$8.50 'till 2013? What are they thinking?
- Thread starter KTB
- Start date
From what I understand, during negotiations, UPS comes to the Teamsters with an economics proposal that contains "x" number of dollars for wages. The Teamsters then split that money up and decide who gets what raises, ie. take of the employees that are already employed, or give it to the new hires. Now you know they would never get a contract ratified if all the wage money, or even a large portion of it, went to new hires.
The payback period for new hires is 13 weeks. Keep them to this point and the company breaks even. For those that believe that the new hires quite because they find the work to be hard, I would only suggest that you might be only seeing the symptoms to the problem. The problems lie in how the training department is managed and organized. UPS does not want to train new hires to stay with the company for years. They want to reduce turnover to build brand equity and to reduce training cost; however, at some point, this reduction of turnover becomes an additional cost. In other words, the cost for additional training for employees does not add to any increase in productivity. Therefore, the company looks for ways to reduce these individuals and seeks replacements. It all has to do with minimizing costs, building a positive image, and maximizing productivity. If they invested money in training new hires to stay longer than a year or two, the company would help the Union become stronger. Ignorance of the rank and file is the unions enemy.
What does this have to do with the new page rates? This is a way to prevent new hires from becoming long standing union members. This is a way to weaken the union an marginalizing the very few well paid full-times from the masses of short lived new hires. This has to do with turning a UPS job into a short lived transition job. This is an attack on the middle class.
I don't think it is even about voting NO on the contract. This is the lazy way of voicing your thoughts. Unions were never formed on a few votes. They were formed on many thoughts that spread through the masses. Union halls at one time were packed with brothers and sisters with a common goal. This goal was equity between an unjust capitalistic system. If you simple vote, you are only doing a small part in the battle to preserve the union for future generations. You should be developing discussions with your work group, building an understanding of the issues and topics, and pushing the Teamsters to FACILITATE and not
this process.
What does this have to do with the new page rates? This is a way to prevent new hires from becoming long standing union members. This is a way to weaken the union an marginalizing the very few well paid full-times from the masses of short lived new hires. This has to do with turning a UPS job into a short lived transition job. This is an attack on the middle class.
I don't think it is even about voting NO on the contract. This is the lazy way of voicing your thoughts. Unions were never formed on a few votes. They were formed on many thoughts that spread through the masses. Union halls at one time were packed with brothers and sisters with a common goal. This goal was equity between an unjust capitalistic system. If you simple vote, you are only doing a small part in the battle to preserve the union for future generations. You should be developing discussions with your work group, building an understanding of the issues and topics, and pushing the Teamsters to FACILITATE and not
this process.
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The problem is full time benefits for part time work. UPS should give an employee the choice of a higher hourly wage without benefits, or a the bargained wage at a lower rate.
The problem is that the union would never agree to that because they make money off of the benefits.l
The problem is that the union would never agree to that because they make money off of the benefits.l
blue efficacy
Well-Known Member
Yeah, lets punish those people that need benefits with a lower pay rate. That would make for some pretty damn expensive benefits.
bailey2227
Well-Known Member
I just read all the posts in this forum... what is this I hear about having to wait a year to 18 mths to receive benefits for myself and my family? I am going to be starting work on October 23rd. I am going to be working as a pre-loader. I am trying to find out when my benefits will actually kick in. My wife and I currently have no benefit coverage, so it's important that we know when the medical, dental, and vision will kick in for the both of us.
OldUPSDriver
Well-Known Member
Your in the free period, no benefits at all.
Foamer Pyle
Well-Known Member
This is not the first thread on this subject. A part-time job is exactly as stated, part-time. Part-time jobs=part-time pay. Why should UPS pay higher wages for part-time work? A part-time job is not meant to be the soul source of a persons income. Go work somewhere else part-time for a buck or two more an hour, without full medical benefits. Sure its tough work, but you would be hard-pressed to find a full-time job that offers full medical benefits with little or no cost to you.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Its in ups's best interest to raise the p-time starting wage. The turn over rate is ridiculous and if they ever plan on keeping a good p-time work force they need to. Now without the medical for a year that is a concession while they gain 6 months for family coverage earlier. I started for the medical not the pay. How many of our older (25 and up) p-timers are here for the medical? How many will apply for $8.50 next aug with no benefits? With no new 22.3 jobs how long will it take to get a friend-time job in the future? It is not as appealing to a career minded indivdual to start at ups during this contract, and remember todays p-timers are tomorrows friend-timers.
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
Well there are two points here. First of all what they are saying is that now they will not pay for benefits for a full 12 months now and 18 months for spouse and children, yet the reward is zero improvement to the starting wage and only an extra 50 cent bump to the 90 day raise! So in fact for 3 months at $8.50, and 9 months at $9.50, it is only an $8.50-$9.50 per hour job with no benefits, no holiday pay, no vacations, no sick days, no disability coverage, no life insurance and no increase to the chart rates of pay for air driving either by the way. So UPS is saving a TON OF MONEY for the first 12 to 18 months of every new part timer! So if the $14 per hour you qoute is true, please supply verification, then why are we not voting NO and raising the starting pay to $10 and a $2 raise at one year? They are saving $14 per hour for 12 months and a good portion of that for another 6 months so the increases I speak of should be more than offset.
