F
Frankie's Friend
Guest
Depends on if you're in the IAM or the Teamsters union.
1997 Strike. Old heads only. On Topic.
- Thread starter Hethatbeking
- Start date
DELACROIX
In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
Or Peer 80 in the West.
We all know the issues with any failing pension plan..one of the solutions would of been having a constant flow of new participants to contribute to the plan. A lot of the blame on this has to do with the unions not adding members to pay for the older ones closer to retirement. What happens is the Central States mess and no one wants to take responsibility or find a solution. It appears that all parties involved is counting support from Washington and legislate a fair and equitable solution to help any retiree. Sometime we forget it isn't all about the UPS retiree or future retiree, a lot of people will be in a big hurt if the Central goes south permanently. I believe that the federal pension insurance plan is underfunded due to corporations ending traditional pension funds and switching to the 401k, putting the burden of the employee to pay for their own. Every Pension Plan has to pay for federal insurance to cover their participants if they happen to go into default, apparently there is not enough money in that fund to cover the huge Central with being in the red for 17.5 Billion.
So folks, here is were we are: Nobody has found a solution to this fiasco, the corporations do not want the responsibility to cover their retirees or future retirees. Hurts their bottom line and shareholders, so they are collecting record profits without being involved with the retiree's who helped them make them, or not really wanting to share. No appreciation, class or loyalty and they wonder why they have a workforce who doesn't give a damn anymore, you reap what you sow, that applies to our management groups also.
The Feds do not have the money in their pension insurance to cover these failing plans and do not want to be holding the bag. Blame has to go to those agencies who were put into place to prevent these problems. Is the Department of Labor just full of empty suits with no real power to come down hard when they see these corporations finding loopholes in the system and bail out on their retirees. The whole ERISA act is a joke without real teeth to sent a message to those that are committing Fraud and Concealment.
The Union has no plan to fix this problem and is counting on Federal help especially with the Central, the small union controlled plans in the east can be solved they are no way approaching the Central's underfunded liability. With the Unions not growing or remain stagnate they have played a major role with this problem, they have been too busy covering up instead of counterpunching with the agencies investigating their corruption problems, playing politics and mind games with the membership. They never advanced into the 21 century, so continue the business as usual mentality and secret backdoor closed negotiations, hiding information from their membership and thinking we are so stupid that we will fall for anything if they throw a little eye candy bonus (retro) in the pot.
We all know the issues with any failing pension plan..one of the solutions would of been having a constant flow of new participants to contribute to the plan. A lot of the blame on this has to do with the unions not adding members to pay for the older ones closer to retirement. What happens is the Central States mess and no one wants to take responsibility or find a solution. It appears that all parties involved is counting support from Washington and legislate a fair and equitable solution to help any retiree. Sometime we forget it isn't all about the UPS retiree or future retiree, a lot of people will be in a big hurt if the Central goes south permanently. I believe that the federal pension insurance plan is underfunded due to corporations ending traditional pension funds and switching to the 401k, putting the burden of the employee to pay for their own. Every Pension Plan has to pay for federal insurance to cover their participants if they happen to go into default, apparently there is not enough money in that fund to cover the huge Central with being in the red for 17.5 Billion.
So folks, here is were we are: Nobody has found a solution to this fiasco, the corporations do not want the responsibility to cover their retirees or future retirees. Hurts their bottom line and shareholders, so they are collecting record profits without being involved with the retiree's who helped them make them, or not really wanting to share. No appreciation, class or loyalty and they wonder why they have a workforce who doesn't give a damn anymore, you reap what you sow, that applies to our management groups also.
The Feds do not have the money in their pension insurance to cover these failing plans and do not want to be holding the bag. Blame has to go to those agencies who were put into place to prevent these problems. Is the Department of Labor just full of empty suits with no real power to come down hard when they see these corporations finding loopholes in the system and bail out on their retirees. The whole ERISA act is a joke without real teeth to sent a message to those that are committing Fraud and Concealment.
The Union has no plan to fix this problem and is counting on Federal help especially with the Central, the small union controlled plans in the east can be solved they are no way approaching the Central's underfunded liability. With the Unions not growing or remain stagnate they have played a major role with this problem, they have been too busy covering up instead of counterpunching with the agencies investigating their corruption problems, playing politics and mind games with the membership. They never advanced into the 21 century, so continue the business as usual mentality and secret backdoor closed negotiations, hiding information from their membership and thinking we are so stupid that we will fall for anything if they throw a little eye candy bonus (retro) in the pot.
Pensions don't need to pay for anyone "closer" to retirement. It's a paper obligation until retirement and then pay status doesn't begin until application.
But of course, blame unions for companies/government actions?
Before the effects of deregulation took hold, the CSPF once had over 1700 freight companies participating. Wanna guess how many are left? Count your fingers on one hand. Now guess how many of those good corporate citizens paid off their obligations in full before they closed the doors or more likely changed the name on their doors and reopened.
