Churches Judging Joel Osteen "On Topic Only"

[Frankie's Friend]

Within the first 5 minutes he misquotes scripture twice, while failing to give chapter and verse. This entire sermon is simply about having a better life through positive speaking, which has no scriptural basis. He has a spinning golden globe behind him, (no cross to be seen anywhere) which is a clear symbol about what he really stands for. Twice more he misquotes scripture between minutes 10 and 20. Right around minute 24 he takes a page from Stuart Smalley with positive affirmation.

His quote about being snared by your words comes from Proverbs 6. It is about making a foolish promise, and how to deliver yourself from it. It's not about tripping yourself up with negative words. This is only one sermon, most of what else I've seen is merely self-help non-sense masquerading as biblical teaching. He cherry picks pieces of verses to lend credence to his teaching, but he utterly misses the point of the scriptures he references.

By the way, the book of Job was written in the style of fictional literature of the time. But you keep trying to make it sound like I'm saying something I am not, i.e. a straw man argument. I am not saying it is bad or sinful to be rich. The rich man who was blameless asked Jesus what else he was missing. Jesus told him to sell all his possessions and follow him. The rich man walked away, saddened by the response. Jesus did that to illustrate that none of us are perfect, like him, and that our salvation is only possible with God, not with man. Don't know how much more clearly I can spell it out.

The story about the rich young man didnt tell me anything about not being perfect like Jesus.

It spoke to me about loving riches more than loving Jesus. The dude was rich. He didnt own riches. The material things of this world owned him and Jesus knew it.

The rich young man asked what else he had to do to be justified in God's sight and Jesus exposed that he coveted material things over spiritual things...the temporary things of this world trumped obeying God.

Jesus was more interested in personal relationships than just preaching to crowds. Why did tough, worldly men give up every material possession to follow (have a relationship) with Jesus?

Because their hearts were right even though they werent perfect in actions.

The Bible states "let not many of you be teachers" because those that teach will be held more accountable.

I'll watch your clip later today but regardless of anyone else's opinion Joel will be judged for what his motives were in his position. We can do a lot of dumb things with a right heart.

If you see your brother sin you are supposed to go to him and address the situation in a spirit of humility. Have you written Joel or tried to contact him in any way to speak your convictions?

If not, these postings are just reduced to the level of slander and that isnt good for anyone called by the Name of Christ.

Biting and devouring each other is just playing into Satan's plan to discredit the power of God.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

The Bible states "let not many of you be teachers" because those that teach will be held more accountable.

Biting and devouring each other is just playing into Satan's plan to discredit the power of God.

And @zubenelgenubi is a teacher by his words.
I am afraid Satan has him under his control.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

The story about the rich young man didnt tell me anything about not being perfect like Jesus.

It spoke to me about loving riches more than loving Jesus. The dude was rich. He didnt own riches. The material things of this world owned him and Jesus knew it.

The rich young man asked what else he had to do to be justified in God's sight and Jesus exposed that he coveted material things over spiritual things...the temporary things of this world trumped obeying God.

Jesus was more interested in personal relationships than just preaching to crowds. Why did tough, worldly men give up every material possession to follow (have a relationship) with Jesus?

Because their hearts were right even though they werent perfect in actions.

The Bible states "let not many of you be teachers" because those that teach will be held more accountable.

I'll watch your clip later today but regardless of anyone else's opinion Joel will be judged for what his motives were in his position. We can do a lot of dumb things with a right heart.

If you see your brother sin you are supposed to go to him and address the situation in a spirit of humility. Have you written Joel or tried to contact him in any way to speak your convictions?

If not, these postings are just reduced to the level of slander and that isnt good for anyone called by the Name of Christ.

Biting and devouring each other is just playing into Satan's plan to discredit the power of God.

