrigued by this thoughtful and thought provoking question by this young person.

What say you?

Please no Bible verses.

This doesn’t mean not to utilize the Bible as the reason for you personal opinion or beliefs but my desire in not for this thread to become “Bible Thumper” thread.
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God can do whatever he wishes ... no man determines God's actions or thoughts.
 
B

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
imwell said:
And yet...................... HE HAS !

In Job, ............. " there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them." [1:6]

Yes ! Satan! Mr. Sin himself ! In Heaven !! In The Presence of The LORD !!! And then, they actually carried on a conversation: in Heaven!
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Please reveal where it is said that this conversation took place in heaven.
imwell said:
Your conclusion was Bold. It was well thought out. It sounded good. But it was not "right".
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Your conclusion is without authority.
It wasn't well thought out.
It didn't sound good.
And it was not right.
imwell said:
This is what I was teaching in my previous post. This is why I spoke of having wisdom and discernment,
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To say that this verse reveals that Satan is in Heaven talking to God is without proper discernment and wisdom.
 
B

BrownFlush

Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
@imwell

Most scholars in discussing verse 6 conclude this never happened. It was parabolic. It was told and written that way by the Holy Spirit to set the stage for us.
 
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