Abortion

[moreluck]

I agree ! The female knows the concequences much better than any man can.
The man doesn't need to go thru body changes, time off work or school.
And that's just the pregnancy, nevermind once the child is born.

A potential single mom should also know it will be hard to find a good single man afterwards, too.

Oh and what's that I hear....."Oh babe, I don't have a condom, c'mon, just let me please....c'mon babe...." Condom up or don't go near a female. Irresponsible statement if you ask me.

 

[klein]

You didn't need to give away your life story here, Moreluck !

 

[cachsux]

CONDOM !!!! Men, take responsibility.

Abstinence, birth control pills, morning after pills. Three chances for the woman. What can the man do after he's done? Garden hose and a shop vac?

It's 50/50.

 

[cachsux]

Oh and what's that I hear....."Oh babe, I don't have a condom, c'mon, just let me please....c'mon babe...." Condom up or don't go near a female. Irresponsible statement if you ask me.

You do know along with the right to vote also came the right to swing by Walgreens and grab some condoms for your purse? Or birth control pills, morning after pills, the female condom, the shot (6 month and 1 year),etc.

YES!!!!! Men should be responsible..................as should the women.


P.s. where are these "c'mon baby" type women? Never came across one like that. Is it a California thing?

 

[menotyou]

Abstinence, birth control pills, morning after pills. Three chances for the woman. What can the man do after he's done? Garden hose and a shop vac?

It's 50/50.

​Snip-Snip!!

 

[PT Stewie]

Hey Klien. Here is a example fo a career women look her up Charmaine Yoest .

 

[moreluck]

Technically they aren't fathers or even mothers until the child is actually born. Unless you want to change that social law now , too, and let the government pay for child allowance from conception date.

Technically, you are mis-informed!

 

[trplnkl]

You be the one in charge of telling women who have been raped that they have to have that baby!! You be the one in charge of forcing a woman whose fetus is deformed and if allowed to be born will not allow her to have babies. All you small government people , lets create a new bureacracy : The Dept of Fetus Delivery Enforcement..we can call it the FDE. Great jobs program,!!

Rape or incest are two possible situations where I might vary from my anti-abortion stance. I still can't be in favor of those abortions but I can't blame them because the woman is usually an unwilling participant.

The operative word is choice (which is probably why he italicized it). While I certainly don't think abortion should be considered to simply be another form or choice of birth control, I do think the mother, if single, or the couple, whether married or not, should have the option of deciding for herself or themselves whether they want the pregnancy to go to term. I have a 27 year old daughter and I would like for her to have the option available to her. Island mentioned adoption, which would be a wonderful option both for the mother who does not want the child and for the couple who are unable for whatever reason to have a child of their own. What I would not want is for someone to tell my daughter that she does not have the option to abort her child, must carry the child to term and give birth to the child and then must provide for the care of that child until that child turns 18. As I said above, abortion should not simply be another form of birth control but should instead be an option available for those whom, for whatever reason, do not wish to have a child at this time.

There is also the whole "when does life begin" argument. I don't believe that life begins at conception but instead begins when the fetus is in the second or third trimester. I think it was Island who suggested taking an ultrasound picture of the fetus and showing it to the mother just prior to performing the abortion. I like this idea.

How do you come to the conclusion of when life begins?

Before you leave.....are you saying that the "single minded career woman" who exercises poor judgement and becomes pregnant should not be afforded the choice to terminate the pregnancy but instead should be forced to put her plans on hold while she carries and then gives birth to a baby she clearly does not want?

I want to be clear that, while I am pro-choice, I do not condone the use of abortion as simply another form of birth control.

Never said gov't drain. I said someone else's problem. I also said that the vast majority of anti-abortion proponents don't step up to the plate after the child is born.

Dave you are contradicting yourself in two posts, in one you contradict yourself in the same sentence. When you are saying a woman shouldn't be forced to carry an unwanted child to term IS a form of birth control for convenience. Doesn't matter how one looks at abortion, it is a form of birth control. The only thing that varies is the reason.

What I mean by "stepping up to the plate" is that those who are against abortion should also be at the adoption agency to adopt the now un-aborted children.
Heck, why even have an adoption agency? Have a list of anti-abortion proponents. The people who for whatever reason feel they can't care for a child and should not be given the choice to stop the pregnancy early on can now just hand the baby directly to the anti-abortion folks to raise as their own. No burden on the goverment or the taxpayer or anyone else. It would be strictly between the two.

