Arizona's anti-imigration law...

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
Remember is not only about brown skin people.

Are these the hard working illegals that will do only jobs that Americans won't do ?
day-laborers-apr-24.jpg
 

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
Who, by the way do not clear out HUGE woodland settlement camps of disruptive immigrant men who look for work by the side of the road, and at Home Depot parking lots in San Diego.
What????
I believe Calypso is talking about the "Minutemen." Or maybe if it's in Arizona the "Posse Staff" might be included, what do you think?
 
Well, Cowboy, what is clear is that there are authorities on the place. That’s clear.
As far as I know, no one denied that authorities were present. My statement was that one could not tell who was who, because you can't. In other words the video is basically worthless and proves nothing.
Of course I know lawmakers are not perfect, and as a consequence laws are not perfect. Read my statement again “flawless written” not “flawless laws need to be written.” And don’t say it’s the same for what you’re trying to say, because it’s not.
Nice try on the edit there, what you said was "Hey Cowboy, this is why I say we need flawless written laws," which is the very same thing as, flawless laws need to be written.
This brings me back to my point that people are flawed and a lot of what they do are flawed.
I still don't see the flaws that you are so afraid of.
People under their authority have to demand for perfect writing, thus laws become more accurate written objects to enforce rules. We need to request flawless written laws because, as you said, people that enforce them are not perfect and I believe that with more accurate laws they will do better.
We can demand anything we want, does not mean it will or even can happen. Sure, it would be wonderful if all law writers were perfect, the first time, every time. And it would be nice if I had a head full of hair, but neither is likely to happen, regardless.
Because, just to give you an example, SB1070 (which is a very controversial law) goes to the extreme of mistakes. You've made a lot of claims sure as this, but I still don't know exactly what the mistakes are. Would you care to post a C&P if the parts you believe to be mistakes and explain why you believe that?
And with a controversial law you have to pay way more attention on the writing.
Please tell me why you believe most opponents of this law are truly opposed?


I don’t get it, you say this kind of treatment is not justified; but you say that this guy is partially responsible for his own death because he probably resisted arrest? You say there is no justification to beat someone to death, but you still give justifications of why he might have got beaten to death? That the guys on the back are only shadows, and you still say that there are agents involved? We better leave this to the investigators.
Are you trying to read between the lines again? I've already warned you that doing so can cause you brain damage. I said beating someone to death is NOT justified. Offering a explanation why something happened is not showing justification. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you get pissed, does that justify why you flipped them off or does it merely explain why you did so?
The reason I said he was partially responsible is because, if he had not taken down the agents (as stated in the coroner's report) they would have had no reason to apply more force. If he had not been in the US illegally, they would not have even talked to him. How can you not see Anastasio Hernandez Rojas, was partially responsible for his own death. This is pure simple logic.


And about the rest that he was a criminal breaking several laws and so on… I don’t think it has something to do with the beating to death of a person, because that’s why we have judges, lawyers, courts and laws. And all those violations you mentioned do not deserve the death penalty. And all these justifications you gave don’t corroborate Anastasio Hernandez (RIP), in any way, liable for his own death.
Again, I never said anyone deserved to be beaten to death, in fact I said the exact opposite.
Did you read the coroner's report?
Cause of Death: Anoxic encephalopathy (brain damage due to lack of oxygen)due to: Resuscitated cardiac arrest (cessation of normal circulation)d/t acute myocardial infarct (heart attack)due to: Hypertensive cardiomyopathy, acute methamphetamine intoxication, and physical altercation with law enforcement officers
In short,(IMO) because he started fighting with the agents (as they were turning him loose)and was tazed , he had a heart attack and died. Also, the coroner's report didn't say any thing about signs of a beating.
 
I believe Calypso is talking about the "Minutemen." Or maybe if it's in Arizona the "Posse Staff" might be included, what do you think?
Wrong one more time. Calypso was talking about LEOs that did not do anything to clear out the ILLEGAL camps in the San Diego woodlands, or the disruptive immigrant men that stand along the side of the road looking for work, and the one's looking for work in the Home Depot parking lots.

Remember....read ONLY the typed lines of words.
 

