Active thread - Zimmerman Not Guilty
- Thread starter island1fox
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pretender
Well-Known Member
Cheap shot.
Lol. That's not my fault.
How so?
Not so. Listen to what the juror said and it's obvious that they considered"stand your ground". So maybe they did get it wrong if they applied the wrong law.
Upsmule
Well-Known Member
Can't argue with that.
oldngray
nowhere special
The jury was instructed about stand your ground in that Zimmerman was not required to retreat in a self defense case. In a stand your ground case there would be no jury trial with all the evidence being presented in front of a judge, and if the stand your ground is won then he would be immune from prosecution. Not a trial but a different legal matter.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
We get it. We just disagree with it and think it should be changed. But since you seem to know about it, wouldn't it make more since if the case had been reviewed by a judge in the first place? Whether "stand your ground" or "self defense", seems judicial review could have avoided some of this.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Since it did not apply, it was not reviewed before hand.
Stand your ground was never a consideration in this case.
I never understood, logically, why this case was ever tried with the charges put forth.
I understand why the verdict was returned as it is the correct verdict according to the law for the charges against Zimmer.
I also understand why people think Zimmer got off when he was "guilty" of starting this and made poor choices.
The problem is "starting this and making poor choices" is not illegal.
When my wife told me about the verdict, my response was that the "Not guilty" was inevitable but Zimmer getting off "scott free" was wrong and I would not feel safe with him patrolling my neighborhood.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
What would have made more sense is for the prosecution to have had the ability to charge Zimmerman with a lesser crime (assault? negligent homicide? reckless endangerment?) that they would have had a legitimate
chance of successfully proving in court.
They didnt have that ability because the media outcry and the political pressure from the race-baiters such as Sharpton etc. pretty much forced them to charge him with a crime...murder...that they had no chance of proving beyond a reasonable doubt.
The jury wanted to convict him of something...but as a matter of law the state failed to prove its case on the murder charge, leaving the jury no choice but to acquit him of that charge.
Had Zimmerman and Martin both been the same color, or had the murder weapon been something other than a gun, the case would have received no media attention at all and whatever ever charges the state might have chosen to file would probably have been routinely plea-bargained and settled without a trial.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Boycotting the entire state of Florida because 6 women on a jury followed the law and rendered a verdict in a criminal case that had nothing to do with the Stand Your Ground law is an empty, meaningless, intellectually vacant gesture that allows all of these celebrities to pat themselves on the back and pretend that they are actually "doing something" about a complicated societal problem. Its a great way for them to get a warm and fuzzy feeling and to score points with their fan base, but it wont actually accomplish a damn thing. Kinda reminds me of all the new gun laws they try to pass every time there is a mass murder.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Thanks, but its not you I'm worried about, its the Schumers and Bloombergs and Feinsteins and Sharptons that I am worried about. Their vision of what the 2nd Amendment really means is markedly different from mine, and I dont necessarily place much faith in the Supreme Court to do the right thing either. Heller vs DC only went my way by a 5-4 vote; would you feel secure about your rights if the Supremes had just overturned Plessy vs Ferguson or Dred Scott vs Sanford by that same margin and there was a hardcore group of well-funded politicians who were dedicated and committed to taking those rights away?
island1fox
Well-Known Member
I will address it right now, and I'm going to piss some people off. State-sanctioned oppression, discrimination, segregation and legalized oppression of black people as an entire race only ended in the mid-1960's. I was born in 1967, so we are only talking about a generation or two ago. The idea that some well meaning white people can pass a law and say "ok black people, no more riding on the back of the bus, you are legally equal to us now so get yourtogether and get jobs and become doctors and lawyers and politicians and start behaving the way we expect you to immediately" is kind of stupid and naive. Systematic, legal opression and dehumanization of an entire race will negatively affect that race for generations. Now add to that the so-called "war on drugs" that disproportionately targets and sentences and incarcerates young black men. It isnt the black men who are importing the drugs, it isnt the black men who are getting rich off the drugs, and it sure as hell isnt the black men who wrote the laws about drugs or enforced the laws about drugs or sat on the juries for the trials of the other black men who broke the laws on the drugs. If we are going to hold the black community as a whole accountable for its problems, then we in the white community need to at least be honest about the role we have played in creating and perpetuating those problems. ---flame suit ON-------
Flame away,
Over fifty percent of Murders ---committed by Blacks--- not a reason for fear ?
