class action lawsuit against UPS
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gandydancer
Well-Known Member
Wrong. I didn't say the manager wouldn't qualify me. When they were preparing to close down the San Francisco hub in '89 or '90 I shifted to preload and had only worked as a preloader (on a line I selected because it was moving to South San Francisco) for a couple days when the manager asked me to take over belt splitting to replace an individual who had been injured. E* L**** assured me I would still get my $1 bump if I agreed then fobbed me off with excuses for months until the line I was on moved to the new building. I couldn't believe this well paid
er in a suit managing maybe 100 individuals would lie to me face to face week after week to chisel me out of a few pennies and I was too wet behind the ears (XMas '88 hire) to go to the union. But that was a long time ago.Dunno where you saw me agreeing that I'd taken money I hadn't earned. Quote me.
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sendagain
Well-Known Member
I went through my old paystubs to see the approximate number of days I worked over ten hours, finding that the sum coming my way is close to accurate. The bottom line is that the company has made the decision to pay this sum to the drivers. Because of this decision, any driver not accepting the ruling is truly giving the money to an undeserving party.
tieguy
Banned
Wrong. I didn't say the manager wouldn't qualify me. When they were preparing to close down the San Francisco hub in '89 or '90 I shifted to preload and had only worked as a preloader (on a line I selected because it was moving to South San Francisco) for a couple days when the manager asked me to take over belt splitting to replace an individual who had been injured. E* L**** assured me I would still get my $1 bump if I agreed then fobbed me off with excuses for months until the line I was on moved to the new building. I couldn't believe this well paid
Dunno where you saw me agreeing that I'd taken money I hadn't earned. Quote me.
I don't believe you have been able to demonstrate that you actually were compensated for lost meals. So Instead you used the experience with the preload waaaaaay back in 1989 to justify the taking of money from the lunch lawsuit. Mutual exploitation is the term you used to justify taking the lunch money you did not earn. Personally I am grateful that you have been so honest on this issue. The other posters pretend to get all huffy over the concept they took money they did not deserve while you seem quite proud of it. Your type of honesty is good for this discussion. All of the other posters here have been able to say they believe they deserve the money just not through missed lunchs. You on the other hand not only admitted to it but were able to come up with the phrase mutual exploitation to justify your theft.
You didn't answer my other point. Since you feel you are in a competition with UPS through mutual exploitation to steal as much as you can from UPS, how is the scorecard looking? Have you stolen more from them or do you feel UPS is still ahead?
tieguy
Banned
According to another poster the beneficiary of any unclaimed monies would be a charity. Ultimately I believe the issue still is whether you personally were denied meals that you wanted. If not then you have the opportunity to opt out and help your community in doing so. You also have the opportunity to tell your community that you think the class action system in place stinks and that californias ant-business climate sucks. Or you can take your money and use it to pay for your over priced gas and over priced goods confident you will somehow end up ahead in the long run. My guess you all take the money because greed always wins in the end.
gandydancer
Well-Known Member
I thought you said you'd learned to be careful with words like that. Did you go off your meds?
I'm pretty sure I've noted earlier in this thread several times that I'm getting no money in this lawsuit. The original complaint (it's available in a thread on teamster . net) wasn't limited to drivers, but the settlement came out that way. I'll help you out here, though. I did get something like $11k when I took my 22.3 in 2000 (back pay to '98). And I've been paid for things like being cut out early in violation of my seniority. It that what you mean by ~"taking (stealing?) money I haven't earned"~?
sendagain
Well-Known Member
It was a law that was conveniently ignored or swept under the rug, everyone hoping the drivers would just want to go home. I had never even heard of this law until this lawsuit popped up.
upsgrunt
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I can't keep out of this any longer; the more I read the more my blood pressure goes up. First of all I am getting 0 money- I'm in Illinois. My beef is Tieguy classing all drivers as "thieves, crooks, and pervs." and assuming that everyone is stealing by taking C.O.D. money, office equipment, and time. Tie you keep wanting everyone to prove that they were denied those lunches; that they deserve that check and so far no one has.
Although you don't want people to "undermine your contributions to the company", lets talk about what you deserve and what you have earned. You claim that if you didn't deserve your bonus that you would not take it. Can you prove that you deserve those bonus's and stock options? What did you do to earn them? Would the company be any less successful if they didn't have your infinite wisdom and pompous attitude to guide us "crooks, thieves, and pervs."? You sure have a fine way of slandering and degrading the very workers who at least help you "earn" your bonus's and stock options.
