Ask a Feeder Driver, Feeder Driver FAQ

[SaladTosser]

You only have to get doubles/triples

Typically, no reason to go o/o when you can make $120k+ and be home every day, with full benefit package and none of the business owner headache.

Agreed. Although it doesn’t hurt to get every endorsement just in case there’s a better opportunity.

 

[HFolb23]

I have two coworkers who are multiple truck owners, have hired drivers, but spend their own time driving UPS tractors.

I have friends who are O/O, and I definitely wish I was driving the flashy, loud, custom rigs they have, but my brown Mack looks a lot better when my friends are doing in-frames, replacing turbos, getting harassed by DOT, etc.

I pretty much gave up any dream of being an owner someday when one of those coworkers showed me a $42k wrecker bill from when one of his drivers rolled a truck and trailer.

 

[Package Stick]

Lol @ becoming an O/O after being a feeder driver.

I'm friends with a retired feeder and he switched after learning how much a union company driver earns.

He said the biggest stress relief was when he broke down and didn't have to pay the tow bill (as HFolb23 said), and got paid to wait.

 

[quad decade guy]

I have two coworkers who are multiple truck owners, have hired drivers, but spend their own time driving UPS tractors.

I have friends who are O/O, and I definitely wish I was driving the flashy, loud, custom rigs they have, but my brown Mack looks a lot better when my friends are doing in-frames, replacing turbos, getting harassed by DOT, etc.

I pretty much gave up any dream of being an owner someday when one of those coworkers showed me a $42k wrecker bill from when one of his drivers rolled a truck and trailer.

Ok.

These coworkers....are they bound by hours of service?

Why? Well, when do they "manage" their employees? If you spend one second "working" during your reset period....you are in violation. No? You bet. Please don't say he does nothing for his business. Who dealt with the wrecker folks and all that.....insurance claims? Scheduling maintenance?

Say, why don't you go sleepers? You crave the shiny wheel lifestyle.....and at UPS it pays $150k. Never lifting a finger except driving.

And your friends who have these side businesses.....that will all come out in discovery in an accident investigation. Remember, this is Federal stuff. DOT/NTSB.

Why? We had a fatality in our group. He was infamous for having a "family" business. Wife ran it. But he openly talked about working there. He rear ended another semi early in the morning(over-night). Killing himself. Fatigue? See?

The NTSB does causality/contributing factors analysis....including fatigue factors.

Again, I will cite the Walmart crash of a few years ago. Killed a bus full of students(a few). Running falsified logs and all the rest of what that takes.....Sued? Oh yes.

 

[HFolb23]

Ok.

These coworkers....are they bound by hours of service?

Why? Well, when do they "manage" their employees? If you spend one second "working" during your reset period....you are in violation. No? You bet. Please don't say he does nothing for his business. Who dealt with the wrecker folks and all that.....insurance claims? Scheduling maintenance?

Say, why don't you go sleepers? You crave the shiny wheel lifestyle.....and at UPS it pays $150k. Never lifting a finger except driving.

And your friends who have these side businesses.....that will all come out in discovery in an accident investigation. Remember, this is Federal stuff. DOT/NTSB.

Why? We had a fatality in our group. He was infamous for having a "family" business. Wife ran it. But he openly talked about working there. He rear ended another semi early in the morning(over-night). Killing himself. Fatigue? See?

The NTSB does causality/contributing factors analysis....including fatigue factors.

Again, I will cite the Walmart crash of a few years ago. Killed a bus full of students(a few). Running falsified logs and all the rest of what that takes.....Sued? Oh yes.

Couldn’t tell you when they manage them, never thought that far into it. I’m not DOT, not my place to question how someone else handles their business. I know one of them has a sweet looking old school GMC as one of his tractors, I think the other guy runs Volvos. I’d imagine they could run most of that business via Bluetooth headset while he’s wearing brown.