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
As far as I know, no one denied that authorities were present. My statement was that one could not tell who was who, because you can't. In other words the video is basically worthless and proves nothing.
LOL. Texan, having authorities in a place gives a good start for whatever on the investigation, and the video might not prove anything, but it’s very useful, and it also brings witnesses to the investigation. But, as I’ve told you: It’s still under investigation. You seem to be heck of a good detective.
Nice try on the edit there, what you said was "Hey Cowboy, this is why I say we need flawless written laws," which is the very same thing as, flawless laws need to be written. LOL. I love YOUR editing, Cowboy. Really, you need to read and think that sentence over and over and over again. “Flawless WRITTEN laws.” It’s not the same as “Writing Flawless Laws.” I told you already not to say it’s the same.
This brings me back to my point that people are flawed and a lot of what they do are flawed.Good point. That’s why we need flawless written laws; that are precise on their purpose. Good point Cowboy. I still don't see the flaws that you are so afraid of. LOL, haven’t you seen them? I thought you have read the law, already.
We can demand anything we want, does not mean it will or even can happen. Sure, it would be wonderful if all law writers were perfect, the first time, every time. And it would be nice if I had a head full of hair, but neither is likely to happen, regardless.
Cowboy, as my friend Vince Lombardi once said: “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.” I know you won’t be able to catch the point.
You've made a lot of claims sure as this, but I still don't know exactly what the mistakes are. Would you care to post a C&P if the parts you believe to be mistakes and explain why you believe that?
Man, just google SB1070 or go to the azleg website. And start reading. You’d be able to see how absurd it is what it has been written. I think a high school student would do a better writing than that. Well, I’m not sure if you can see the absurdity, but just give it a try and start reading the law. There are mistakes of every kind.

Please tell me why you believe most opponents of this law are truly opposed?
Please don’t tell me it’s not a controversial bill. PLEASE. And please don’t tell me something political.
Are you trying to read between the lines again? I've already warned you that doing so can cause you brain damage.
Really, Cowboy, and hair loss, too? Thanks for the advice.
I said beating someone to death is NOT justified. Offering a explanation why something happened is not showing justification. If someone cuts you off in traffic and you get pissedWHAT?, does that justify why you flipped them off or does it merely explain why you did so?

The reason I said he was partially responsible is because, if he had not taken down the agents (as stated in the coroner's report) they would have had no reason to apply more force. If he had not been in the US illegally, they would not have even talked to him. How can you not see Anastasio Hernandez Rojas, was partially responsible for his own death. This is pure simple logic.
LOL. You’re spinning in the same wheel like a little hamster. I still don’t see your claims as a justification or if those arguments make Anastasio Hernandez(RIP) liable for his own death. May be if you got evidence of some kind or something you could talk about him being responsible. But those arguments you give don’t’ have any foundations to what you’re claiming for his liability of his death. We better sit back, and let the proffesionals do their jobs. They’ll determine the details.
Again, I never said anyone deserved to be beaten to death, in fact I said the exact opposite.
Did you read the coroner's report?
Cause of Death: Anoxic encephalopathy (brain damage due to lack of oxygen)due to: Resuscitated cardiac arrest (cessation of normal circulation)d/t acute myocardial infarct (heart attack)due to: Hypertensive cardiomyopathy, acute methamphetamine intoxication, and physical altercation with law enforcement officers
In short,(IMO) because he started fighting with the agents (as they were turning him loose)and was tazed , he had a heart attack and died.Also, the coroner's report didn't say any thing about signs of a beating.That’s why it is still under INVESTIGATION. Besides you’ve been talking about aggressive behavior and force, and electrice shocks and everything, and that that could have caused the death. Of course they won’t put Beaten to Death on the report, come on, Cowboy. You’re changing your mind, and you’ve be changing your statements, and you will change them in the future if you keep talking about this incident because it still is under INVESTIGATION.

At my first post about this I was being sarcastic saying: “Please don’t say he was being revived with electric shocks.” I never thought he was being revived with tasers… Is it still ruled a homicide, Cowboy? I haven’t make any comments about the death, since it’s still under investigation. Go ahead, Cowboy, you’re a good detective.
 

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
Again the Walking Dictionary is here. For what am I gonna’ look for the meaning of homicide? For asking you if the death is still ruled a homicide? LOL. Can they change that, Cowboy? Again, the INVESTIGATION will determine if this was brutal force, or many other reasons. That’s why I don’t say he died because of intoxication, or that he deserves to be death because he was a criminal, and thus he was responsible for his death; or that he was a martyr, or a saint… The investigation is in process, I don’t think your hypothesis counts, either.


