bernie sanders for prez pushing socialist worker cooperatives

[rickyb]

As it relates to the idea of cooperatives and worker control industry, you might also read Benjamin Tucker. Along with the concept of mutualism.

cool! so this sounds like individualist anarchism and chomsky is in favor of collectives? im by no means an intellectual lol.

i hear lots of talk of building structures within the current system, and also overthrowing the current system. like chris hedges and paul jay were just talking about it in their wages of rebellion 3 part discussion.

its too bad bernie sanders doesnt critique the military industrial complex, i had no idea until a few weeks ago. hedges said 2 things: it would be a miracle if he became prez, and that he wont vote for him because of his support of israel massacre of Palestinians.

 

[wkmac]

Hedges critique of Sanders is spot on.

 

[rickyb]

Hedges critique of Sanders is spot on.

hes getting a tv show. i didnt think he would do it because of his love of a print based society.

i really like chris now because i always relate it to the matrix trilogy especially revolutions. i look forward to reading his latest book

 

[rickyb]

As it relates to the idea of cooperatives and worker control industry, you might also read Benjamin Tucker. Along with the concept of mutualism.

chomsky responds to market anarchism and also mentions tariffs which tucker brought up.

on a side note, i heard ralph nader say the same thing that chomsky does about the economy depending largely on the state sector like pharma, tech, etc.

 

[rickyb]

Hedges critique of Sanders is spot on.

well he did vote against iraq and the patriot act so u have that at least

 

[wkmac]

And if we going to discuss helping the poor, lets talk about Zoning Out The Poor.

 

[wkmac]

Bernie Sanders: Savior or Seducer of the Anti-War Left?

 

[Sportello]

Bernie Sanders: Savior or Seducer of the Anti-War Left?

Good article, and well worth the short read. Bernie seems pragmatic from my viewpoint. I'd vote for him, gladly.

 

[wkmac]

The Wheels Fell Off the Bernie Sanders Bandwagon

 

[rickyb]

The Wheels Fell Off the Bernie Sanders Bandwagon

what do you gather about trump?

 

[wkmac]

what do you gather about trump?

In some sense about the same as Bernie Sanders on the other side albeit Sanders is a bit more dignified. Both act as a kind of gate keeper. But Trump wants something. He has a price and once that price is met, he will disappear like a fart in the wind. Bernie does too but my guess is Bernie's costs less.

Other than that, Trump is much like the center ring at Ringling Bros. when the iconic clown car drives out to the center ring and we watch, transfixed in amazement at just how much comes out but at some point the car empties and the show must go on.

So out come the acrobats and the high wire acts and we forget all about the clown car. Ladies and Gentlemen, children of all ages, please now direct your attention.................Trump will become yesterday's news and both parties will hand pick who they want and neither will come from a clown car.

As to the bigger issue, Hedges is right in that some measure of mass rebellion and revolt is going to be needed in order to turn this ship from its present course. The 2 party state fears any threat of mass voter exodus because inside that construct the outcomes are controlled regardless who wins. Begin to break that and you might force the beast to show its teeth and then a whole lot more people see it and like a snow ball rolling down hill, the growth begins to grow beyond control.

Hedges interview with Paul Jay discussing Thomas Paine IMO was so timely and so dead on.


"Men must have the right of choice, even to choose wrong, if he shall ever learn to choose right." ~ Josiah Wedgwood

 

[wkmac]

If one is going to discuss worker cooperatives and mutualism, both a valid form of free market, then another growing concept is the sharing economy and the variations this represents that is gaining ground in some quarters. And in spite of the hurdles and walls placed in front of it to prevent its spread.

 

[rickyb]

i think even if bernie sanders became president, americans will still have a considerably lower standard of living than the developed EU countries.

the only thing that will make america the greatest country on earth would be a grassroots movement across the country comparable to the civil rights or what was goin on during the great depression. and it would include getting the military empire under control including the 50% of federal budget (1.5 trillion roughly) which goes to it every year.

theres a big expectation gap between america and EU countries, where you guys have little, and europeans have alot higher expectations.

if you used to be one of the greatest countries on earth, maybe it was just the luck of america having a labor shortage.

 

[wkmac]

Three Years Ago, These Chicago Workers Took Over a Window Factory. Today, They're Thriving

 

[moreluck]

did anyone see Larry David impersonating Sanders? Funny and spot on.

 

[moreluck]

 

[moreluck]

 

[moreluck]

Grand jury seeks testimony about Bernie Sanders' wife, $10M college loan: report

 

[Old Man Jingles]

 

[vantexan]

In some sense about the same as Bernie Sanders on the other side albeit Sanders is a bit more dignified. Both act as a kind of gate keeper. But Trump wants something. He has a price and once that price is met, he will disappear like a fart in the wind. Bernie does too but my guess is Bernie's costs less.

Other than that, Trump is much like the center ring at Ringling Bros. when the iconic clown car drives out to the center ring and we watch, transfixed in amazement at just how much comes out but at some point the car empties and the show must go on.

So out come the acrobats and the high wire acts and we forget all about the clown car. Ladies and Gentlemen, children of all ages, please now direct your attention.................Trump will become yesterday's news and both parties will hand pick who they want and neither will come from a clown car.

As to the bigger issue, Hedges is right in that some measure of mass rebellion and revolt is going to be needed in order to turn this ship from its present course. The 2 party state fears any threat of mass voter exodus because inside that construct the outcomes are controlled regardless who wins. Begin to break that and you might force the beast to show its teeth and then a whole lot more people see it and like a snow ball rolling down hill, the growth begins to grow beyond control.

Hedges interview with Paul Jay discussing Thomas Paine IMO was so timely and so dead on.


"Men must have the right of choice, even to choose wrong, if he shall ever learn to choose right." ~ Josiah Wedgwood

To hear you guys talk you'd think we're all Russian serfs. Imagine the U.S. with an aristocracy that demanded it's people turn over a large percentage of it's labor to them. People having to survive on what's left, living in shacks with no plumbing or electricity. And if they dared to raise a hand against the system the military would brutally crack down on dissenters. That's the reason communism took hold in Russia and spread everywhere a peasant population subsisted to support elites living off of them like ticks. Ultimately communism failed because the new elite became no better than the old when they realized their policies didn't work but they wanted to retain power and the perks that came with it. So either people revolted again or were given much more freedom to incorporate capitalism to prevent complete loss of power. Meanwhile in our corner of the world socialists would have us believe that the average man on the street is suffering like Russian serfs or Nicaraguan peasants and must revolt. What is wrong with our system isn't our ability to feed, clothe, and house ourselves. It's putting the love of money above all else and characterizing lives as meaningless and worthless the less they have of it. And telling the lie that our lives will be so much better if we revolt against those who have more rather than working towards having more by improving our skills. And judging by how many supported Bernie Sanders the lies have taken root in our younger generations. If they can't have what others have through intellect and hard work then they want to tear it down until no one has more than they. Meanwhile they play their Xbox on their giant screen tv's while glancing at their handheld super computers also known as phones, lamenting they're no better off than Russian serfs.