Arizona's anti-imigration law...
- Thread starter Lue C Fur
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Babagounj
Strength through joy
Since there is not cure, just how is obamacare going to deal with this ?
moreluck
golden ticket member
It's true, sometimes tourists would bring them back, but now it's becoming scary!
http://www.thirdage.com/news/dengue-fever-hits-florida-health-advisory-issued_7-26-2010
http://www.thirdage.com/news/dengue-fever-hits-florida-health-advisory-issued_7-26-2010
klein
Für Meno :)
And where does it say it comes from illegals, since Florida doesn't even border another country ?
Or did you mean illegal boat-people ?
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
Oh no, Señorita, the Constitution of the USA is for the people living under the Jurisdictions that are subject to the Government of the United States of America. And Illegal and Legal Aliens, although they're not Citizens, are also covered by the Constitution. Of course they don't have the right to vote among several others, but they are covered by the most important rights, The Bill of Rights.
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
You still have not answered my question. Try to stay focused.
From the first you have stated time after time that Illegal aliens’ rights are being violated. By that light, they are being denied (loosing) Constitutional rights. Please point to me the posts where I have stated this, and how I said they violated Illegals’ Constitutional Rights. You always mix things up. I’d like to read those posts. Or are you just throwing words like saying that Ron Gochez is affiliated to NCLR? By the way, you haven’t presented your facts, have you? LOL. Oh, Cowboy. How do you want me to answer a question of things you make up?
Here you are comparing illegal immigrants to bank robbers, indicating that you think rights are being lost.
Look, you’re the one that have to stay focus and try to read everything on this thread, not just what you like. I would never compare an Illegal Immigrant with a Bank Robber, because a Bank Robber is a felon, and Illegals, as I have stated it many times, are not. This is where this came from. The person who compare Illegal Immigrants with Felons was… Moreluck!
Fighting for illegals is like fighting in favor of the bank robber.......they are both commiting a crime !!- Moreluck
And my answer was:Criminals also have rights. And as I have stated it many times, I'm against illegal immigration. But, I'm more against radical measures such as SB1070. Or do you think that a person loses his/her rights because he/she robbed a bank?- The King.
Moreluck said that defending illegals is like something despicable. And she is the one that compares Illegal Immigrants to Felons, like many in here that compare Illegals to Rapists, Killers, Terrorists, Drug Smugglers etc. etc. etc. Something I disagree with.
Now, I told her what I defend and what I’m against to. But, just because there’s a person who you think or are sure that robbed a bank, do you also think that that person doesn’t deserve to have a defense, in other words do you think that that person doesn’t deserve a lawyer? Do you also think that by robbing a bank you lose your right to have a lawyer? If you do think like that I think you should take a reading somewhere else before trying to debate on this thread.
And then, so you’re sure that I’m not the one comparing Illegals to Felons:
If you're a bank robber, do you get to vote?
Yes, convicted felons DO lose rights!- Moreluck.
And my answer was:
FELONS! Are Illegal Aliens Felons? I've already said they're not, but it seems you still look at them that way. However, Felons do not lose all their rights.- The King
Now, do you guys see how absurd is to compare Illegals to Felons, like saying that if you defend Illegals is like defending a Felon?
Now, Texan, I think I deserve an apology from you for that, and I’d like you to give that point of view you got to moreluck, I think that was more towards her.
From the first you have stated time after time that Illegal aliens’ rights are being violated. By that light, they are being denied (loosing) Constitutional rights. Please point to me the posts where I have stated this, and how I said they violated Illegals’ Constitutional Rights. You always mix things up. I’d like to read those posts. Or are you just throwing words like saying that Ron Gochez is affiliated to NCLR? By the way, you haven’t presented your facts, have you? LOL. Oh, Cowboy. How do you want me to answer a question of things you make up?
Here you are comparing illegal immigrants to bank robbers, indicating that you think rights are being lost.
Look, you’re the one that have to stay focus and try to read everything on this thread, not just what you like. I would never compare an Illegal Immigrant with a Bank Robber, because a Bank Robber is a felon, and Illegals, as I have stated it many times, are not. This is where this came from. The person who compare Illegal Immigrants with Felons was… Moreluck!
