Arizona's anti-imigration law...

What is new is that the term “Reasonable Suspicion” is used to determine the illegal status of a person.
It’s only new in the use for illegal status because until now there were no state laws regarding this situation.


Wow, I never thought you could agree with me that a law that targets people doesn’t articulate the term “Reasonable Suspicion.” Then, you should now agree that it is a vague and ambiguous law. Cowboy, the training of an officer doesn’t matter much in a court if the law doesn’t articulate its meanings. Police officers have been trained for Reasonable Suspicion way before this law was written. I know that you trust in our officers, and believe they do their jobs correctly, and all that. But, what matters is what is written, not how you guess things will be done. Now, that you’re talking about the training and you seem to know much about it, can you tell me how the “Posse” are trained or how they will be trained. Or if the “Posse” will continue to target illegals at all?
I never once said that the term reasonable suspicion was articulated in the law, I don’t agree with you that it is vague and ambiguous. It is a legal term. All LEOs are well trained in the use of the term as are Judges and lawyers. Not many officers will abuse reasonable suspicion when they know that abuse will be exposed and thrown out of court the first day.
I do “cautiously” trust in our officers of the law and their training. I also believe that the vast majority do their jobs correctly and mostly effectively.

Now, with this definition, I’ll ask you once again, how you think this “Reasonable Suspicion” applies to “Reasonable Suspicion” to believe the individual is an illegal immigrant? As you’ve said the meaning is “somewhat” binding, and yet it is subjective on the officer’s opinion. Then, how in the world can you use it to determine the illegal status of a person? “Because the person didn’t show an ID.” “Because of the training of the officer” Don’t you think that a law that targets people must articulate its terms? Terms that are SUBJECTIVE like “Reasonable Suspicion” allow the officer to racial profile when determining the illegal status of a person.
I’m not a trained LEO, are you? I don’t know all the ins and outs of applying a law and conducting an investigation. I do have ideas how it would be enforced and have posted them already. You’re welcome to look them up if you like. I would think that a person’s illegal status could be determined in two basic ways. One, could be that the suspect admits they are undocumented(illegal) or, two their status is verified through I.C.E.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
The following document, U.S. Immigration Policy on Permanent Admissions by Ruth Ellen Wasem, Specialist in Immigration Policy, April 1, 2010 produced by the Congressional Research Service is an important document for anyone seriously researching the ILLEGAL immigration problem in the U.S., especially as it applies to “string migration”.
String migration is the process of sponsoring a relative for U.S. citizenship.
It has been accepted that immigrants sponsor an average of five (5) relatives within 10 years of themselves gaining citizenship.
What does this mean?
There are an estimated 12 to 36 million ILLEGAL aliens currently in the U.S. How did we come by that number?
Well, in the amnesty of 1986 America was lied to when Ted Kennedy and company told us that there were only 1 million ILLEGALS in the country to be made citizens through amnesty. It turns out there were three (3) times that number
Hence we estimate the current ILLEGAL alien population to be anywhere from 12 to 36 million depending on who is lying to us at any given time.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Texas tourists arrive in Arizona to back SB 1070


‘Buycott’ seeks to counter boycott over Arizona law
Rhonda Bodfield

Roughly 60 people, wearing flip-flops and toting water bottles and generating applause from a small group of onlookers, piled out of a coach bus in front of TownePlace Suites in the middle of the afternoon heat Friday.
“Thanks for coming and welcome to Arizona,” said state Republican Rep. Vic Williams, shaking hands with the Texas tourists who have become the latest symbol in the fight over Arizona’s immigration battle.
Saying they’re countering the Arizona boycott by groups who say the state’s controversial new immigration law will lead to racial profiling, the bus riders – plus a reported 60 others in a caravan meeting them in Tombstone – came armed with dollars to spend. Several wore T-shirts with “God Bless Arizona” on the front and “Texas supports you,” on the back.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Arkansas Petition for Constitutional Amendment Filed to Deny Benefits to ILLEGALS

78,211 signatures filed in anti-alien ballot bid

By Seth Blomeley

A group aiming to deny government benefits to illegal aliens turned in its petition slate Friday in an attempt to get its proposed constitutional amendment on the Nov. 2 general election ballot in Arkansas.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
We really shouldn't need an amendment for stuff like this.......It should be understood that illegals don't get benefits in the first place......
 

