705 and 710 working together!

[cachsux]

"13) Work week now any 5 days in a 7 day week. Article 46"


It would almost be humorous to see what the absentee count would go to if this went through. Almost.

 

[tieguy]

But Tie,you haven`t debated anything yet. You just typed "propaganda" ,"koolaid", "bs", and tried to talk me into wearing high heels. .

Well Cach rumor is you're looking pretty hot in those high heels. And I hear the leather boots are too die for

What are your specific feelings on specific topics and why you think the companies proposal on that matter is the right one. That I could respect,otherwise we`re just sitting around with our thumbs up our behinds working on snappy comebacks.[/quote]

Nothing to talk about as I've said many times before until the final offer is on the table. I've explained the netotiation process. It does not change. I've highlighted your side's effort to market the negotiations to make it sound like they are beating a reluctant company across the head. The game is always the same every time the contract talks are negoiated. Nothing changes. I'm just surprised you guys don't also have the unions propaganda memorized by now. For some reason you guys are blind to it and gullibly follow the same line of BS hook , line and sinker.

 

[cachsux]

1) We have an economic proposal on the table which the company is not interested in discussing.

2) Seniority will now be measured by continous service with the employer. Article 44

3) on call feeder for 705. Article 48

4) If you now have an accident that involves medical treatment or a tow truck you could be fired, even if your not at fault. Article 18

5) Fmla, ups will guarantee you a job, not your job when you return to work.Article 16

6) Trying to restrict what steward can be used by an employee. Article 4

7) Ups and an employee can agree its ok for them to work for free before their start time. Article 17

8) Ups is not interested in our combo language. Article 22.3

9) any new ptime will not get paid holidays for 1 year. Article 22.16

10) language that could cost ups's work being diverted. Article 26.2

11) Same sex benefits. Article 36

12) The worst layoff language you will ever see. Article 44.1

13) Work week now any 5 days in a 7 day week. Article 46

14) Protection of bid start time language. Article 46

The list goes on and on aqnd we have 4 dates left to settle.

Tie,how do you feel about any of these topics,even as just your opinion?
I`ll start it out for you..."I feel this is good,or bad,for the company because.."

 

[brownman15]

Nothing to talk about as I've said many times before until the final offer is on the table. I've explained the netotiation process. It does not change. I've highlighted your side's effort to market the negotiations to make it sound like they are beating a reluctant company across the head. The game is always the same every time the contract talks are negoiated. Nothing changes. I'm just surprised you guys don't also have the unions propaganda memorized by now. For some reason you guys are blind to it and gullibly follow the same line of BS hook , line and sinker. [/QUOTE]

only 13 days until contract expires when is ups going 2 give us a proposal the last day

 

[brownman15]

1) We have an economic proposal on the table which the company is not interested in discussing.

2) Seniority will now be measured by continous service with the employer. Article 44

3) on call feeder for 705. Article 48

4) If you now have an accident that involves medical treatment or a tow truck you could be fired, even if your not at fault. Article 18

5) Fmla, ups will guarantee you a job, not your job when you return to work.Article 16

6) Trying to restrict what steward can be used by an employee. Article 4

7) Ups and an employee can agree its ok for them to work for free before their start time. Article 17

8) Ups is not interested in our combo language. Article 22.3

9) any new ptime will not get paid holidays for 1 year. Article 22.16

10) language that could cost ups's work being diverted. Article 26.2

11) Same sex benefits. Article 36

12) The worst layoff language you will ever see. Article 44.1

13) Work week now any 5 days in a 7 day week. Article 46

14) Protection of bid start time language. Article 46

The list goes on and on aqnd we have 4 dates left to settle.

Tie,how do you feel about any of these topics,even as just your opinion?
I`ll start it out for you..."I feel this is good,or bad,for the company because.."

i second that tie debate the facts that are proposed and not propaganda bs. tell us why u think the company will not give us a full proposal.

 

[705red]

How about article 53 were all new ftimers will now only get 40 hours of pay for vacations.

I put in the articles so you can go to the website and see what im talking about.

No propoganda here, just contract proposals from ups, which i might add they must have been stoned off of their butts to even consider sliding these across the table to us. How much drugs must one do in order to be this ridiculous?

 

[705red]

Nothing to talk about as I've said many times before until the final offer is on the table. I've explained the netotiation process. It does not change. I've highlighted your side's effort to market the negotiations to make it sound like they are beating a reluctant company across the head. The game is always the same every time the contract talks are negoiated. Nothing changes. I'm just surprised you guys don't also have the unions propaganda memorized by now. For some reason you guys are blind to it and gullibly follow the same line of BS hook , line and sinker.

Tie do you believe that ups would make that mistake again?

"The last best and final offer" Did they not send out an email to ensure management would never use that line again?

Tie you spout of as a savvy ups negotiator, can you spell out your negotiating skills, references?

Please do not include craigs list, everyone knows you can get at least 30 to 40% off her asking price if you drive to her. Even the working girl is feeling the gas prices and unlike ups she is not allowed to pass it on to the customer.

 

[tieguy]

Tie,how do you feel about any of these topics,even as just your opinion?
I`ll start it out for you..."I feel this is good,or bad,for the company because.."

To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.

a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.

I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.

 

[dillweed]

Dawg ,


....As much as Red and I will go toe to toe on this issues we still laugh about it on the sidelines. Take your gut out of it.