Sober --you still live in the sixties--big bad mafia--GONE. Many Blacks making big money on Drugs-Columbians play a major role- but gangs like the crips ,Bloods,Latin Kings etc etc have control money and power.
Inner city problems of Poverty,drug abuse,children out of wedlock --failing in school - no discipline -gangs -murder --while we pay for everything -and you claim--no personal Responsability--it's just whiteys fault After all the affirmative action and money spent developing a dependent under class-- it is whiteys fault - getting old.
Just like the Italians,Irish and all other groups did-- pick yourself up --value your own life as well as others----- Impossible ??? Hello we do have a Black President.
PERSONAL CHOICES and Personal RESPONSABILITY
Babagounj
Strength through joy
you forgot that the Mexican Cartels are now the big bad crooks .
Given the way and the how they operate , I personally would welcome the old mafia back . They had an less hostile system ; someone dishonored them they were dealt with , the cartels act differently , they wipe out entire families .
Given the way and the how they operate , I personally would welcome the old mafia back . They had an less hostile system ; someone dishonored them they were dealt with , the cartels act differently , they wipe out entire families .
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Comparing blacks to Italians, Irish and other ethnic groups when it comes to immigration history and success at "picking yourself up" conveniently overlooks some key facts.
1. The Italians and Irish came here by choice. Blacks didnt.
2. Italians and Irish were legally classified as human beings with constitutional rights when they arrived here. Blacks werent.
3. Italians and Irish arrived here as family groups and tended to stick together and help one another. Black families were seperated and sold off, with fathers going to one owner and mothers and children to another.
When you apply a world wide perspective to this issue, the lesson throughout history that becomes clear is that when one race or culture subjugates and conquers another, it can take generations for the damage to be undone. Look at how poorly the Native Americans have "assimilated" to the white-imposed way of life that was forced upon them on the reservations. Look at how poorly the aboriginal peoples have done in other nations (Australia, or the various European colonies in Africa for example) that have been conquered by force and then ultimately "freed" by the conqueror.
I'm aware that progress has been made, I'm aware that we now have a black President, and I'm aware of the power of free will and personal responsibility. All I am saying is that when you subjugate and dehumanize an entire race for generations, that race isnt suddenly going to just "pick themselves up" and act the way you think they ought to according to your timeable.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The black gangs are but pawns in the big game.
Its not the blacks who are importing the drugs into this country, its not the blacks who are laundering the billions of dollars of profits from drug money, its not the blacks who are spending billions of dollars in our tax revenue to fight the so-called "war', and its not the blacks who are writing and enforcing the laws that perpetuate the entire corrupt system.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Sober,
Just love your "liberal world view"
Lets just look at the "Irish" You do know that Slavery came to the new world in the year 1619----By the ENGLISH and SPANISH Empires ---who got their Slaves from African's selling other Africans.
Take a look when you get a chance --what the English empire was doing to the Irish ---Murder, starvation ,confiscation of property political imprisonment --the whole nine yards ----some believe worse than slavery --which no one argues was terrible.
On the great one hundred and fifty year anniversary of Gettysburg---where in three days over 53,000 White men died--many of them Irish --just off the boat ---fought to end Slavery------
They then had to Navigate through the "New England" and the "New YORK" --where for years were looked at as non -human scum "Irish need not apply"
Many turned to alcohol addiction --which in part led to great Politicians putting in Prohibition --that worked well --similar to the libs pushing "gun prohibition"
today. The Irish had to fight and straighten out some of their own personal responsibility problems -in their communities --similar to what the Blacks have to do today. The Irish did not have the Welfare state or the Affirmative action programs .
Irish families today --that were enslaved by the English--fought in America to end Slavery --Have their children denied access to Colleges, Jobs or Promotions --due to affirmative action programs.
Every class of people have had their problems --time for many of them to look in the mirror.
The death threat to every Black person in America --is not the Whitey racist hunting him down --it is the Black next to him.
I guess you are an expert on the "system" or the "white" drug importers ----Should look up the History of Nicky Barnes and the thousand of other drug Kingpins that are minorities ---suppliers--laundering --the whole deal --get out of past -and look at the present --and the impact on the next generation. Gang members selling CRACK -hooking for life their fellow human beings --should go to jail for a very long time .