Fighting for illegals is like fighting in favor of the bank robber.......they are both commiting a crime !!- Moreluck
And my answer was:Criminals also have rights. And as I have stated it many times, I'm against illegal immigration. But, I'm more against radical measures such as SB1070. Or do you think that a person loses his/her rights because he/she robbed a bank?- The King.
Moreluck said that defending illegals is like something despicable. And she is the one that compares Illegal Immigrants to Felons, like many in here that compare Illegals to Rapists, Killers, Terrorists, Drug Smugglers etc. etc. etc. Something I disagree with.
Now, I told her what I defend and what I’m against to. But, just because there’s a person who you think or are sure that robbed a bank, do you also think that that person doesn’t deserve to have a defense, in other words do you think that that person doesn’t deserve a lawyer? Do you also think that by robbing a bank you lose your right to have a lawyer? If you do think like that I think you should take a reading somewhere else before trying to debate on this thread.
And then, so you’re sure that I’m not the one comparing Illegals to Felons:
If you're a bank robber, do you get to vote?
Yes, convicted felons DO lose rights!- Moreluck.
And my answer was:
FELONS! Are Illegal Aliens Felons? I've already said they're not, but it seems you still look at them that way. However, Felons do not lose all their rights.- The King
Now, do you guys see how absurd is to compare Illegals to Felons, like saying that if you defend Illegals is like defending a Felon?
Now, Texan, I think I deserve an apology from you for that, and I’d like you to give that point of view you got to moreluck, I think that was more towards her.
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
Here I was simply asking what rights had been lost, as you had implied above.
And then Super Cowboy came to the rescue with this post and which I answered:
Depending on what state felons are convicted in, they may well loose the right to vote.-The Cowboy So? Is the Right to Vote all the rights "We The People" have?-The King
IMO, Illegal aliens, regardless of their home/native country should be considered a felon.-The Cowboy Well, it's just your opinion. But it's nice that you placed the "regardless of their home/native country," however still to radical for me, IMO-The King
I said that Felons do not lose all their rights. And you said with all your knowledge, that they lose their right to vote. And I asked you is the right to vote ALL the rights we got? Oh, and you also think that Illegal Aliens should be considered Felons. Well, Texan, one thing is what you think, and another is what exists. Stop comparing Illegal Aliens to Felons, until they are considered otherwise. Just an advice from my part.
The Bill of Rights are to protect a person's RIGHTS.
Oh, no Texan. The Bill of Rights are not to protect a person’s RIGHTS. No no, that’s a misunderstood and generalize remark. The Bill of Rights are that: RIGHTS! The most important Rights of our Constitution.
When you say that the 5th Amendment answers the question, you are saying it is protecting a right. By invoking the 5th you are suggesting a right has been violated, denied, lost. Again, you’re stating things in your Scholar way. The Fifth Amendment is a right, not someone invoking it to say it protects a certain right that has been violated, denied or lost. This is the problem with you. I said in my quote that they are covered by the 5th Amendment, which is a right. And you have mixed things up in your scholar way to say that the 5th Amendment is just used to protect some other right. No, Texan, the 5th Amendment is a RIGHT. A RIGHT! One of the most important Rights we have. May be if you would have cited the 9th Amendment you would be right, but you mixed things up, once again. By the way, have you read the Bill of Rights?
Regarding this, here was your statement:
Just what right have they lost if they commit another crime (except being here ILLEGALLY), arrested and have their status verified?- The Cowboy.
And I answered:
Basically, and don't be surprised, Illegal Aliens are covered by our precious "Bill of Rights," among others depending on the state. And now that you cited the "another crime" the 5th Amendment would answer that question.I mean not that they lost, but that they are covered by that Amendment too.Your statement was like "Illegal Aliens don't have rights. What could have they lost?"–The King.
And:
But, that's a good point. Felons are a bit like Illegal Aliens regarding their rights. But, that's not the same as saying that Illegal Aliens are like Felons.