Why do you feel so strongly the need to defend him? You asked me to provide evidence for what I claimed about him, I did that, and now it's slander? His teachings are not the teachings of Christ. That makes him a false teacher. I believe in an all powerful God, but I will not reduce him to a genie in a bottle, there only to grant our every wish and desire. It's funny, because the joke he tells at the beginning of that message involves God granting a wish. In the original version of the joke, it's a genie. Subconsciously he reveals his true beliefs about God.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

And @zubenelgenubi is a teacher by his words.
I am afraid Satan has him under his control.

So it's cool to judge me, but not cool for me to point out the false teachings of Joel Osteen? Believe what you will, I've simply answered questions posed to me, and I'm the villain. Smh.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

The story about the rich young man didnt tell me anything about not being perfect like Jesus.

It spoke to me about loving riches more than loving Jesus. The dude was rich. He didnt own riches. The material things of this world owned him and Jesus knew it.


The rich young man asked what else he had to do to be justified in God's sight and Jesus exposed that he coveted material things over spiritual things...the temporary things of this world trumped obeying God.

Jesus told him to keep all the commands, and he said that he did, Jesus did not correct him on that. Jesus releaved that the young rich man's heart truly was in the wrong place, but Jesus explained that with God, even he could be saved. If you don't believe that, then it's pointless to continue this conversation.

Jesus was more interested in personal relationships than just preaching to crowds. Why did tough, worldly men give up every material possession to follow (have a relationship) with Jesus?

Because their hearts were right even though they werent perfect in actions.

To be fair, many of the disciples didn't have much in the way of material possessions to walk away from. And as they followed him, some of their hearts were in the wrong place. Some believed he was a political messiah, there to free them from the Roman occupation, and they hoped to have high positions within his kingdom. Judas believed he was protecting Jesus by betraying him to the Jewish leaders. But, with God, they could all be redeemed.

The Bible states "let not many of you be teachers" because those that teach will be held more accountable.

Yet Jesus says in Matthew 23:8 "But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters."

So who is right? James, or Jesus?

If you see your brother sin you are supposed to go to him and address the situation in a spirit of humility. Have you written Joel or tried to contact him in any way to speak your convictions?

I am responsible for the salvation of a false teacher? I'm pretty sure only God can handle something like that, but thanks for your faith in me. I'll tell you what, though, next time I'm in Houston I'll stop by and give it my best shot. Plenty of pastors and theologians have pointed out the falsehood of his teachings, and their words have fallen on deaf ears.

By your logic no one could ever be a false teacher, because we are all imperfect, and none of us are to judge the other. Yet Jesus commands us to watch out for false teachers, so who is right? You, or Jesus?

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Jesus told him to keep all the commands, and he said that he did, Jesus did not correct him on that. Jesus releaved that the young rich man's heart truly was in the wrong place, but Jesus explained that with God, even he could be saved. If you don't believe that, then it's pointless to continue this conversation.



To be fair, many of the disciples didn't have much in the way of material possessions to walk away from. And as they followed him, some of their hearts were in the wrong place. Some believed he was a political messiah, there to free them from the Roman occupation, and they hoped to have high positions within his kingdom. Judas believed he was protecting Jesus by betraying him to the Jewish leaders. But, with God, they could all be redeemed.


Yet Jesus says in Matthew 23:8 "But none of you should be called a teacher. You have only one teacher, and all of you are like brothers and sisters."

So who is right? James, or Jesus?



I am responsible for the salvation of a false teacher? I'm pretty sure only God can handle something like that, but thanks for your faith in me. I'll tell you what, though, next time I'm in Houston I'll stop by and give it my best shot. Plenty of pastors and theologians have pointed out the falsehood of his teachings, and their words have fallen on deaf ears.

By your logic no one could ever be a false teacher, because we are all imperfect, and none of us are to judge the other. Yet Jesus commands us to watch out for false teachers, so who is right? You, or Jesus?

I find it easy to recognize the people with Jesus in their heart ... they are very inclusive and desire to help others.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I find it easy to recognize the people with Jesus in their heart ... they are very inclusive and desire to help others.

Is that not judging? I'm not saying Joel isn't saved, or that he can't be. I am attacking his teachings, backing my claims up with the teachings of Jesus. False teaching doesn't help or truly comfort anyone, it just pulls the wool over their eyes.

