Christians ?

[Sammie]

What does this mean? Sorry if I sound naive on this.... I understand if someone accepts Christ... I can also understand someone who says "there is no God"... but it's the in between that befuddles me sometimes. Where does the soul come from if not God; or any being for that matter? And why would that hold true if not from a creator? You said you believe in our "souls". Where does this come from in you experiences?

Tourist,

We obviously won't know till we get there. It could very well be that God and Jesus are everything we've been told. I never said they weren't. But the scriptures themselves are confusing to me. And it's hard to believe that the same God who allows absolutely terrible things to happen (won't go into all of that) would let little old me burn in hell for daring to question him. I don't kill or steal or hurt people, I just use the deductive reasoning we've all been given to make sense of it all. If I lean towards thinking that there may be other possibilities of "higher powers", that I believe in another sphere, and that we should give this our best shot while we're here, then so be it. No one in this life knows where the soul originates or where it goes. But I find nothing wrong with having more than one idea about it.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Tourist,

We obviously won't know till we get there. It could very well be that God and Jesus are everything we've been told. I never said they weren't. But the scriptures themselves are confusing to me. And it's hard to believe that the same God who allows absolutely terrible things to happen (won't go into all of that) would let little old me burn in hell for daring to question him. I don't kill or steal or hurt people, I just use the deductive reasoning we've all been given to make sense of it all. If I lean towards thinking that there may be other possibilities of "higher powers", that I believe in another sphere, and that we should give this our best shot while we're here, then so be it. No one in this life knows where the soul originates or where it goes. But I find nothing wrong with having more than one idea about it.

I think what you're trying to say, is that you choose to use your free will. Am I right?

 

[DS]

since you dont believe in heaven or hell, where does this "feeling" come from about our souls?

Tourists,I thought I'd share my thoughts on this.
God was invented by man as a way for us mortals to coexist with each other.I often wonder about the "God" that was around before man was,or even before the universe was.I believe in the truth.There is only one,and I try to live it the way it is before I add my opinion to it.Its a "feeling" that starts in the abdomen and takes the form of anxiousness as you search for your true thoughts as you go through each day.To be honest,its next to impossible to get through your day without being at some point,untrue to the nothingness that makes a baby smile.Call it God or call it the truth,its all really about being one with our creator.There is no heaven or hell,except the one you create with your beliefs in the short time you are here.I've also thought that our souls become the essence of the way things really are and always have been when we die.To me, religion is how you percieve the truth,and how you react to it. jmho

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Tourists,I thought I'd share my thoughts on this.
God was invented by man as a way for us mortals to coexist with each other.I often wonder about the "God" that was around before man was,or even before the universe was.I believe in the truth.There is only one,and I try to live it the way it is before I add my opinion to it.Its a "feeling" that starts in the abdomen and takes the form of anxiousness as you search for your true thoughts as you go through each day.To be honest,its next to impossible to get through your day without being at some point,untrue to the nothingness that makes a baby smile.Call it God or call it the truth,its all really about being one with our creator.There is no heaven or hell,except the one you create with your beliefs in the short time you are here.I've also thought that our souls become the essence of the way things really are and always have been when we die.To me, religion is how you percieve the truth,and how you react to it. jmho

I'm not touching that, with a 10' bible

 

[tourists24]

Tourists,I thought I'd share my thoughts on this.
God was invented by man as a way for us mortals to coexist with each other.I often wonder about the "God" that was around before man was,or even before the universe was.I believe in the truth.There is only one,and I try to live it the way it is before I add my opinion to it.Its a "feeling" that starts in the abdomen and takes the form of anxiousness as you search for your true thoughts as you go through each day.To be honest,its next to impossible to get through your day without being at some point,untrue to the nothingness that makes a baby smile.Call it God or call it the truth,its all really about being one with our creator.There is no heaven or hell,except the one you create with your beliefs in the short time you are here.I've also thought that our souls become the essence of the way things really are and always have been when we die.To me, religion is how you percieve the truth,and how you react to it. jmho

Obviously I disagree with a lot of this, but I have to admit you have obviously thought through this ... I dont believe God is manmade; He just is. The only way we are ever going to know where He came from will be when He is asked.

But this is all because I do believe and you do not... no big problems there. Just a matter of choice and faith.