Just to be sure. Do you know they’re protected by our Bill of Rights?
I still want to know how you would apply the 5th Amendment to the scenario that I suggested? You are the one that brought up the 5th amendment in this discussion, you have yet to state how it applies.
First you have yet to state where I said they violate the Fifth Amendment when they arrest an Illegal. TELL ME WHERE!? I don’t think you’ll find it. Read the sentences in red several times. I said they are covered by the Fifth Amendment, empasizing you that they are covered by our same rights. I never said that Illegals lose the right of the 5th Amendment if they get arrested, I said they are covered by that on the supposed situation you came out with.
Now do you understand the point of why I said any criminal still has rights? When Moreluck mentioned that defending Illegals is like defending Felons, as if they don’t have the right to be defended by whoever they want, like a lawyer. Do you know that they have that RIGHT!? Now, I hope that you understand why I said Illegals have rights, and that they are covered by the Fifth Amendment on that situation you mentioned. And if you still insist on this, I want you to tell me where the heck did I say that they lose their right to remain silent if they get arrested. WHERE!?
Really, Cowboy, you need to understand what “reading between the lines” is.
However, I’ll explain you how under SB1070 the 5th Amendment could be violated. But first answer: DO YOU AGREE THAT ILLEGALS ARE COVERED BY THE BILL OF RIGHTS? YES or NO?
And then Super Cowboy came to the rescue with this post and which I answered:
Depending on what state felons are convicted in, they may well loose the right to vote.-The Cowboy So? Is the Right to Vote all the rights "We The People" have?-The King
IMO, Illegal aliens, regardless of their home/native country should be considered a felon.-The Cowboy Well, it's just your opinion. But it's nice that you placed the "regardless of their home/native country," however still to radical for me, IMO-The King
I said that Felons do not lose all their rights. And you said with all your knowledge, that they lose their right to vote. And I asked you is the right to vote ALL the rights we got? Oh, and you also think that Illegal Aliens should be considered Felons. Well, Texan, one thing is what you think, and another is what exists. Stop comparing Illegal Aliens to Felons, until they are considered otherwise. Just an advice from my part.
The Bill of Rights are to protect a person's RIGHTS.
Oh, no Texan. The Bill of Rights are not to protect a person’s RIGHTS. No no, that’s a misunderstood and generalize remark. The Bill of Rights are that: RIGHTS! The most important Rights of our Constitution.
When you say that the 5th Amendment answers the question, you are saying it is protecting a right. By invoking the 5th you are suggesting a right has been violated, denied, lost. Again, you’re stating things in your Scholar way. The Fifth Amendment is a right, not someone invoking it to say it protects a certain right that has been violated, denied or lost. This is the problem with you. I said in my quote that they are covered by the 5th Amendment, which is a right. And you have mixed things up in your scholar way to say that the 5th Amendment is just used to protect some other right. No, Texan, the 5th Amendment is a RIGHT. A RIGHT! One of the most important Rights we have. May be if you would have cited the 9th Amendment you would be right, but you mixed things up, once again. By the way, have you read the Bill of Rights?
Regarding this, here was your statement:
Just what right have they lost if they commit another crime (except being here ILLEGALLY), arrested and have their status verified?- The Cowboy.
And I answered:
Basically, and don't be surprised, Illegal Aliens are covered by our precious "Bill of Rights," among others depending on the state. And now that you cited the "another crime" the 5th Amendment would answer that question.I mean not that they lost, but that they are covered by that Amendment too.Your statement was like "Illegal Aliens don't have rights. What could have they lost?"–The King.
And:
But, that's a good point. Felons are a bit like Illegal Aliens regarding their rights. But, that's not the same as saying that Illegal Aliens are like Felons.
Just to be sure. Do you know they’re protected by our Bill of Rights?
I still want to know how you would apply the 5th Amendment to the scenario that I suggested? You are the one that brought up the 5th amendment in this discussion, you have yet to state how it applies.