We must all be on guard against false teaching. Jesus said "if you love me you will keep my commands". He commanded us to beware of false teachers. How can we do that if we refuse to compare a person's teachings against those of Jesus' because it's "judgmental". It is not judgmental, it is discernment, there is a difference.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Is that not judging? I'm not saying Joel isn't saved, or that he can't be. I am attacking his teachings, backing my claims up with the teachings of Jesus. False teaching doesn't help or truly comfort anyone, it just pulls the wool over their eyes.

We must all be on guard against false teaching. Jesus said "if you love me you will keep my commands". He commanded us to beware of false teachers. How can we do that if we refuse to compare a person's teachings against those of Jesus' because it's "judgmental". It is not judgmental, it is discernment, there is a difference.

Jesus included people.
The Pharisees excluded people.

 

[bbsam]

Same God.

Let's look at the New Testament to make you feel better. These are just some of the people were wealthy and gave to support Jesus's ministry and weren't rebuked by Jesus for having money:
View attachment 235488 View attachment 235489
These are a few. There's no doubt that many people donated to help care for the disciples and Jesus needs. I cant find anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus asked to take up an offering for his ministry.

Since he knew the heart and idolatry of people he told the young rich ruler to give his wealth to the poor and come follow him knowing the conviction and battle they'd face giving up their wealth because it was what they trusted in for their stability, security, and power.

God wants his believers to prosper and be in good health but you cant serve two masters. If you trust in riches more than trusting God for your future it is written that it is hard to get into heaven.

Timothy 6:10 spells it out pretty plainly if you like New Testament.

Finally, remember the soldiers at the foot of the cross were gambling for the spoils of the men dying above them.

They valued Jesus's clothing because is was unusually well made. They never said anything about a Rolex watch but Jesus was well dressed.

You can own money. Money should never own you.

You speak of “exceptions to the rule”.

Pharisees, Sadducees, the Temple leaders were often at Christ’s rebuke.

Is Osteen’s temple a “house of prayer” or a “den of thieves”? I don’t know. But I have known a lot of very good pastors and none of them have become so ridiculously rich off the Word of God. It may mean nothing, but after the Falwell, the Bakers and the rest of the mega rich televangelists, I’m more skeptical than you appear to be.

 

[bbsam]

Jesus included people.
The Pharisees excluded people.

Maybe if I saw Joel hanging out at a food pantry or drug rehab center with no TV cameras around, I’d believe.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Maybe if I saw Joel hanging out at a food pantry or drug rehab center with no TV cameras around, I’d believe.

I don't seem to have anywhere near the stereotyping tendencies that you have.

 

[Integrity]

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Not saying he is irredeemable, but he is leading people away from the Truth with his false teachings. It is not up to me to judge his heart, but I can certainly use my discernment in recognizing someone who is teaching incorrectly, and profiting off of doing so.

I disagree.

I don't believe Joel Osteen is a false teacher.

Maybe makes mistakes sometimes but I haven't met a Pastor that doesn't.

 

[Integrity]

You're mixing up parables, and seem to be ignoring that I already acknowledged several times that being wealthy in and of itself is not wrong or sinful. Joel Osteen openly preaches the prosperity gospel, and the prosperity gospel does not line up with the teachings of Jesus. He tells his followers that God will make them rich and famous if they just pray for it, but proverbs says better the poor who's walk is blameless than the rich whose ways are perverse.

Jesus commands us to watch out for false prophets, and you can tell them by their teaching. It's not about judging another person, but anyone can claim to be a christian, and we are just to follow them because of that claim? No, we are to seek Him, and when we do we will know who teaches lies and will not be lead astray.

I have never heard him preach that God will make someone rich and famous if they pray for it.

If he ever does it can't be much because I have missed it.

You might just be taking some of the things he says out of context because of your preconceived judgement.

 

[Integrity]

You feel free to follow Joel. I will follow Jesus.