Look up the meaning of homicide.
 

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
UH DUH, Texan. And if the agents don’t do that job, who do you think does it? Give it a try. By the way, Cowboy, with all that wisdom you got, do you know something about the “Posse Staff in AZ?”

Wrong one more time. Calypso was talking about LEOs that did not do anything to clear out the ILLEGAL camps in the San Diego woodlands, or the disruptive immigrant men that stand along the side of the road looking for work, and the one's looking for work in the Home Depot parking lots.

Remember....read ONLY the typed lines of words.
 
[FONT=&quot]LOL. Texan, having authorities in a place gives a good start for whatever on the investigation, and the video might not prove anything, but it’s very useful, and it also brings witnesses to the investigation. But, as I’ve told you: It’s still under investigation. You seem to be heck of a good detective.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You should explain just how this video is useful. [/FONT]
LOL. I love YOUR editing, Cowboy. Really, you need to read and think that sentence over and over and over again. “Flawless WRITTEN laws.” It’s not the same as “Writing Flawless Laws.” I told you already not to say it’s the same.
[FONT=&quot]I’m sorry that you don’t want to face the reality that the two sentences are saying the same thing. Please enlighten me, how in your dream world do you obtain “Flawless written laws”?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]LOL, haven’t you seen them? I thought you have read the law, already.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Man, just google SB1070 or go to the azleg website. And start reading. You’d be able to see how absurd it is what it has been written. I think a high school student would do a better writing than that. Well, I’m not sure if you can see the absurdity, but just give it a try and start reading the law. There are mistakes of every kind.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I’ve read the law several times. I knew you couldn’t show me all the glaring mistakes. It’s your claim that the mistakes are there, show em to me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please don’t tell me it’s not a controversial bill. PLEASE. And please don’t tell me something political.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My question was clear, why are most opponents against the law? Please don’t say because it’s a flawed law, most probably have no idea what it says. I never said it wasn’t controversial. That alone does make it a bad law.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]LOL. You’re spinning in the same wheel like a little hamster. I still don’t see your claims as a justification or if those arguments make Anastasio Hernandez(RIP) liable for his own death. May be if you got evidence of some kind or something you could talk about him being responsible. But those arguments you give don’t’ have any foundations to what you’re claiming for his liability of his death. We better sit back, and let the proffesionals do their jobs. They’ll determine the details.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No spinning, just straight forward, linear logic. I’m sorry it evades you so consistently.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That’s why it is still under INVESTIGATION. Besides you’ve been talking about aggressive behavior and force, and electrice shocks and everything, and that that could have caused the death. Of course they won’t put Beaten to Death on the report, come on, Cowboy. You’re changing your mind, and you’ve be changing your statements, and you will change them in the future if you keep talking about this incident because it still is under INVESTIGATION.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yea, that is what I have been talking about, that’s what the coroner’s report says as well as the claims by Hernandez’s family and friends and the video you posted.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The following quote is taken from the description of the video that you posted, which implies that he was beaten to death.[/FONT]
“This is the compilation of videos recording by a witness to the beating, tasing and subsequent death of Anastasio Hernandez Rojas.”
[FONT=&quot]You’re right, the coroner probably would not use the exact phrase “beaten to death”, however they probably would include wording that describes that conclusion. Why would the Coroner not mention anything they believed to be contributing factors? Of course the coroner’s report is only superficial compared to a full autopsy.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] I have not changed my mind, I have changed statements to try and find words you would understand.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
Again the Walking Dictionary is here. For what am I gonna’ look for the meaning of homicide? For asking you if the death is still ruled a homicide? LOL. Can they change that, Cowboy? Again, the INVESTIGATION will determine if this was brutal force, or many other reasons. That’s why I don’t say he died because of intoxication, or that he deserves to be death because he was a criminal, and thus he was responsible for his death; or that he was a martyr, or a saint… The investigation is in process, I don’t think your hypothesis counts, either.
Yes, that is why I suggested you to look up the word homicide. You have demonstrated, in the past, a tendency to use strange definitions to other words. The death being ruled a homicide in no way shows wrong doing on the part of the agents involved, just that they were involved.
I didn't say why he died, the coroner's report does though. Once again, you are assuming something I never said. I have stated more than once that I didn't believe that Hernandez DESERVED to die, for any reason. His being a long time criminal just points out to why he was in the position to be in conflict with federal agents. It's pretty obvious that if someone does not commit crimes, their contact with LEOs, as a suspect, will be minimal.
It's called personal responsibility.
As far as my hypothesis goes, hell no it doesn't count. I doubt anything you or I say on this message board counts. It's called a discussion not a trial.
 