Well....I've only had half cup of coffee this AM and don't want to offend but this sounds like something that would go on at our center. Toe to toe in the office but going out to lunch together and laughing once the hourlies are gone. We have a rep who appears to do this.

 

[dillweed]

uh-oh I've probably offended both red and tie - two cups of coffee later--and apologize. It's possible for opposing sides to work against each other for the good of all, then get along later. It's part of business and I'm sure done everywhere.

An old cartoon, forget the name but a sheepdog and wolf clock in together then go head to head while on duty. Evil attempts by wolf to get those sheep and heroics by the dog to protect. Later, after clocking out they put their arms around each other and mosey off to enjoy the rest of their day.

We do have a rep at our center who is suspect of playing both sides but as bottom-of-food-chain hourlies, many of us don't understand the interworkings of the whole deal.

So again, sorry to have opened mouth prior to giving time for brain to wake up.

 

[Jones]

Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans.

Can you support that statement at all? I'm pretty sure the guys you work with are in local 639, and I doubt that the majority of non-union plans are better than what they have, especially the pension which I've been told is better than what UPS management recieves.

 

[tieguy]

uh-oh I've probably offended both red and tie - two cups of coffee later--and apologize. It's possible for opposing sides to work against each other for the good of all, then get along later. It's part of business and I'm sure done everywhere.

An old cartoon, forget the name but a sheepdog and wolf clock in together then go head to head while on duty. Evil attempts by wolf to get those sheep and heroics by the dog to protect. Later, after clocking out they put their arms around each other and mosey off to enjoy the rest of their day.

We do have a rep at our center who is suspect of playing both sides but as bottom-of-food-chain hourlies, many of us don't understand the interworkings of the whole deal.

So again, sorry to have opened mouth prior to giving time for brain to wake up.

No problem Dill , I don't think I worded that very well either. I can see where you get that impression. I just meant that Red and I don't hold grudges no matter how pig headed we get in a debate.

 

[tieguy]

Can you support that statement at all? I'm pretty sure the guys you work with are in local 639, and I doubt that the majority of non-union plans are better than what they have, especially the pension which is better than UPS management.

I probably should correct that statement. IAM is paying out a hefty 370 x years of service which may be the best pension payout I've seen anywhere. And I know the western conference is showing some recent health but overall I stand by my statement and no I'm not going to scan, import link and submit a 5 page thesis on why I believe what I believe. You don't have to look to far to see all the union pensions and health plans that are suffering despite the huge amounts of money being dumped into them by corporations. Many of them are still in a state of denial or still playing the blame the company game. I hope for the sake of their membership that they all wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Jones]

A quick search turned up this study done by the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Union workers are more likely than their nonunion counterparts to covered by health care and receive pension benefits

 

[705red]

To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.



a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.

I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.

Nice propaganda tie. Your new reitrement plan is better than the teamsters? If im correct a newer sup now has to work until hes 62, Right?
No matter what age he started at 16,17, 18.

You keep spouting off about the union not negotaiting in good faith, well we have asked for ptimers to start at $10.50 an hour and another buck for skilled positions. What will you say when we are walking, because ups wont pay a good ptime rate? Will you still come to chicago to drive feeder if thats one of the reasons we are out?

If you work for ups eventually you will need the union! The company will abuse to the point that you will be in the office begging to keep your job.
This is how the company acts they will fire you and then tell you your lucky to have a job.

Nice try tie!

 

[brownman15]

To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.

a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.

I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.

wrong tie union membership rose last year and union members averaged $200 more per week and pensions are better. u cannot retire in non union jobs with pension and health care after 30 yrs at any age so u Tie are the propaganda parade.

 

[tieguy]

Nice propaganda tie. Your new reitrement plan is better than the teamsters? If im correct a newer sup now has to work until hes 62, Right?
No matter what age he started at 16,17, 18.

My retirement plan is definitely better then the teamsters. 401 k match is the gift that makes it superior. All ups non-union have it. I'm envious of the newer sups new pension offer. a potable plan with a six percent match. Wish they would offer it to the rest of us. Sad thing is the teamsters will never negotiate a 401 k match for the drivers because they want all that pension money shoring up their leaking pension funds. The good news is the new federal laws will force better results for future ups teamsters. There will however be some pain for some as they get to better health.

 

[cachsux]

Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore.

I`ll tell you my number 1 reason. It`s to cover my butt when a member of management screws up and try to step aside and let those beneath him take the fall for him. It`s happened more times than I can count and is responsible for 90% of the paperwork I`ve ever filed.I don`t think I have ever spoken to a steward looking for more money or better health care but I know I have spoken to them plenty about Mgr X calling the wrong shots and then wanting us to take the hit when the heats on him.

 

[tieguy]

You keep spouting off about the union not negotaiting in good faith,

Red , Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I have not said any such thing.

I have talked about the union playing its propaganda game and I have talked about how gullible you guys are in to buying in to the same old tired rhetoric.

 

[705red]

Red , Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I have not said any such thing.

I have talked about the union playing its propaganda game and I have talked about how gullible you guys are in to buying in to the same old tired rhetoric.

This is not the same old tired rhetoric. This is still a fairly new administration, which for the most part had no more than steward experience when they took office. Besides a couple of agents this is the first contract they have negotiated and upto this point they have done a ggreat job, and tomorrows vote will send a message.