On "stealing time"-- I notice that some of your posts are in the middle of the day. I hope that you are not on this forum during company time.
I'm new to this, but have read enough on this thread that I can stay silent no longer. I am an easy going guy who can get along with about anybody, but I am pretty sure I couldn't work for you tie. Your smug, degrading, holyier than thou attitude must be just great on your employees attitude. Your favorite quote must be "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Again sorry to anyone reading if this all sounds crass, but I feel like employees deserve and demand the same respect that managers do. Name calling, slandering, and character defamation of people; most or all whom you've never met is just wrong.
I just have one piece of advice for you tie- Be careful of the people who you step on on your way up the ladder; you just might see them on the way back down.
Although you don't want people to "undermine your contributions to the company", lets talk about what you deserve and what you have earned. You claim that if you didn't deserve your bonus that you would not take it. Can you prove that you deserve those bonus's and stock options? What did you do to earn them? Would the company be any less successful if they didn't have your infinite wisdom and pompous attitude to guide us "crooks, thieves, and pervs."? You sure have a fine way of slandering and degrading the very workers who at least help you "earn" your bonus's and stock options.
On "stealing time"-- I notice that some of your posts are in the middle of the day. I hope that you are not on this forum during company time.
I'm new to this, but have read enough on this thread that I can stay silent no longer. I am an easy going guy who can get along with about anybody, but I am pretty sure I couldn't work for you tie. Your smug, degrading, holyier than thou attitude must be just great on your employees attitude. Your favorite quote must be "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
Again sorry to anyone reading if this all sounds crass, but I feel like employees deserve and demand the same respect that managers do. Name calling, slandering, and character defamation of people; most or all whom you've never met is just wrong.
I just have one piece of advice for you tie- Be careful of the people who you step on on your way up the ladder; you just might see them on the way back down.
tieguy
Banned
You're right you don't have a horse in this race. I'm really trying to stay away from dialogue of this type because it really destroys the honest dialogue we have going. Its tough to get this kind of honesty going. The good thing is we are slowly migrating to a mutual understanding that very few if any drivers were hurt by the lunch issue but that all of them apprarently felt they deserved the money for whatever reason. May I suggest you skp this thread so your blood pressure is not adversly affected?
upsgrunt
Well-Known Member
Can you answer any of my questions? It seems the "honest dialogue" that you seem to be finding is just you putting words into everybody elses mouth, trying to push your opinions on them. Let's let you prove something for a while so don't have to assimilate with us "crooks, thieves, and perves." Can you prove you earned any bonus's?
Iconoclast
Well-Known Member
Tieguy-You're right you don't have a horse in this race. I'm really trying to stay away from dialogue of this type because it really destroys the honest dialogue we have going. Its tough to get this kind of honesty going. The good thing is we are slowly migrating to a mutual understanding that very few if any drivers were hurt by the lunch issue but that all of them apprarently felt they deserved the money for whatever reason. May I suggest you skp this thread so your blood pressure is not adversly affected?
Who is migrating to a position that very few drivers were hurt in this? Do you realize how insulting that is to your fellow employees?
This is not just limited to California or lunch breaks, there is a huge issue with coercion and management abuses in our company. Pick another initative, let's jump over to our side of the fence -management- and look at the United Way issue, How about the pressue there to contribute so UPS can make its annual number?
Have you ever tried to tell you management team- No thanks, I already have a favorite charity? I had to get HR involved when I first started beause I politely refused to contribute. My job was threatened because I would not contribute to the United Way. When HR stepped in my superiors were incredulous, not because I contacted HR, but because this is the way they had always managed-they literally didn't know that they were not allowed to threaten me to contribute to a charity.
Look at this forum, look at these threads, this is not Disneyland-morale at UPS is always an issue, you said yourself that you are argueing the process of class action, not whether or not abuses took place that caused class action-Now, you are shifting to a "mutual understanding that very few drivers, if any were hurt in by the lunch issue?"
Man, what a stretch.
You are talking about class action for this very same problem in 3-4 different states. This has affected millions of dollars of employees compensation.
The question still stands, as a management person who abuses an employees time, and I think we are all at a mutual understanding that this happens constantly, with respect to meal breaks-
How does one reconcile taking bonuses and the MIP which are merit based, when that management person really deserves to be fired?
Who is migrating to a position that very few drivers were hurt in this? Do you realize how insulting that is to your fellow employees?