Who do you think are adopting the unwanted new born babies? I would be willing to bet few of them come from the pro-abortion camp.
The adoption agencies are in place to TRY and insure that people adopting children are not monsters that do horrible things to children.

An unborn fetus is a political issue.

A newborn baby is a responsibility.

I think BOTH are a responsibility of the individuals that created them. I was concerned over the killing of unborn children long before I knew there we republicans and democrats.

But, it still doesn't stop the fact that maybe the newly pregnant woman doesn't want to go thru a whole full birth cycle (getting round and fat, dealing with morning sickness and other illnesses, seeing doctors on regular basis (maybe without insurance), and so on.

I can't see how anyone can force a "free" person to go thru 9 months of her life doing something and undergoing body changes she doesn't want in the first place !

That doesn't stop the fact that the female has already made the choice to have unprotected sex, full well knowing that she may get pregnant.

Moreluck, you are missing my point !
In China woman are basically forced to have an abortion if they have already 1 child.
In the USA, you're trying to force women not to have any abortions at all !

I say both countries are wrong !
Where is the freedom of choice ?

The freedom of choice was when the heavy breathing was going on.

That is a big problem with the social conservatives ... they want to tell others how to live their life but are nowhere to be seen to deal with the issues they create such as supporting the child they don't want to be aborted.

That is the problem with social liberals that want everyone to act anyway they want with no responsibility for their actions. I say if you make a mistake Human Up and that care of their responsibilities. As I asked Cach, who do you think are adopting the unwanted babies? Probably social conservatives.

Technically they aren't fathers or even mothers until the child is actually born. Unless you want to change that social law now , too, and let the government pay for child allowance from conception date.

Where do you get that twisted logic? What social law, is that a canadian thing? There shouldn't be a child allowance anyway.

What about the pure as snow mothers who slept with said dirtbags? Any accountability due from them? Just because mom is single and in a poverty area doesn't mean she can't crack the whip and make sure the child goes to school, helps around the house, stays away from the wrong crowd, is in at a decent hour. It's a 50/50 deal the last I heard.

Your are absolutely correct this should be a shared responsibility and it both parties should be involved with the birth and support equally. It's too easy to prove who the sperm donor is not to force...YES FORCE.. the man to support their child. Any male that refuses to do so has no right to call themselves a man. Again, adoption of a wonderful thing.

You didn't need to give away your life story here, Moreluck !

Klein, that was uncalled for and out of line. You owe Moreluck apology.

 

[moreluck]

I can't keep track of the different guys who've mentioned a woman either putting school or putting their careers or life on hold.......You do know that most pregnant women go about life as usual....including work, school or whatever? It's very rare where they have to be bedridden for months.....usually multiples.

Pregnancy is not a sickness or a disease. The MOM is nourishing that LIFE from the very moment of conception.....she becomes a mom then and the baby is a person then too. There is no magic line that's crossed over in 2 or 3 months that qualifies the baby as a person.

I think heartbeat is a living person (At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period], and by 21 days it is pumping, through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother. J.M. Tanner, G. R. Taylor, and the Editors of Time-Life Books, Growth, New York: Life Science Library)

When you see specials on invitro, they put an egg and sperm in a petri dish.....when fertilization takes place, the doctor says, you're pregnant! That means you are parents at that point to me.

 

[klein]

What happens to that petri-dish after they add the "day after pill" ?
Got to wonder why that's even legally available in the US !

 

[cachsux]

​Snip-Snip!!

Before hand, yes. Kind of tough during.

 

[over9five]

Snip-Snip!!

Before hand, yes. Kind of tough during.

Foreplay?

 

[trplnkl]

What happens to that petri-dish after they add the "day after pill" ?
Got to wonder why that's even legally available in the US !

stay focused klein, we're talking about abortions here, not personal hygiene.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What happens to that petri-dish after they add the "day after pill" ?
Got to wonder why that's even legally available in the US !

Klein, the woman takes the "day after pill" orally (of course, had she done that instead, she wouldn't be in this situation, but I digress) and the fertilized egg is flushed out when she urinates.

 

[cachsux]

When you see specials on invitro, they put an egg and sperm in a petri dish.....when fertilization takes place, the doctor says, you're pregnant! That means you are parents at that point to me.

Actually they put a bunch of them in a dish in in an attempt to get some to be fertilized. Then they take a number of those and inject them to try and get one to implant in the walls of the uterus. It is common practice once they have conformation of implantation and growth to "weed out" the lesser embryos.