Sleepers? I work in a center with 6 feeder drivers, we’ll never have a sleeper team. I don’t see what’s shiny about a rental Cascadia and I enjoy being home daily anyways. My friends run 379s and W9s, one owns a Western Star log truck, that’s more along the lines of what comes to mind when I think of an aesthetically pleasing truck.

 

[quad decade guy]

Couldn’t tell you when they manage them, never thought that far into it. I’m not DOT, not my place to question how someone else handles their business. I know one of them has a sweet looking old school GMC as one of his tractors, I think the other guy runs Volvos. I’d imagine they could run most of that business via Bluetooth headset while he’s wearing brown.

Sleepers? I work in a center with 6 feeder drivers, we’ll never have a sleeper team. I don’t see what’s shiny about a rental Cascadia and I enjoy being home daily anyways. My friends run 379s and W9s, one owns a Western Star log truck, that’s more along the lines of what comes to mind when I think of an aesthetically pleasing truck.

I said shiny wheel lifestyle.....

So, you've acknowledged the time needed to run a company. Can you see the conflict? So, would you also acknowledge perhaps stealing time from UPS while all this is going on?

Never seen a nice log truck.....

It isn't your place to question true.....

But it is UPS's and DOT. Hey, everything is cool(perhaps not legal) until something happens.

Speaking of roll-overs.....I see 2-3 per week on my run. Why do you think that is? Maybe they are running companies while they are driving down the road?

 

[trickpony1]

Quad Decade-
Can I condense your post #9727 down to one simple question?

It's my understanding that one can do unlimited "volunteer work" that will not violate HOS.

-Can one not become fatigued from volunteer work?
-Can one's sleep not be affected by volunteer work?
-Can one's cognitive capacity be affected by volunteer work?

I'm not trying to be combative or a smart ###, I'm just trying to understand this concept that has confused me for 30+ years.

The hinging factor seems to be MONEY. If one does not get paid apparently volunteer work doesn't take a toll on the human body.

Help me out.
Kick it back.

 

[quad decade guy]

Ok.
Fair enough.

I suppose a difference had to be established by law. You didn't mention for example: anything else you do after work....like say you throw all night parties all weekend and get no rest.....but part time prostitution would be working. Or say chopping firewood all weekend.

Your points are good questions and show the absurdity of the law. Which then puts the burden on the worker. Up to them to get "proper rest"....

So, in the end....as you said....not being paid makes it at least legal. Smart? Whole other subject.

 

[quad decade guy]

Quad Decade-
Can I condense your post #9727 down to one simple question?

It's my understanding that one can do unlimited "volunteer work" that will not violate HOS.

-Can one not become fatigued from volunteer work?
-Can one's sleep not be affected by volunteer work?
-Can one's cognitive capacity be affected by volunteer work?

I'm not trying to be combative or a smart ###, I'm just trying to understand this concept that has confused me for 30+ years.

The hinging factor seems to be MONEY. If one does not get paid apparently volunteer work doesn't take a toll on the human body.

Help me out.
Kick it back.

I encourage anyone to read NTSB accident reports.....especially Aviation related. Fatigue factors are always explored.

The law was established as a red line. You can't work for hire while you are resting. Whether it's your own business or not. Can this be worked around? Not really. You are being paid somehow. I would think a judge or jury would probably find against you. If you had an accident while talking on the phone to one of your employees about your business in a UPS vehicle or while say doing a pretrip.....whatever.....would you be stealing time?

It's not just volunteer work....it's life in general.

Personally, I work and sleep in my 60 hour workweek. That's about it. Doing only what is absolutely necessary until the weekend. I want to get some experience as an aviation mechanic(I am one now but driving a feeder) before retirement. No-one is interested in me "volunteering" as they have to account for their time and books. And no-one really works on the weekends anyway.....so I just have to wait. I got my mechanics license(at a local junior college) while in feeders. I had the same run for the 2 years it took to graduate. Getting about 4 hours of sleep. For 2 years. This is/was pretty foolish. I studied a lot on the weekends too.

