22.4 Layoff

[542thruNthru]

Unless there is local language that specifically prevents him from driving then his position shouldn’t change, if he works 15 hours all week but they ask him to drive on Saturday, will they add the lost time and pay to his timecard?

If he's driving Saturday he should be a 22.4. so he should be demanding his 5/8 guarantee. The issue is he's being laid off and still driving. Which I believe shouldn't be happening. If your being laid off it means they don't need you for the position you were hired for. So you bump into the building to get your hours.

 

[...]

I mean, 22.3s who got laid off in my old hub from their regular positions (no matter what it was) didn't get paid less because they loaded trailers or something instead.

 

[Mst3k]

If a rpcd was put on layoff, had a car built for them with 200 air stops and had their pay cut to air rate. It wouldn’t fly

 

[542thruNthru]

I mean, 22.3s who got laid off in my old hub from their regular positions (no matter what it was) didn't get paid less because they loaded trailers or something instead.

Again it would depend on your layoff language. So areas you don't suffer a wage reduction. Some you do.

 

[542thruNthru]

If a rpcd was put on layoff, had a car built for them with 200 air stops and had their pay cut to air rate. It wouldn’t fly.

Well now we're just making up crazy scenarios. Especially since 200 air stops on one car would be pretty damn impossible lol. But I'll play along.

Why wouldn't it fly. If he has the seniority to perform the air work he would be paid at article 40 rate for that day. If all he is delivering is air than he not a RPCD.

 

[burrheadd]

A 22.4 should never be laid off they have seniority over all part timers no?

 

[542thruNthru]

A 22.4 should never be laid off they have seniority over all part timers no?

Depends on the language.
Let's look at NorCal since it's been mentioned.

Full-time employees laid off in excess of five (5) consecutive working days, may, in the order of their seniority, elect to displace one (1) or two (2) part-time employees for the duration of the layoff, provided the employee has more Company seniority than the part-timer(s) involved. Rates of pay will be based on Company seniority and the classification of the work the employee performs.

So if you're a 22.4 with 6 months seniority and every PTer is a year or more. Than no you don't have seniority over them when laid off. Also in this case your pay would drop to what the seniority and classification would dictate. So $15.33 an hour if all you had was 6 months.

 

[burrheadd]

Do different ryders have different language on this

 

[542thruNthru]

Do different ryders have different language on this

Yes.

 

[burrheadd]

Yes.

Wouldn’t expect anything else

 

[Mst3k]

Well now we're just making up crazy scenarios. Especially since 200 air stops on one car would be pretty damn impossy lol. But I'll play along.

Why wouldn't it fly. If he has the seniority to perform the air work he would be paid at article 40 rate for that day. If all he is delivering is air than he not a RPCD.

Ok, I admit that my hypothetical wasn’t the best, the company could use air language to justify it despite my hub not having used air drivers in several years now.

However 22.4 language includes inside work as well and driving and I do not remember seeing language in those sections that state that they have to drive every day. Although I could be wrong about that, I’m not a 22.4 and have not read it in a few years

 

[542thruNthru]

Ok, I admit that my hypothetical wasn’t the best, the company could use air language to justify it despite my hub not having used air drivers in several years now.

However 22.4 language includes inside work as well and driving and I do not remember seeing language in those sections that state that they have to drive every day. Although I could be wrong about that, I’m not a 22.4 and having read it in a few years

It doesn't say they have to driver everyday. You are correct about that. Essentially it's a loop hole. Company says they don't need them as 22.4 combination driver's because there is not enough work to justify it (yet he is driving so it's BS in my opinion). So they utilize the layoff language in the contract to send them back into the building at a lower rate and different shifts so they can also get around the 90min gap language for 22.4s between shifts.

 

[Brown287]

I’m in NorCal and currently my building has layoffs. We’re RTOing up to 20 a day in my center as well. Our hope is that once vacations get going that it may help stabilizing things a bit. Other buildings around us are dealing with the same issue. Amazon is the culprit and they are currently putting up buildings like tents at summer camp. South of my area just got a new Amazon building and south of there Amazon is building a 2.8 million square foot facility.

 

[542thruNthru]

I’m in NorCal and currently my building has layoffs. We’re RTOing up to 20 a day in my center as well. Our hope is that once vacations get going that it may help stabilizing things a bit. Other buildings around us are dealing with the same issue. Amazon is the culprit and they are currently putting up buildings like tents at summer camp. South of my area just got a new Amazon building and south of there Amazon is building a 2.8 million square foot facility.

They are going up like crazy here as well. We have volunteer organizers outside all the time trying to get members to get involved in taking on Amazon. 99% don't care and think it won't effect them. They'll find out soon enough how wrong they are.

 

[Brown287]

They are going up like crazy here as well. We have volunteer organizers outside all the time trying to get members to get involved in taking on Amazon. 99% don't care and think it won't effect them. They'll find out soon enough how wrong they are.

It really is something how clueless or in denial so many UPSers are on the topic. Then again with as many that are uneducated on the contract it doesn’t surprise me.

 

[542thruNthru]

It really is something how clueless or in denial so many UPSers are on the topic. Then again with as many that are uneducated on the contract it doesn’t surprise me.

My steward is helping with the Amazon organizing. Know what he hears from most driver's. "Maybe the Teamsters should worry more about UPS instead of Amazon."

I've helped out many times and it amazes me how angry some people are. My local also set up a Amazon volunteer organizer training a few times. Mostly it was just stewards that showed up. Maybe 10 people max was the most attended day. Guess what... The training turned into complaining about 22.4s most times.

 

[MyTripisCut]

It doesn't say they have to driver everyday. You are correct about that. Essentially it's a loop hole. Company says they don't need them as 22.4 combination driver's because there is not enough work to justify it (yet he is driving so it's BS in my opinion). So they utilize the layoff language in the contract to send them back into the building at a lower rate and different shifts so they can also get around the 90min gap language for 22.4s between shifts.

Not enough work then shut down Saturday delivery.

 

[Brown287]

Organizing Amazon is imperative to the future of the UPS Teamster. Between higher wages for them keeping us competitive, it’s also the pension contributions that are needed. Less volume means less drivers and less drivers means less contributions.

 

[Brown287]

Not enough work then shut down Saturday delivery.

Won’t happen and as a matter of fact I see Sunday becoming the new norm, if not before definitely after our next contract.

 

[542thruNthru]

Not enough work then shut down Saturday delivery.

What gets me upset is 22.4s were made for Saturday delivery. I'm hearing they are being laid off but also being made to deliver on Saturday.

That's BS. If they are laid off then there should be no Saturday delivery. The Teamsters need to push that.