First you have yet to state where I said they violate the Fifth Amendment when they arrest an Illegal. TELL ME WHERE!? I don’t think you’ll find it. Read the sentences in red several times. I said they are covered by the Fifth Amendment, empasizing you that they are covered by our same rights. I never said that Illegals lose the right of the 5th Amendment if they get arrested, I said they are covered by that on the supposed situation you came out with.
Now do you understand the point of why I said any criminal still has rights? When Moreluck mentioned that defending Illegals is like defending Felons, as if they don’t have the right to be defended by whoever they want, like a lawyer. Do you know that they have that RIGHT!? Now, I hope that you understand why I said Illegals have rights, and that they are covered by the Fifth Amendment on that situation you mentioned. And if you still insist on this, I want you to tell me where the heck did I say that they lose their right to remain silent if they get arrested. WHERE!?
Really, Cowboy, you need to understand what “reading between the lines” is.
However, I’ll explain you how under SB1070 the 5th Amendment could be violated. But first answer: DO YOU AGREE THAT ILLEGALS ARE COVERED BY THE BILL OF RIGHTS? YES or NO?
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
See, this is where politics gets in the way of getting things done. Close the border and fix the immigration laws. Anyone in their right mind can't believe we are going to deport 12 to 20 million illegal aliens. Let's get the illegals registered give them work permits - make sure they learn English to assimilate into AMERICA and make sure they are supporting themselves. They shouldn't come here for a hand out.
Allow them to be here legally as long as they have a job and don't commit criminal acts and learn ENGLISH. I don't think they should be able to bypass those who have been waiting legally to become citizens. They need to wait their turn to become citizens (if that is what they want).
Once the border is closed and the registration period is closed..... - Those coming in illegally (or failed to register) are deported with no exceptions.
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-kaye/arizona-police-agencies-i_b_661339.html
The training video devotes a separate section to the hot-button issue of racial profiling. "Racial profiling is police misconduct," says Mann into the camera. But Santa Cruz County sheriff Tony Estrada takes a dim view of the repeated admonitions. "Every speaker keeps saying over and over 'there will be no racial profiling,'" he observed. "And I say to myself, 'If there is no racial profiling, why do you keep harping about racial profiling unless you're really concerned about it?' No matter how you amend, it, no matter how you tweak it, no matter how you disguise it, it's racial profiling. You're focusing on a particular group of people."
The training video devotes a separate section to the hot-button issue of racial profiling. "Racial profiling is police misconduct," says Mann into the camera. But Santa Cruz County sheriff Tony Estrada takes a dim view of the repeated admonitions. "Every speaker keeps saying over and over 'there will be no racial profiling,'" he observed. "And I say to myself, 'If there is no racial profiling, why do you keep harping about racial profiling unless you're really concerned about it?' No matter how you amend, it, no matter how you tweak it, no matter how you disguise it, it's racial profiling. You're focusing on a particular group of people."
KingofBrown
Well-Known Member
Hey, new polls. A little bit different than the past ones, but I guess they don't change much. But, these are just out of the oven. Oh, one thing, I don't think Judge Susan Bolton will use them to validate SB1070 as some people do. Well, let's hope so.
One true thing rises above all the controversy over Senate Bill 1070: People know it is not the answer.
Yes, polls show the state's ill-conceived immigration law is popular.
But polls also show that the people understand complexities their political leaders ignore.
An Arizona Republic poll found 62 percent support allowing illegal immigrants who are living here now to remain in the country if they have a job and no criminal record.
The same poll found 55 percent of Arizonans support SB 1070.
The strategy often damned as "amnesty" is more popular than the get-tough law.
An Arizona Republic poll found 62 percent support allowing illegal immigrants who are living here now to remain in the country if they have a job and no criminal record.
The same poll found 55 percent of Arizonans support SB 1070.
The strategy often damned as "amnesty" is more popular than the get-tough law.
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UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
KOB
I think you miss the whole point.... Zonies want the border closed and locked up tight. Everything else is secondary. Your president doesn't want to close the border contrary to most of the population. We need to do what ever it takes to continue to send a message to the uber elitists in Washington. I am real proud that my state took a stand and took the hit for all of America to wake up to the growing problem of criminal trespass on American and Arizona soil.