I follow God through Jesus Christ be the power of the Holy Spirit.

I also like Joel.

I appreciate his ability to reach those who may not hear the Good News in any other manner but his encouraging positive messages.

 

[Integrity]

The story about the rich young man didnt tell me anything about not being perfect like Jesus.

It spoke to me about loving riches more than loving Jesus. The dude was rich. He didnt own riches. The material things of this world owned him and Jesus knew it.

The rich young man asked what else he had to do to be justified in God's sight and Jesus exposed that he coveted material things over spiritual things...the temporary things of this world trumped obeying God.

Jesus was more interested in personal relationships than just preaching to crowds. Why did tough, worldly men give up every material possession to follow (have a relationship) with Jesus?

Because their hearts were right even though they werent perfect in actions.

The Bible states "let not many of you be teachers" because those that teach will be held more accountable.

I'll watch your clip later today but regardless of anyone else's opinion Joel will be judged for what his motives were in his position. We can do a lot of dumb things with a right heart.

If you see your brother sin you are supposed to go to him and address the situation in a spirit of humility. Have you written Joel or tried to contact him in any way to speak your convictions?

If not, these postings are just reduced to the level of slander and that isnt good for anyone called by the Name of Christ.

Biting and devouring each other is just playing into Satan's plan to discredit the power of God.

Nice post.

Well done.

 

[Integrity]

Why do you feel so strongly the need to defend him? You asked me to provide evidence for what I claimed about him, I did that, and now it's slander? His teachings are not the teachings of Christ. That makes him a false teacher. I believe in an all powerful God, but I will not reduce him to a genie in a bottle, there only to grant our every wish and desire. It's funny, because the joke he tells at the beginning of that message involves God granting a wish. In the original version of the joke, it's a genie. Subconsciously he reveals his true beliefs about God.

If a Pastor that makes mistakes in handling Scripture from the pulpit is a False Teacher then every Pastor I have ever heard is one.

 

[Integrity]

Is that not judging? I'm not saying Joel isn't saved, or that he can't be. I am attacking his teachings, backing my claims up with the teachings of Jesus. False teaching doesn't help or truly comfort anyone, it just pulls the wool over their eyes.

We must all be on guard against false teaching. Jesus said "if you love me you will keep my commands". He commanded us to beware of false teachers. How can we do that if we refuse to compare a person's teachings against those of Jesus' because it's "judgmental". It is not judgmental, it is discernment, there is a difference.

You have a right to view him as you wish.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

You speak of “exceptions to the rule”.

Pharisees, Sadducees, the Temple leaders were often at Christ’s rebuke.

Is Osteen’s temple a “house of prayer” or a “den of thieves”? I don’t know. But I have known a lot of very good pastors and none of them have become so ridiculously rich off the Word of God. It may mean nothing, but after the Falwell, the Bakers and the rest of the mega rich televangelists, I’m more skeptical than you appear to be.

I'm not ignorant of what wealth and fame can do to people. I just prefer not to make an unjust charge against someone who claims the name of Christ.

Remember the story Jesus told about the wheat and the weeds. God will ultimately judge the sheep, goats, and the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Imo the last group in the last sentence will get the harshest punishment.

Maybe if I saw Joel hanging out at a food pantry or drug rehab center with no TV cameras around, I’d believe.

Maybe you havent seen him hanging out at the homeless shelter and food pantry because there weren't any cameras.

 

[bbsam]

I don't seem to have anywhere near the stereotyping tendencies that you have.

Sure you do.

 

[bbsam]

I'm not ignorant of what wealth and fame can do to people. I just prefer not to make an unjust charge against someone who claims the name of Christ.

Remember the story Jesus told about the wheat and the weeds. God will ultimately judge the sheep, goats, and the wolves in sheep's clothing.
Imo the last group in the last sentence will get the harshest punishment.

Maybe you havent seen him hanging out at the homeless shelter and food pantry because there weren't any cameras.

Well I have been to them in Houston. Maybe I was there on an off day.