What I am curious of though is about the "soul". The soul, although not visible, is something very real to a lot of believers as well as non believers. If not from God (which obviously I believe), where can it come from? and why? How can there actually be a soul? And if you dont believe in heaven and hell, what happens when you die? what are a non believers expectations? How did we get here? Evolution? this is faith based also....
A lot of stuff huh?

 

[Sammie]

I think what you're trying to say, is that you choose to use your free will. Am I right?

DS summed it up quite well. But am I exercising free will in this instance?
I have no idea. It's not that death is controllable. In life you can exercise free will and its many choices to command your fate (which simply offers you an excuse) and change it's outcome, opposed to leaving it all to fate, which simply lands us smack dab into a situation.

I don't think I have a bevy of options about what's going to happen to me on the other side of the curtain, but I guess yes, I'm using my free will in surmising what will take place in the great beyond.

 

[Sammie]

What I am curious of though is about the "soul". The soul, although not visible, is something very real to a lot of believers as well as non believers. If not from God (which obviously I believe), where can it come from? and why? How can there actually be a soul? And if you dont believe in heaven and hell, what happens when you die? what are a non believers expectations? How did we get here? Evolution? this is faith based also....
A lot of stuff huh?

Good question, Tourist.

What is the difference between soul and flesh, mind and body, spirit and body and personality? Do they ever separate, or do they always stay together?

Christianity believes that God created Universe, Adam and Eve. Science believes we evolved from pollywogs to apes to humans. Metaphysics ties both theories together.

(What are we getting ourselves into here? )

 

[DS]

I did not write this ,but I believe it.
"All I'm hoping for is to rid myself of at least some of my self-delusions, so that I can see myself a little more as I really am, as opposed to who I think I am, and then be able to respond to life accordingly. I believe that this is all that's expected of me by anyone who loves me, and I believe that even this is difficult enough to do, so as to present me with a life-long challenge".
As far as the soul goes,I think although every living thing may be different in our perceptions in our journey through life,we all end up in the collective in our passing.We become part of the greatness that created us .We become the truth that we have been seeking since birth.

 

[UPSNewbie]

My lack of belief is simply nothing. I'm apathetic towards it. I've thought about it and come to my conclusion that people have the right to believe what they want, and should do so. I however just don't see the need in convincing myself to believe in something I can't see.

 

[Jones]

One of the more intriguing ideas I have heard is that the collective consciousness of all living things is part of the process of the universe becoming aware of itself. There's obviously no way to prove or disprove that though. I've felt for some time now that nothing of my sense of self will survive my passing, and that life in the abstract serves no higher purpose than to be self aware. In literature the lines that have always stuck with me are Meursault's thoughts on the night before his execution, when he accepts his fate and opens himself to the gentle indifference of the world.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Along those lines I have theorized that since nothing actually is destroyed as much as it is transformed, maybe the same could be said of conscienceness.

 

[tourists24]

I think this has a little relevance to our conversation. If you have no interest in Christianity, it may mean little; but still food for thought.

The particular sermon I want you to watch is "Is the Bible Really True?".

 

[Sammie]

What I am curious of though is about the "soul". The soul, although not visible, is something very real to a lot of believers as well as non believers. If not from God (which obviously I believe), where can it come from? and why? How can there actually be a soul? And if you dont believe in heaven and hell, what happens when you die? what are a non believers expectations? How did we get here? Evolution? this is faith based also....
A lot of stuff huh?

Correct me if I'm wrong Tourist, but I think you stand hard and fast about
believers and non believers. There's either doubt-free faith or those who feel there's no such thing as absolute certainty. This is where you and I may differ. Can I have doubts and still consider myself a Christian? Of course I can.

About the video you wanted us to watch, I didn't listen to all of it but
I believe I get it's drift. The minister mentions the gospel writers and who
wrote what. In regards to the Bible, most of the world couldn't read or write two thousand years ago. History was recorded thru oral tradition. In the ancient times of Jesus, only the nobility, scholars and priests knew how to read and write. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, Peter and James highly educated? And how many of them actually knew Jesus, who didn't associate with the upper echelon. I've read that there could have been 20 - 30 generations between the actual time of Christ and when the oral traditions began to be written. A lot can be lost in translation during that time so that's why I take the Bible with a grain of salt.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Correct me if I'm wrong Tourist, but I think you stand hard and fast about
believers and non believers. There's either doubt-free faith or those who feel there's no such thing as absolute certainty. This is where you and I may differ. Can I have doubts and still consider myself a Christian? Of course I can.