I watched this take over first hand in California (I feel badly for the citizens in the southern counties) and I don't want to see it happen here in Arizona.
BTW - The law is not ill conceived and I don't know what polls you are looking at ...but the majority of citizens I know don't want to see amnesty given in AZ.
I think you miss the whole point.... Zonies want the border closed and locked up tight. Everything else is secondary. Your president doesn't want to close the border contrary to most of the population. We need to do what ever it takes to continue to send a message to the uber elitists in Washington. I am real proud that my state took a stand and took the hit for all of America to wake up to the growing problem of criminal trespass on American and Arizona soil.
I watched this take over first hand in California (I feel badly for the citizens in the southern counties) and I don't want to see it happen here in Arizona.
BTW - The law is not ill conceived and I don't know what polls you are looking at ...but the majority of citizens I know don't want to see amnesty given in AZ.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Previously Deported ILLEGAL Fights Police
Facing deportation, man battles with Auburn police
By Linda Bock
TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
AUBURN — A 30-year-old man who had been deported to Brazil once already scuffled with police at a traffic stop last night after an officer realized that the man’s documents were falsified, according to police.
Police Officer Daniel A. Lamoreaux stopped a vehicle driven by Luiz Damasceno, of 212 Arlington St., Framingham, for speeding on Route 20 about 10:15 last night.
When Officer Lamoreaux checked the passport and Social Security documents provided by Mr. Damasceno, the officer realized the documents were counterfeit, according to Detective Sgt. Jeffrey A. Lourie.
Facing deportation, man battles with Auburn police
By Linda Bock
TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
AUBURN — A 30-year-old man who had been deported to Brazil once already scuffled with police at a traffic stop last night after an officer realized that the man’s documents were falsified, according to police.
Police Officer Daniel A. Lamoreaux stopped a vehicle driven by Luiz Damasceno, of 212 Arlington St., Framingham, for speeding on Route 20 about 10:15 last night.
When Officer Lamoreaux checked the passport and Social Security documents provided by Mr. Damasceno, the officer realized the documents were counterfeit, according to Detective Sgt. Jeffrey A. Lourie.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
And now a real heart breaking story from CNN
ILLEGALS Make Excuses Why They Can’t Go Home
They came here , over stayed their visa or just paid a coyote for the trip and now they would like to go home, but............
traveling by plane would expose them to being here illegally and they face imprisonment, anyone entering Mexico from the USA who is not mexican without proper papers equals jail. Just what are they poor souls to do.
ILLEGALS Make Excuses Why They Can’t Go Home
They came here , over stayed their visa or just paid a coyote for the trip and now they would like to go home, but............
traveling by plane would expose them to being here illegally and they face imprisonment, anyone entering Mexico from the USA who is not mexican without proper papers equals jail. Just what are they poor souls to do.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Obama Still Planning on Amnesty by Executive Order?
U.S. Sen. Grassley: Senators again ask administration if plans are underway for large-scale de facto amnesty
WASHINGTON — In response to the administration’s silence and lack of a denial, Senator Chuck Grassley and 11 other senators again have asked top government officials if the Obama administration has plans, as has been rumored, to unilaterally extend either “deferred action” or “parole” to millions of illegal immigrants in the United States. The senators are asking the Secretary of Homeland Security to reveal how many times the department has used its discretionary authority to let people who are illegally in the country to stay. This authority is meant to be used only in unusual, emergent or humanitarian circumstances.
“The administration has yet to answer our letter about reports that it may be planning a large-scale, de facto amnesty program through deferred action and parole. By shedding a little light on the numbers, we’re working to get to the bottom of the administration’s plans,” Grassley said. “If it wants to claim that discretionary authority is being used on a case-by-case basis, then let’s determine if these cases are truly meritorious.”