P.S. Not just a Black President --The top LAW OFFICER of the U.S. is also Black .
PPS--If you think are prisons are over 50% full of Black men -whose only crime was smoking pot ----you must really believe that the Liberal establishment is really not trying to pry that gun out of your warm hands today.
In your State --Oregon --on your next day off --sit all day in the Portland courtroom --I believe it will be an eye opener.
I have lived in three different countries and many different States. In one of the "lily white" States with minorities only 2% of the total --while my wife served Jury Duty --I spent a week listening and observing our legal system in action . A state 98% White -----Assault, Rape, Murder, armed Robbery, domestic abuse, drug selling etc etc etc ------many violent crimes --99% minority.
Sounds like the "Great Society" of LBJ and the billions spent and we continue to spend has created a new"Plantation" Where people are dependant --get the basics of housing and food --like any slave or prisoner ---and than --well you know "the rest of the story"
Time for real solutions --many the Black community must do for THEMSELVES !!!
Just love your "liberal world view"
Lets just look at the "Irish" You do know that Slavery came to the new world in the year 1619----By the ENGLISH and SPANISH Empires ---who got their Slaves from African's selling other Africans.
Take a look when you get a chance --what the English empire was doing to the Irish ---Murder, starvation ,confiscation of property political imprisonment --the whole nine yards ----some believe worse than slavery --which no one argues was terrible.
On the great one hundred and fifty year anniversary of Gettysburg---where in three days over 53,000 White men died--many of them Irish --just off the boat ---fought to end Slavery------
They then had to Navigate through the "New England" and the "New YORK" --where for years were looked at as non -human scum "Irish need not apply"
Many turned to alcohol addiction --which in part led to great Politicians putting in Prohibition --that worked well --similar to the libs pushing "gun prohibition"
today. The Irish had to fight and straighten out some of their own personal responsibility problems -in their communities --similar to what the Blacks have to do today. The Irish did not have the Welfare state or the Affirmative action programs .
Irish families today --that were enslaved by the English--fought in America to end Slavery --Have their children denied access to Colleges, Jobs or Promotions --due to affirmative action programs.
Every class of people have had their problems --time for many of them to look in the mirror.
The death threat to every Black person in America --is not the Whitey racist hunting him down --it is the Black next to him.
I guess you are an expert on the "system" or the "white" drug importers ----Should look up the History of Nicky Barnes and the thousand of other drug Kingpins that are minorities ---suppliers--laundering --the whole deal --get out of past -and look at the present --and the impact on the next generation. Gang members selling CRACK -hooking for life their fellow human beings --should go to jail for a very long time .
P.S. Not just a Black President --The top LAW OFFICER of the U.S. is also Black .
PPS--If you think are prisons are over 50% full of Black men -whose only crime was smoking pot ----you must really believe that the Liberal establishment is really not trying to pry that gun out of your warm hands today.
In your State --Oregon --on your next day off --sit all day in the Portland courtroom --I believe it will be an eye opener.
I have lived in three different countries and many different States. In one of the "lily white" States with minorities only 2% of the total --while my wife served Jury Duty --I spent a week listening and observing our legal system in action . A state 98% White -----Assault, Rape, Murder, armed Robbery, domestic abuse, drug selling etc etc etc ------many violent crimes --99% minority.
Sounds like the "Great Society" of LBJ and the billions spent and we continue to spend has created a new"Plantation" Where people are dependant --get the basics of housing and food --like any slave or prisoner ---and than --well you know "the rest of the story"
Time for real solutions --many the Black community must do for THEMSELVES !!!
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island1fox
Well-Known Member
By the way the solutions I refer to do not include Beyoncé and Jay Z. As they make their millions and are embraced by President Obama --the "N" WORD--bitCHES and ho's they sing about are not great role models.
Too much glorifying the "gansta paradise" --the hoodies and the gold teeth---by the way for a young 17 year old child ---a lot of gold teeth in his mouth ---where did that money come from ???
Too much glorifying the "gansta paradise" --the hoodies and the gold teeth---by the way for a young 17 year old child ---a lot of gold teeth in his mouth ---where did that money come from ???