"Embryos are failed by the embryologist based on the amount of cells, evenness of growth and degree of fragmentation. The number to be transferred depends on the number available, the age of the woman and other health and diagnostic factors. In countries such as Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, a maximum of two embryos are transferred except in unusual circumstances. In the UK and according to HFEA regulations, a woman over 40 may have up to three embryos transferred, whereas in the USA, younger women may have many embryos transferred based on individual fertility diagnosis. Most clinics and country regulatory bodies seek to minimise the risk of pregnancies carrying multiples. As it is not uncommon for more implantations to take than desired, the next step faced by the expectant mother is that of selective abortion. The embryos judged to be the "best" are transferred to the patient's uterus through a thin, plastic catheter, which goes through her vagina and cervix. Several embryos may be passed into the uterus to improve chances of implantation and pregnancy."

If every fertilized egg is a life then isn't it a bit hypocritical to choose which ones to keep?

 

[moreluck]

Klein, the woman takes the "day after pill" orally (of course, had she done that instead, she wouldn't be in this situation, but I digress) and the fertilized egg is flushed out when she urinates.

If there's a pregnancy in a petri dish, believe me, that woman was trying like crazy to get pregnant and wants more than anything to be in "that situation", not get rid of it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

If there's a pregnancy in a petri dish, believe me, that woman was trying like crazy to get pregnant and wants more than anything to be in "that situation", not get rid of it.

Klein was talking about the day after pill and said the procedure takes place in a petri dish, which it does not. Try to keep up.

 

[moreluck]

Klein was talking about the day after pill and said the procedure takes place in a petri dish, which it does not. Try to keep up.

: Abortion

Originally Posted by klein
What happens to that petri-dish after they add the "day after pill"

I brought up the petri dish with invitro procedures. Klein answered it with that ridiculous statement.....you keep up. Klein derailed it, not me.





​

 

[PT Stewie]

Don't Tell Baby's Sex to Prevent 'Sex Selection' AbDoctors should not tell pregnant women the sex of their baby until 30 weeks into a pregnancy, one physician is arguing, taking a stance that is sure to be controversial.
By not revealing a fetus' sex, doctors could prevent abortions related to the sex of the baby, according to Dr. Rajendra Kale, interim editor-in-chief of the Canadian Medical Association Journal. The practice of "sex selection," or the aborting of female fetuses because of a preference for sons, is an issue in several Asian countries, and may also be done by some immigrants in Canada and the United States, Kale said.
"A pregnant woman being told the sex of the fetus at ultrasonography at a time when an unquestioned abortion is possible is the starting point" of sex selection, Kale wrote in the editorial published online today ortions, Doctor Says

Currently, most pregnant women in the United States get an ultrasound between 18 and 22 weeks of pregnancy that looks for fetal anomalies, and learn the sex of their baby at that time.
Kale pointed to research in Canada and the United States indicating that immigrants in certain ethnic groups, including people from China, Korea and India, selectively abort female fetuses: couples who have two daughters are more likely to have a son as their third child than would be excepted if left to chance.
Ethical concerns
Two large organizations of doctors — the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada, and the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists — agree that sex selection is unethical.
Still, withholding information about the sex of a fetus from a woman is also not ethical, according to the ACOG. "Because a patient is entitled to obtain personal medical information, including information about the sex of her fetus, it will sometimes be impossible for health care professionals to avoid unwitting participation in sex selection," according to a 2007 ACOG committee report.
But Kale argued that although a woman has a right to information about herself as it relates to her health and medical care, the sex of the fetus is medically irrelevant information, and does not affect the care of the pregnant woman or her unborn child. The only exception should be in cases of rare, sex-linked illnesses, Kale said.
What could be done
While the problem of sex selection in Canada and the United States is likely small, it should not be ignored, according to Kale, a native of Mumbai, India.
The organizations that govern physicians in Canada should adopt policies that limit disclosure of fetal sex by health professionals to after 30 weeks, Kale said.
Pass it on: To prevent sex selection, doctors should not disclose the sex of the baby until after the mother is 30 weeks pregnant.

 

[klein]

Klein was talking about the day after pill and said the procedure takes place in a petri dish, which it does not. Try to keep up.

I did not say it took place in a petri-dish !
I basically said the day after pill basically kills life (as some of these righties here call it) - which in turn should be illegal in the US if it's considered life.