U.S. Sen. Grassley: Senators again ask administration if plans are underway for large-scale de facto amnesty
WASHINGTON — In response to the administration’s silence and lack of a denial, Senator Chuck Grassley and 11 other senators again have asked top government officials if the Obama administration has plans, as has been rumored, to unilaterally extend either “deferred action” or “parole” to millions of illegal immigrants in the United States. The senators are asking the Secretary of Homeland Security to reveal how many times the department has used its discretionary authority to let people who are illegally in the country to stay. This authority is meant to be used only in unusual, emergent or humanitarian circumstances.
“The administration has yet to answer our letter about reports that it may be planning a large-scale, de facto amnesty program through deferred action and parole. By shedding a little light on the numbers, we’re working to get to the bottom of the administration’s plans,” Grassley said. “If it wants to claim that discretionary authority is being used on a case-by-case basis, then let’s determine if these cases are truly meritorious.”
Babagounj
Strength through joy
(Fox News) — Arizona’s tourism industry has a target on its back, but the widespread boycotts over the state’s immigration law might not be hitting the mark.
Recent data compiled by a market research group show hotel bookings across the state — as well as in tourism hot spots Phoenix and Scottsdale — have been on the rise the past two months.
The numbers could dispel warnings from local officials that Arizona stands to lose a fortune and dampen the chances that cities and organizations will be able to compel the state to reverse its immigration law by choking its economy with a sanctions-style business boycott.
“Fundamentally, the boycotts have been unsuccessful,” said Barry Broome, president of the Greater Phoenix Economic Council.
The data from hotel industry research firm STR showed that for the state of Arizona, hotel occupancy was up 5.7 percent in May and up 8.3 percent in June compared with the same time a year ago.
In Phoenix, occupancy was up 10.6 percent in June; in Scottsdale, it was up 10.7 percent for the same period. Revenue also was up, with Arizona hotels raking in $148 million last month — up more than 11 percent from a year ago.
Broome said the state also has been able to attract new businesses to locate in Arizona despite bad publicity. He said his group plans to announce 2,000 to 3,000 new jobs thanks to investment from California, where Arizona boycotts are in place in several major cities, over the next few months.
“Business continues,” said Garrick Taylor, spokesman with the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry.
Recent data compiled by a market research group show hotel bookings across the state — as well as in tourism hot spots Phoenix and Scottsdale — have been on the rise the past two months.
The numbers could dispel warnings from local officials that Arizona stands to lose a fortune and dampen the chances that cities and organizations will be able to compel the state to reverse its immigration law by choking its economy with a sanctions-style business boycott.
“Fundamentally, the boycotts have been unsuccessful,” said Barry Broome, president of the Greater Phoenix Economic Council.
The data from hotel industry research firm STR showed that for the state of Arizona, hotel occupancy was up 5.7 percent in May and up 8.3 percent in June compared with the same time a year ago.
In Phoenix, occupancy was up 10.6 percent in June; in Scottsdale, it was up 10.7 percent for the same period. Revenue also was up, with Arizona hotels raking in $148 million last month — up more than 11 percent from a year ago.
Broome said the state also has been able to attract new businesses to locate in Arizona despite bad publicity. He said his group plans to announce 2,000 to 3,000 new jobs thanks to investment from California, where Arizona boycotts are in place in several major cities, over the next few months.
“Business continues,” said Garrick Taylor, spokesman with the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
What is it With Mexicans and Severed Heads?
Severed heads found in Mexican city, prosecutors say
By the CNN Wire Staff
(CNN) — Eight severed heads were found Tuesday in Durango, a city in central Mexico, the state attorney general’s office said.
The heads were found in four locations in the city, which is the seat of the state by the same name.
The remains have not been identified and the bodies have not been found, the prosecutors said.
CNN’s Ariel Crespo and Tanya Soto contributed to this report.
Severed heads found in Mexican city, prosecutors say
By the CNN Wire Staff
(CNN) — Eight severed heads were found Tuesday in Durango, a city in central Mexico, the state attorney general’s office said.
The heads were found in four locations in the city, which is the seat of the state by the same name.
The remains have not been identified and the bodies have not been found, the prosecutors said.
CNN’s Ariel Crespo and Tanya Soto contributed to this report.