The second thing is that we can not get, much less keep people working at UPS part time so how in the hell does delaying the benefits and adding a sparse 50 cents at 90 days going to help. In fact it will only make things worse!
We gave away their sick days for their first 3 YEARS with UPS in the last contract as well as lengthed the progression for full time top out by 6 months! Now we are lenghtening it another 6 months to 36 months!
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
You mention the $14 cost including sick days, well they do not get any for 3 years. You mention vacations but they get zero 1st year, 1 the 2nd, and 2 per year for the next 8 YEARS. You mention medical but as it is now they do not get benefits for 90 to 120 days, no vision coverage for 6 months, and no dental for 12 months as it is now. The social security match is paid regardless as it is by all employers.
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
Great ideas!!!!
Your benefits will be fine since you will be hired on before this contract takes effect. People hired after August 2008 will have to wait.
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You have obviously never worked part time or you wouldn't say that. Part time UPS is manual labor. It isn't some weekend job ripping tickets at a movie theater it's 4 hours Monday through Friday of hard work. The summer heat in a trailer that has been sitting in the yard is like an oven. Christmas is something so bad I've blocked it from my memory. Go bail hay or work as a roofer for 4 hours and then do entry level hub work for the same amount of time (I've done all of the above). Hub work is harder.
Full timers should make more than part timers. I don't think anyone (even the part timers) argue that point. However asking people to do back breaking work without benefits (we are talking about this contract not the way it used to be) for $1.25 more than the 16 year old kid ripping movie tickets is ridiculous.
688upsteamster
Member
Not only are the wages a bad thing. If you are planning to go full time. GOOD LUCK! They want a 60 day probation period. They will abuse members who are on the brink of full time. And to and insult to injury it will take you 3 years to make top pay. So you will make little over minimum wage starting out, no benifits for a year, work an average of 10 years or longer partime, then when you get a chance to drive they will play with you for a couple of more years, so now you've been wating to make a good wage and you've been with UPS for 10 to 12 years and it will be 15 years into your slavery here to make a decent wage. So your 401k will suffer because you were not able to contribute for the first 15 years. The Contract offer is the worst in UPS history!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Braveheart,
The cost example that I gave was not reflective of the new offered contract, those numbers are what it is under the current contract. Can't agree or disagree with what you say on the new offer because to date all I have seen is the proposed wage increases.
The one thing people keep forgetting is that 6.1 billion has to come back some way. It sounds if what you say is correct that the company is going to try and get it back with new people as opposed of hurting those that currently work for UPS.
The last thing I wanted to mention, in my part of the country, we are being forced to hire off the street into driving jobs. This long 5-10 year wait for full time openings maybe true in some parts of the country, but it's not everywhere.
The cost example that I gave was not reflective of the new offered contract, those numbers are what it is under the current contract. Can't agree or disagree with what you say on the new offer because to date all I have seen is the proposed wage increases.
The one thing people keep forgetting is that 6.1 billion has to come back some way. It sounds if what you say is correct that the company is going to try and get it back with new people as opposed of hurting those that currently work for UPS.
The last thing I wanted to mention, in my part of the country, we are being forced to hire off the street into driving jobs. This long 5-10 year wait for full time openings maybe true in some parts of the country, but it's not everywhere.
GuyinBrown
Blah
Not only are the wages a bad thing. If you are planning to go full time. GOOD LUCK! They want a 60 day probation period. They will abuse members who are on the brink of full time. And to and insult to injury it will take you 3 years to make top pay. So you will make little over minimum wage starting out, no benifits for a year, work an average of 10 years or longer partime, then when you get a chance to drive they will play with you for a couple of more years, so now you've been wating to make a good wage and you've been with UPS for 10 to 12 years and it will be 15 years into your slavery here to make a decent wage. So your 401k will suffer because you were not able to contribute for the first 15 years. The Contract offer is the worst in UPS history!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not saying this is the greatest contract in history, but WOW... At least make a marginal attempt to be moderately accurate.
1- They start at $16.10 which is significantly more than minimum wage.
2- 99% are going to be current UPS employees who already have benefits. I'm fairly certain that coverage continues and they aren't required to wait a year.
3- They "play" with everybody for the duration of your career. No need for the new hires to feel special.
4- 15 years before you can contribute to your 401k? That one is so far out there it's mind boggling.
The offer is pitiful. Of course the union got decent raises for FT since they get 2 1/2 times our hourly rate! The progression increase is unacceptable. It cost alot to bail out central states but to screw the rest of the empoyees while the union is the one really reaping the benifits really stinks. What will happen is we will refuse the offer, come to a strike authorization, loose massive volume, maybe strike and loose thousands of dollars per employee in lost wages for another offer that may recoup half of what we would have made while working. We loose either way. Thanks teamsters. I'm making $28.77 and hour. I would have accepted any contract offering a dime more while keeping benifits, progression and health/welfare the same while giving the part-timers a pay raise. Nope. Won't happen. Teamsters need us FT to make more so they make more. Not enough PT in the union and at a pitifull wage why the hell would they be? Who wins? Teamsters and UPS. Not us.