About the video you wanted us to watch, I didn't listen to all of it but
I believe I get it's drift. The minister mentions the gospel writers and who
wrote what. In regards to the Bible, most of the world couldn't read or write two thousand years ago. History was recorded thru oral tradition. In the ancient times of Jesus, only the nobility, scholars and priests knew how to read and write. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, Peter and James highly educated? And how many of them actually knew Jesus, who didn't associate with the upper echelon. I've read that there could have been 20 - 30 generations between the actual time of Christ and when the oral traditions began to be written. A lot can be lost in translation during that time so that's why I take the Bible with a grain of salt.

When you say you take the bible with a grain of salt, are you saying that you've read it, and then took it with a grain of salt? Or are you saying, that since you're skeptical, you haven't really read it?

 

[tourists24]

Correct me if I'm wrong Tourist, but I think you stand hard and fast about
believers and non believers. There's either doubt-free faith or those who feel there's no such thing as absolute certainty. This is where you and I may differ. Can I have doubts and still consider myself a Christian? Of course I can.

You are right on target about being doubt free. I dont disagree that there are people who say they are Christian that are not; but for someone who is genuinely born again, there is no doubt. If you allow Jesus in, you know it.

In regards to the Bible, most of the world couldn't read or write two thousand years ago. History was recorded thru oral tradition. In the ancient times of Jesus, only the nobility, scholars and priests knew how to read and write. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, Peter and James highly educated?

I would say since the Bible is the word of God himself inspired through others, Id say they were divinely educated enough. The message remains the same through time.

And how many of them actually knew Jesus, who didn't associate with the upper echelon. I've read that there could have been 20 - 30 generations between the actual time of Christ and when the oral traditions began to be written. A lot can be lost in translation during that time so that's why I take the Bible with a grain of salt.

You may have to go back to old texts sometimes to get literal interpretations, but the message is the same through time.

 

[Sammie]

When you say you take the bible with a grain of salt, are you saying that you've read it, and then took it with a grain of salt? Or are you saying, that since you're skeptical, you haven't really read it?

The skeptical part began when I was a kid and would sit thru a certain denomination whose ministers declared fire and brimstone on other branches of Christianity other than their own. And as an adult there were other instances but I'll list one; when I began going to church on my own and was chastised more than once for not "tithing" enough.

What I know of the Bible really started when a high school friend returned from being held captive in Nam. He was a wreck and I spent a lot of time with him. He turned to religion and became a Methodist minister. We argued clear back then about our different views regarding religion and that included a fair amount of Bible time. He has not turned away from faith but now owns a landscaping company.

My husbands best friend received a masters degree from the Iliff School of Theology here in Denver. But for various reasons, he never used that education. He and I don't see eye to eye on religion, but we've had countless discussions about it. It's a fascinating topic.

My oldest grandchild's dad lives about a mile away from us and I see him
fairly often. He's turned his life around and become very religious, which
is great for him. For the past 15 years he's has shown me countless Bible passages while trying to convince me that it's the real deal.

So no, I haven't read it from cover to cover, but I've discussed it
for a lot of years with a lot of people and with the little dab I think I
know about history, that's my conclusion.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

The skeptical part began when I was a kid and would sit thru a certain denomination whose ministers declared fire and brimstone on other branches of Christianity other than their own. And as an adult there were other instances but I'll list one; when I began going to church on my own and was chastised more than once for not "tithing" enough.

What I know of the Bible really started when a high school friend returned from being held captive in Nam. He was a wreck and I spent a lot of time with him. He turned to religion and became a Methodist minister. We argued clear back then about our different views regarding religion and that included a fair amount of Bible time. He has not turned away from faith but now owns a landscaping company.

My husbands best friend received a masters degree from the Iliff School of Theology here in Denver. But for various reasons, he never used that education. He and I don't see eye to eye on religion, but we've had countless discussions about it. It's a fascinating topic.

My oldest grandchild's dad lives about a mile away from us and I see him
fairly often. He's turned his life around and become very religious, which
is great for him. For the past 15 years he's has shown me countless Bible passages while trying to convince me that it's the real deal.

So no, I haven't read it from cover to cover, but I've discussed it
for a lot of years with a lot of people and with the little dab I think I
know about history, that's my conclusion.

Sorry for the bad experiences. JMHO, but I think that it would be the job of the "Christian" to tell you about "Christianity", and it would be God's job, to convince you that He is real, afterall, you can lead a horse to water, and in no way am I comparing you to a horse, Sammie.