Go back and look at that original post, but this time put on your glasses.
Not being able to figure out how your mind works, I can only guess that you are referring to the fact that all the people in the pic are(or seem to be) brown skinned. The picture was of a group of illegal immigrants gathered by the side of the road (according to the photographer). So what was your point?
 
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UH DUH, Texan. And if the agents don’t do that job, who do you think does it? Give it a try. By the way, Cowboy, with all that wisdom you got, do you know something about the “Posse Staff in AZ?”
That is the point, the fed agents are not doing their job so it does not get done. The "Posse Staff in Az" is irrelevant to Calypso's post.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
(CNN) — A proposed Arizona law would deny birth certificates to children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents. The bill comes on the heels of Arizona passing the nation’s toughest immigration law.
John Kavanagh, a Republican state representative from Arizona who supports the proposed law aimed at so-called “anchor babies,” said that the concept does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution.
“If you go back to the original intent of the drafters … it was never intended to bestow citizenship upon (illegal) aliens,” said Kavanagh, who also supported Senate Bill 1070 — the law that gave Arizona authorities expanded immigration enforcement powers.
Under federal law, children born in the United States are automatically granted citizenship, regardless of their parents’ residency status.
Kyrsten Sinema, a Democratic state representative, strongly opposes the bill.
“Unlike (Senate Bill) 1070, it is clear this bill runs immediately afoul of the U.S. Constitution,” she said.
“While I understand that folks in Arizona and across the country support S.B. 1070, they do so because we have seen no action from the federal government,” said Sinema. “Unfortunately, the so-called ‘anchor baby’ bill does nothing to solve the real problems we are facing in Arizona.”
Arizona Republicans are expected to introduce the legislation this fall.

Gov. Brewer was asked the question about splitting up families and she replied that the children (US citizens) can go back with their parents... no one is trying to split up families. GOOD for you Governor!!!

There are a lot of families leaving Arizona for greener pastures. We should see a drop off in school registration this fall. We have a spot on the 89A here in Sedona where the day workers gather. There used to be 50 to 75 waiting for work. I saw 3 the other day when I went to the doctor.

Here is the key... Close the border first - and eliminate anchor babies ... most citizens saw what amnesty did the first time around. Once the border is closed for good then let's open a good solid discussion on a path to citizenship. I think most citizens will get behind that if they know illegals can't just skip across the border without paying a high price. We need to take the incentives away and shut down the super highways.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Funny thing is, if you do build that large, long wall, it will probably benefit Mexico in less then 50years. About the time it takes to complete it !

Face is, with SS and pensions in the US going broke, in 50 years time, with little monthly dollars to receive per month, 1 of the few places will be Mexico and other South American countries to get by on it.
Thousands of Americans already practise retirement there.
Millions more to follow.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
We are presently building a pedestrian bridge staring at Mexacali and ending at Calgary........they'll all be your problem soon. Go ahead and try all your solutions.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Colorado State Patrol Nabs 11 ILLEGALS on I-70


Van With Suspected Illegals Stopped in Colo.

BP Finds 48 ILLEGALS in Closed Trailer



48 illegal immigrants in closed trailer at Laredo

38 ILLEGALS found inside home



Nearly 40 illegal immigrants found inside home

States with the Highest Number of Low Paying Jobs also Have Highest Population of ILLEGALS
14% of work to be suited for dropouts; educators urge action



No Mexican Outrage as ILLEGALS Murder Americans

Rancher may have died aiding immigrant

ILLEGALS are Career Criminals



Illegal Immigrants are Career Criminals
 
Funny thing is, if you do build that large, long wall, it will probably benefit Mexico in less then 50years. About the time it takes to complete it !

Face is, with SS and pensions in the US going broke, in 50 years time, with little monthly dollars to receive per month, 1 of the few places will be Mexico and other South American countries to get by on it.
Thousands of Americans already practise retirement there.
Millions more to follow.
50 years is a long time to work on other posible solutions. The first thing we need to do is plug up the damn hole.....both of em.
 
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