KingofBrown

Well-Known Member
So, Cowboy, the only thing you got to back up your support for the term “Reasonable Suspicion” in a law that targets people is your trust in the officers. Since the law doesn’t articulate the term “Reasonable Suspicion,” all people got to do is to trust the police. Trust the police in a state with more civil rights lawsuits than any other, with a Sheriff under the scope of the Justice Department, and many other similar situations. Good back up, Texan.


[FONT=&quot]It’s only new in the use for illegal status because until now there were no state laws regarding this situation.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]I never once said that the term reasonable suspicion was articulated in the law, I don’t agree with you that it is vague and ambiguous. It is a legal term. All LEOs are well trained in the use of the term as are Judges and lawyers. Not many officers will abuse reasonable suspicion when they know that abuse will be exposed and thrown out of court the first day. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do “cautiously” trust in our officers of the law and their training. I also believe that the vast majority do their jobs correctly and mostly effectively.[/FONT]

I’m not a trained LEO, are you? I don’t know all the ins and outs of applying a law and conducting an investigation. I do have ideas how it would be enforced and have posted them already. You’re welcome to look them up if you like. I would think that a person’s illegal status could be determined in two basic ways. One, could be that the suspect admits they are undocumented(illegal) or, two their status is verified through I.C.E.
 

ups1990

Well-Known Member
I agree with you. It is currently out of the scope of State's rights.

BO is missing the boat on this volatile issue. He might secure his party's future if he were to listen to the American people and secure the border first - send the troops to the Southern border.

Once the border is secure, BO would have the majority of Americans looking to come up with a reasonable and viable solution to immigration. I am not opposed to a realistic and common sense approach to a path for citizenship but the border has to be secure first.

One of my biggest requirements would be to make sure these immigrants assimilate into OUR (USA) culture and language. No citizenship without a job, residence, read & write the language. Those who are on the list legally get first opportunity for citizenship. Right now we are hemorrhaging from the illegals crossing the border once it is closed to a trickle we will be able to make adjustments for the good people who are here or want to be here.
Lifer, your last comments are right on point and one that I've been trying to make for a while on this forum. Only a comprehensive bill with strict enforcement of individuals and corporations and legal status for only those meeting certain criteria will once and for all, begin to reign this gigantic and probably the biggest issue facing our nation today. A middle ground resolution will be the only solution.
 
So, Cowboy, the only thing you got to back up your support for the term “Reasonable Suspicion” in a law that targets people is your trust in the officers. Since the law doesn’t articulate the term “Reasonable Suspicion,” all people got to do is to trust the police. Trust the police in a state with more civil rights lawsuits than any other, with a Sheriff under the scope of the Justice Department, and many other similar situations. Good back up, Texan.
You asked for my opinion, I gave it. If you don't like it, it is your problem not mine.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Illegal is Illegal by Any Other Name is ILLEGAL

A policy change on illegal immigraton terminology

Bob Richter – Express-News

“When will the Express-News start being honest with readers,” asked one of those readers, Ben Marshall, “and stop referring to illegal immigrants as undocumented immigrants, or just immigrants? They are purely illegal immigrants. And for those who don’t understand illegal, it means that it isn’t legal.”
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Spanish language barrier hampers police
By KEITH PHUCAS
Times Herald Staff