Do you notice how defensive folks get and work arounds are immediately deployed to justify "moonlighting"?

Bottom line? If there wasn't a law or standard.....folks would work 24/7 like the old days.

 

[HFolb23]

Its not necessarily that cut and dry when it comes to not working during a reset. I’m at drill right now, I’ll be here all weekend. I’ll have about 14-16 hours off between the time I’m released from drill Sunday and the time I punch into work on Monday. I’m getting paid for being here, but it still counts as “off-duty” time and doesn’t effect my 34 hour reset.

 

[AttackedHawk34]

Great information being exchanged

 

[burrheadd]

Ok.

These coworkers....are they bound by hours of service?

Why? Well, when do they "manage" their employees? If you spend one second "working" during your reset period....you are in violation. No? You bet. Please don't say he does nothing for his business. Who dealt with the wrecker folks and all that.....insurance claims? Scheduling maintenance?

Say, why don't you go sleepers? You crave the shiny wheel lifestyle.....and at UPS it pays $150k. Never lifting a finger except driving.

And your friends who have these side businesses.....that will all come out in discovery in an accident investigation. Remember, this is Federal stuff. DOT/NTSB.

Why? We had a fatality in our group. He was infamous for having a "family" business. Wife ran it. But he openly talked about working there. He rear ended another semi early in the morning(over-night). Killing himself. Fatigue? See?

The NTSB does causality/contributing factors analysis....including fatigue factors.

Again, I will cite the Walmart crash of a few years ago. Killed a bus full of students(a few). Running falsified logs and all the rest of what that takes.....Sued? Oh yes.

Debbie Downers got nothing on this mope

 

[WannaBeFeeder]

I encourage anyone to read NTSB accident reports.....especially Aviation related. Fatigue factors are always explored.

The law was established as a red line. You can't work for hire while you are resting. Whether it's your own business or not. Can this be worked around? Not really. You are being paid somehow. I would think a judge or jury would probably find against you. If you had an accident while talking on the phone to one of your employees about your business in a UPS vehicle or while say doing a pretrip.....whatever.....would you be stealing time?

It's not just volunteer work....it's life in general.

Personally, I work and sleep in my 60 hour workweek. That's about it. Doing only what is absolutely necessary until the weekend. I want to get some experience as an aviation mechanic(I am one now but driving a feeder) before retirement. No-one is interested in me "volunteering" as they have to account for their time and books. And no-one really works on the weekends anyway.....so I just have to wait. I got my mechanics license(at a local junior college) while in feeders. I had the same run for the 2 years it took to graduate. Getting about 4 hours of sleep. For 2 years. This is/was pretty foolish. I studied a lot on the weekends too.

Do you notice how defensive folks get and work arounds are immediately deployed to justify "moonlighting"?

Bottom line? If there wasn't a law or standard.....folks would work 24/7 like the old days.

Lmao just scroll nobody is reading all of this shxt

 

[AlphaCureMom]

If done right, stewardship and safety are thankless jobs. The good ones define true service.

What this man said. If you have terrible people in safety or as Stewards you know damn well and just straight up lose respect for your brothers or sisters doing the job

 

[quad decade guy]

Lmao just scroll nobody is reading all of this shxt

Laugh it up......shrug.

May you live in interesting times.....

Just the kinda guy that kills someone or himself and wonders what happened...

Accidents here and there. Being fired here and there....

Just the kinda guy that knows better.....

True nobody isn't reading it....

You are truly a nobody. Bravo.

 

[quad decade guy]

What this man said. If you have terrible people in safety or as Stewards you know damn well and just straight up lose respect for your brothers or sisters doing the job

Well, terrible people in safety, stewardship and fellow drivers. Blind leading the blind. Dangerous people leading dangerous people. Add in contractors and PVD's held to no account or standards/practices.....we are in dangerous times.