Ever hear of XPO/Conway/Consolidated Freight. See how easily Hostess went away and reemerged sans debt?
No union proposed deregulation.
No union suggested double breasting operations to escape pension obligations.
No union backed Bush's first piece of legislation allowing the easing of corporate bankruptcy laws (while tightening personal bankruptcy).
Hmmm, there have been solutions put forth and rejected. Tom Nyhan (CSPF) suggested a 10% reduction plan almost 10 years ago and was nearly crucified for it. No one wants to take a little less so they'll risk losing it all.
Now that one you hit out of the park!
Yet when the IBT negotiates increased full time UPS jobs that will add pension participants, these threads are full of comments deriding those solutions...
What'dyabringmetoday???
Well-Known Member
Let's see if there is actually an increase in full-time jobs. I would be interested to see where we are compared to 1997. Not that I would entirely believe what we are told.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
At one point, my Local had over 80 different freight companies and 15,000 members +.
We have exactly 5 now.... and less than 1/3 of the members.
-Bug-
What'dyabringmetoday???
Well-Known Member
With the amount of trucks on the road, it would "seem" that this wonderful union could entice a few people to join up...
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Stop at a truck stop for gas, and observe all the "independent" drivers.
99% of them.... could not get hired at UPS, for a multitude of reasons.
Years back my local union officials suggested stewards get involved in the Driver Trainer experiment. I obliged and came away with a curious respect for on roads who train off the street hires. As you astutely pointed out...there is a very good reason many of them are available for seasonal work.
Actually the Teamsters are more aggressively organizing than most unions, but organizing is successful only if members buy in and participate. Have you?
DELACROIX
In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
But... with the creation under this contract of only 5000 new full time jobs would that be enough to make any real improvements in the troubled pension plans also a .50 per hour increase (20 dollars a week)/.30 per hour in the part time benefit plans (12 dollars a week) be enough to provide some relieve or improve any of the Pension and Health and Welfare plans.
Back in "97" they negotiated 10,000 new full time 22.3's it was simply not enough to help the Central, hence the company jumping ship in 2007 after paying 6+ billion dollars to cover their liability. Look when these 5000 news jobs are being created, none the 1st year, the wording gives the Company the ability to create them in the last year of the contract of they want to, which they will. This contract does not provide enough monetary contributions to help any of the suffering Pension and Health and Welfare plans under Union control despite their claims.
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Future
Victory Ride
They always propose these 5000 new jobs ...lmao ...pretty sure it never happens
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Organizing new members, is the lifeblood any Union needs.
I have to scoff.... when people think it is so easy.
A True trade unionist, would participate.
Not make excuses.
-Bug-
IDK whether the amount is enough, but you proposed the union wasn't doing anything.
You also posted the guaranteed Feeder jobs that are now being brokered or tendered to the RR for transit.
If the 22.4 scheme is approved those also will be FT jobs and bennies.
Any increase in funding is better than no increase.
PT is and in many cases has been under the single employer UPS plan. Their rules re: funding are different.
We went over that, but it is another example disputing your theory of the IBT ignoring pension issues.
A better question is what would've been the impact on the CSPF had none of those 22.3's been negotiated?
Tell me to which plan do you provide actuarial service?
That's another wild claim of which you have no knowledge and is simply false.
The existing contribution plus the increase helps every plan, regardless of funding status.
But you're just pretty sure right? I mean you have no facts to back up that claim but you heard it from a guy...
Wasted strike. We gained nothing
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
That was the start but I remember they had messed with the profit sharing as well so we were pissed that they changed the rules whenever it suited them. The profits were high and they thought they were paying too much.
I remember the word coming down that they were only adding a nickel per year raise while the profits were record with the "new air business. I remember the phrase the company makes $4 profit on air and 4 cents per ground. Wonder what the numbers are now?
DELACROIX
In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier
I am in the package division and really not up to date on the new feeder language in this contract, I do not remember saying anything about Rail or Brokers. If there is any gain in full time jobs it is a plus I agree whole hardly with that statement.
I am in the Central and all our part timers are under the UPS Pension Plan. I noticed that if everybody is getting a 1 dollar increase total in our benefit plans and the part timers are only getting a .30 cent hourly increase in Health and Welfare is that remaining .70 cent hourly increase going toward their Pension? If so why wasn't their pension increased in the same manner as the most of the full timers, seems strange.
Correct the CSPF would be in worse shape if it wasn't for those 10,000 new inside jobs created after the "97" strike.
I should of posed the question better and put "Will the hourly increase of .50 cents annually be able to maintain or improve our Pension and Health and Welfare benefits?" (We really cannot see till all the Supplements and Riders are in), there is still a lot of TBA language under Article 34 regarding our benefit packages. If Healthcare cost goes down we win, if it increases we lose, we can't predict the future.
Most of us are reacting to half truths, rumors and lack of any true information so give grace to a lot of us who are spouting off, or grinding their axes. I believe that this contract is going to be extended for a long, long time, everybody be prepared for this. How it plays out will be interesting.
