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[retired]

The problem with the Teamster's contracts is that they often trample on the rights of a few of their members to get their broader goals into place. It looks like your rights were the union's acceptable collateral damage on this one.

 

[jbul_ups]

The problem with Teamster contracts is, UPS can't seem to have a vision of treating it's people fairly. Even after making agreements, they look for ways to weasel out of the contract. But have no fear, the Article 40 and Article 22 language will be addressed this contract. Of course, the day after the contract is inked, they will be looking for new ways to get around the spirit of the agreement.

 

[retired]

It sounds to me that your beef is with CIGNA, not UPS. They are the ones that denied your disability claim. I understand that you are taking this personally but UPS doesn't make the decisions in this kind of situation. They have contracted with CIGNA and outside doctors to take the decision making outside of the UPS organization into an objective decision making panel.

 

[jbul_ups]

retired,
I wasn't waiting for the PAPER record, I was checking the First Union web page and the phone account system. Seems that UPS was the hold up. For what reason? say $600 times 40,000 employees(could it be that high?). $24 million collects a hefty amount of interest over 14 days.The old,"the check is in the mail" float?

 

[legs]

How is it that the distribution and recording process is taking money out of your pocket? You can't sell the shares because of the restriction you agreed to that enabled you to buy them at a discount and you don't earn interest on them so where are you losing money on the transaction?

I'm surprised that you even bought UPS shares because from what I've seen here you are a total UPS basher.

 

[tieguy]

I'm sure that's true JBul, and I'm sure the teamsters will be looking to manipulate everything they can. I'm sure your failure to mention that aspect of teamster relations was just an oversight on your part.

 

[eyeofdrtj_eckle]

Where did you nice people learn how to write? I can't find any meaning in your sentences.

 

[tieguy]

What? What did you say?

 

[jbul_ups]

Look, UPS agreed in '97' to create 10,000 fulltime jobs, then immediately reneged on that contract issue. The Teamsters took them to task, won, but the ink was barely dried on that decision, and UPS throws in another monkey wrench. OK, we have to create the jobs, but we are only going to pay part time wages for them. Have no fear, this issue will be corrected, justly, in the next round of negotiations/strike if we must. Why is it that UPS just can't live up to the agreements they make? Why is it they constantly try to divide us with these tactics? Do they not understand, that they only strengthen our resolve? do they think we have lost our backbone?

 

[my2cents]

What is an "agreement" in a compulsory system? Collective bargaining in its present form is akin to bargaining with a gun under the table.

 

[retired]

The full time jobs were contingent upon volume levels, which the teamsters knew would be reduced for some time as a result of the strike. The jobs were not to be created unless the volume levels increased to trigger their necessity.

There is a balance that has to be kept between making good business decisions and making good labor decisions. The union often exploits the perception of an adversarial relationship between management and labor which influences the attitudes of their workers. Many of the workers really don't understand the contract and react angrily to situations that the union agreed to. If there was no tension they would lose the passion expressed by the vocal minority (jbul) and the apathy of the majority would undermine their power.

 

[jbul_ups]

My2Cents,
You don't like unions, that is your right. If a member doesn't want to be a member, he has that right. Haven't seen too many leave.

 

[jbul_ups]

retired,
You are soo right..it was contingent on vloume..and the arbitrator found UPS was fudging the figures to keep from having to come across with their PROMISE. Now the jobs ARE created, but at less than fulltime wages...which will also be before an arbitrator...and will be addressed in the upcoming negotiations...

 

[my2cents]

Jbul,

Many don't leave unions because they are afraid to. I'll admit, I don't like unions in their present form. To me, unions are all about power politics and who gets to manage the pension and welfare funds.

Additionally, what other private organizations have sovereign power? The National Labor Relations Act is one of the most unconstitutional laws ever passed. Free association and freedom of contract has been flipped on it's head.

 

[upsdude]

jbul. Perhaps the "Closed Shop" laws in your state prevent many from leaving the Teamsters. Fortunately I live in a right to work state, myself and many others have exercised our rights and discontinued monthly donations to the Democratic National Committee (Teamsters Union). All the dollars Carey and others funneled to the DNC would have went a long way to help Teamster members in need. If you guys are so sure of your strength, why do you oppose a National Right to Work Law?? Say what you will, membership dropped dramatically in my area after the '97 strike. Many of the members that walked the picket line with a sign in each hand and one on their chest have since left the Teamsters in disgust.

 

[my2cents]

Just to clarify, the so-called "closed shop" was abolished in 1947 with the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act. To those who live in non right to work states, one can assert their Beck rights and pay a reduced fee, which is supposed to reflect the costs of collective bargaining. Few assert these rights because the average union member doesn't know they exist. Furthermore, the average member won't assert their Beck rights mainly out of fear and potential hassles. Asserting one's Beck rights isn't for the faint of heart.

 

[upsadvisor]

Just an FYI for any one who has an existing
loan.

Current LIBOR rate as of 10/23/2001

3 month 2.35 %

6 month 2.32 %

1 year 2.52 %

Rates will probably trend lower and as you can see
the 6 month rate is the lowest.
( the yield curve is slightly inverted )

 

[upsdude]

Correct again "my2cents". Another payoff to the Teamsters by Bill Clinton was his signing of an Executive Order removing postings of "Beck Rights" from Federal job sites. Unions love to wave the flag and talk about "Rights", so long as the Union approves of the "Rights".

 

[corb]

Well I guess we will have to see how its decided.

Just like to say hi to the UPS management people who are paid to monitor this site. If one day you have a problem UPS may stomp on you too. Remember that. UPS can turn on a management person in a minute. UPS has almost 400 cases in federal court right now. Not all of these cases are just people looking to score a quick buck. I know from my personal experience of all that I saw there that many laws are broken and people are used and pushed beyond their limits. It is a real shame.

 

[lluelin]

Can anyone give me (driver) the goods on the Preferred Customer Program? I got some OK stuff from posters on the teamster.net, but other experienced drivers don't know or care to know about it. I've had 2 customers push the "Preferred Customer" thing on me recently. Are we, as drivers, supposed to be doing anything special for these people, or is that all taken care of on the phones?