 

[quad decade guy]

View attachment 363352
Debbie Downers got nothing on this mope

Shrug.

Ask me how to have a long, safe and productive career.

 

[quad decade guy]

Its not necessarily that cut and dry when it comes to not working during a reset. I’m at drill right now, I’ll be here all weekend. I’ll have about 14-16 hours off between the time I’m released from drill Sunday and the time I punch into work on Monday. I’m getting paid for being here, but it still counts as “off-duty” time and doesn’t effect my 34 hour reset.

True. 395.2

But this is an exception not relevant to this conversation.

It is interesting though....

As if working while on reset for the military doesn't affect fatigue.....Someone in the Govt. thought this was a good idea.

To be clear: good for the reserve guys. Thank you for your service.

This is akin to pilots commuting to their home base of operations. They are supposed to be resting...yet spend a lot of their time on airplanes and pilot lounges...this was noted as a factor in the Colgan Buffalo crash. NTSB showed records of the co-pilot being on her phone frequently during her rest period. No? You bet. Again, something not talked about(looking the other way)....until something happens.

This is why you aren't supposed to be in the front seat of a sleeper when off duty. Behind the curtain.....sleeping/resting.

Cut and dried? Pretty much. Message is clear.

 

[104Feeder]

Ok.

These coworkers....are they bound by hours of service?

Why? Well, when do they "manage" their employees? If you spend one second "working" during your reset period....you are in violation. No? You bet. Please don't say he does nothing for his business. Who dealt with the wrecker folks and all that.....insurance claims? Scheduling maintenance?

Say, why don't you go sleepers? You crave the shiny wheel lifestyle.....and at UPS it pays $150k. Never lifting a finger except driving.

And your friends who have these side businesses.....that will all come out in discovery in an accident investigation. Remember, this is Federal stuff. DOT/NTSB.

Why? We had a fatality in our group. He was infamous for having a "family" business. Wife ran it. But he openly talked about working there. He rear ended another semi early in the morning(over-night). Killing himself. Fatigue? See?

The NTSB does causality/contributing factors analysis....including fatigue factors.

Again, I will cite the Walmart crash of a few years ago. Killed a bus full of students(a few). Running falsified logs and all the rest of what that takes.....Sued? Oh yes.

I'm being generous, but you have a 0.002% of any fatal accident involving a commercial vehicle being investigated by the NTSB. To marginally increase those odds you would want to crash into a school bus, motorcoach, passenger or freight train, autonomous vehicle, or plow into a dozen motorcycles, bicyclists, or pedestrians. To maximize your odds you could pick any two of the aforementioned subgroups to crash into while also involving a commercial airliner.

 

[quad decade guy]

I'm being generous, but you have a 0.002% of any fatal accident involving a commercial vehicle being investigated by the NTSB. To marginally increase those odds you would want to crash into a school bus, motorcoach, passenger or freight train, autonomous vehicle, or plow into a dozen motorcycles, bicyclists, or pedestrians. To maximize your odds you could pick any two of the aforementioned subgroups to crash into while also involving a commercial airliner.

K.

Ask the Walmart guy......about odds...

BTW, do you have a point?

Are you saying.....go for it? You have a slim chance of being caught .....until something happens?

We had a guy get "caught" lying on his DOT physical app. Mechanic by the way. Fired...never came back. And he doesn't even have a "driving job". He was taking disqualifying meds.....see......that's how it starts.

We have a guy gone right now. Hit a parked breakdown vehicle....on the Interstate. But he checked most of the boxes for termination.....that stick. He's been gone for a month so far. Circle of Honor 35 year guy.....Let's ask him about odds....

You guys are so cavalier. I've always tried to minimize risks and maximize my ability to have a long and profitable career. I'd say I'm successful so far.

The news is sprinkled with accidents. Airplane crashes. Bad decisions. Disregarding regulations. Bad advice. Ignoring good advice. Taking chances-a lot of times out of pure laziness/stupidity.

Go for it.