NORRISTOWN – The language barrier between Norristown Police Department officers and the town’s sizable Spanish-speaking population continues to hinder law enforcement efforts given that none of the officers are fluent in the foreign language, but civil service rules prohibit hiring prospective police solely for their fluency in Spanish.
The department’s sole policeman who spoke fluent Spanish, Officer Ricardo Quiles-Rosa, left the force for a job with Philadelphia Police Department earlier this year.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Figures. Stimulus Money Being Used to Subsidize & Bus Mexican Students Across Border for Free Education
Posted by Jim Hoft on Saturday, July 3, 2010, 4:05 PM
In a town famous for Pancho Villa’s ransacking, the purloining still occurs; this time horses and mules are not disappearing, but taxpayer money is. Columbus, New Mexico is just 3 miles north of Palomas, Mexico and is one of the many border towns mired in the border fence, illegal immigration, and drug smuggling. The culprit in this case, however, is not El Chapo or a coyote, but rather residents in Mexico expecting American taxpayer benefits.
Many families in Palomas, Mexico choose to send their children to Deming Public School District. Regardless of citizenship, these Palomas students are ineligible for Deming Public School education as they live out of the district and are not supporting the school through taxes. In 1996, The Albuquerque Journal noted that students residing in Mexico have been educated in the United States for free for over 40 years.
Judicial Watch investigated this matter of “free” education. For school year 2008-2009, 506 students were transported from the Port of Entry to Deming Public Schools (and this number has been increasing for the past three years). Typically, the students cross the border where a public school bus waits for them and then transports them 30 miles to the schools in Deming. The source of funding for theses students is part of the district allotment which is based on services (busing, English as a second language, etc). Based on an average district enrollment of 5447, total operational cost of $36,254,672, and 460 students bused from the port of entry in 2007-2008, on average $3,061,712.71 was spent on students picked up at the Port of Entry. The law firm handling the request specifically notes that “funding is based on total services for all the students in the district and is not calculated on a child by child method. Therefore, we do not have the information of the funding by any specific child.” In essence, if the school is already providing such services, then the additional students may not be costing anything extra; but here’s the catch, 460 students is necessarily going to result in a need for more services like additional teachers, additional meals, transportation, special instruction, etc. The amount of additional money is not insignificant especially given that New Mexico will receive $537,047,803 from President Obama’s stimulus plan to “lay the foundation for a generation of education reform and help save thousands of teaching jobs at risk due to state and local budget cuts.” That’s right, the stimulus money will indirectly be funding education for students whose families do not pay taxes.
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.co...an-students-across-border-for-free-education/

 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Mexicans Use Severed heads as Hood Ornaments
3 decapitated bodies found in burned car in Mexican drug state; heads left on hood of vehicle

CULIACAN, Mexico (AP) —
Police have found the decapitated bodies of three men inside a burned-out car in the drug gang-plagued Mexican state of Sinaloa. The heads had been put on the vehicle’s hood.
The Sinaloa state attorney general’s office says one of the burned bodies was in the driver’s seat, another in the back seat and the third was in the trunk.
Investigators found the car Monday in the city of Angostura, near the Pacific coast.
The office’s statement provided no information on possible suspects or the motive for the killings.
Sinaloa has long been considered the home state of many of Mexico’s most powerful drug lords.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
64% Reject Anchor-Baby Auto-Citizenship

“64% in Arizona Say Children of Illegal Immigrants Should Not Automatically Become U.S. Citizens”

Arizona legislators are already being criticized for another tough measure they are considering to combat illegal immigration – denying birth certificates to children born to illegal immigrants in the state.
A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of Likely Voters in Arizona finds that 64% agree that children born to illegal immigrants should not automatically become citizens of the United States. Twenty-six percent (26%) disagree and say these children should become U.S. citizens.
Nationally, 58% of voters say a child born to an illegal immigrant in this country should not automatically become a citizen of the United States. Thirty-three percent (33%) disagree and say if a women enters the United States illegally and gives birth to a child here, that child should automatically be a U.S. citizen. That’s what the current law allows, and many believe it would require a constitutional amendment to change the law.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Washington, DC -- July 6Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton issued the following statement in response to today’s lawsuit filed by the Obama Justice Department against Arizona over its illegal immigration law set to go into effect on July 29:
“The Obama administration admits in today's lawsuit that it doesn't want to fully enforce our laws against illegal immigration — and that Arizona's law, SB 1070, gets in the way of this. In the end, this fight comes down to those who want our laws against illegal immigration enforced and those who don't,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.
 
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