This is not just limited to California or lunch breaks, there is a huge issue with coercion and management abuses in our company. Pick another initative, let's jump over to our side of the fence -management- and look at the United Way issue, How about the pressue there to contribute so UPS can make its annual number?
Have you ever tried to tell you management team- No thanks, I already have a favorite charity? I had to get HR involved when I first started beause I politely refused to contribute. My job was threatened because I would not contribute to the United Way. When HR stepped in my superiors were incredulous, not because I contacted HR, but because this is the way they had always managed-they literally didn't know that they were not allowed to threaten me to contribute to a charity.
Look at this forum, look at these threads, this is not Disneyland-morale at UPS is always an issue, you said yourself that you are argueing the process of class action, not whether or not abuses took place that caused class action-Now, you are shifting to a "mutual understanding that very few drivers, if any were hurt in by the lunch issue?"
Man, what a stretch.
You are talking about class action for this very same problem in 3-4 different states. This has affected millions of dollars of employees compensation.
The question still stands, as a management person who abuses an employees time, and I think we are all at a mutual understanding that this happens constantly, with respect to meal breaks-
How does one reconcile taking bonuses and the MIP which are merit based, when that management person really deserves to be fired?
Dixie Doll
The Hell You Say
Tieguy,
Give it up.....you are outnumbered. When you are the only one who sees something wrong with this situation, get a clue. Nobody shares your pompous attitude. Nobody needs to prove anything to you. Nobody needs to show you anything. Regardless of your thoughts, anytime the company breaks the rules and takes advantage of its employees, the employee has then suffered an injury. Look at the history of UPS lawsuits online. Settlements are common because they can not be used as prior prescedent. When UPS knows it can't win, it settles. It's that simple. Again, you are under the mistaken assumption that these people did not suffer a wrong, and were not harmed. The mere fact that they did suffer a wrong renders them harmed.
Give it up.....you are outnumbered. When you are the only one who sees something wrong with this situation, get a clue. Nobody shares your pompous attitude. Nobody needs to prove anything to you. Nobody needs to show you anything. Regardless of your thoughts, anytime the company breaks the rules and takes advantage of its employees, the employee has then suffered an injury. Look at the history of UPS lawsuits online. Settlements are common because they can not be used as prior prescedent. When UPS knows it can't win, it settles. It's that simple. Again, you are under the mistaken assumption that these people did not suffer a wrong, and were not harmed. The mere fact that they did suffer a wrong renders them harmed.
tieguy
Banned
Dixie there really is nothing to give up here. The lawsuit has been filed and settled. The money will be disbursed. As such the deal is done. I'm merely a message board poster delving into some of the idiosyncracies of this type of case. To me this is actually a very fascinating example of government gone totally arwy.
Through the process of this thread we have seen that what we had here was a class action lawsuit with few if any victims. For all intents and purposes the awarding of these monies was nothing more then state sponsered welfare.
No one could acount for damages that required the compensation they recieved. None had even filed grievances on the issue.
Those then taking this money could not justify it through the meal issue itself so they generally justified it through the I'm a good upser I deserve the money just because reason.
It was an interesting exercise because many of these posters would swear up and down that they had integrity but when presented with a substantial windfall that was not earned for the meal reason they found ways to justify their exceptance of this victimless money.
This type of lawsuit in which a beneficiary is drafted into a lawsuit as captive labor could very well be one good reason why companies avoid setting up shop in California if possible. It could certainly be one good reason why California pays so much more for their goods and services then the rest of the country.
I would like to see this class action captivity drawn out to its fullest of extremism. Can we find 5 or 6 gay drivers to file a class action lawsuit based on discrimination. And if so will we then find the california courts assume all 6000 drivers in california are gay? Or will they they then realize the lunacy of their class action system and try to reduce the pool in some fashion.
Again all fascinating stuff. I thank you for participating.
Iconoclast
Well-Known Member
Dixie there really is nothing to give up here. The lawsuit has been filed and settled. The money will be disbursed. As such the deal is done. I'm merely a message board poster delving into some of the idiosyncracies of this type of case. To me this is actually a very fascinating example of government gone totally arwy.
How has Government gone awry here? class actions are filed everyday in this country, many are not settled-they are beaten-why? because it couldn't be proved that enough damage was done to warrant a judgment or a settlement. The simple filing of class action does not amount to Jack Squat, your case has to have merit- Again, a good reason why UPS may have settled.
Through the process of this thread we have seen that what we had here was a class action lawsuit with few if any victims. For all intents and purposes the awarding of these monies was nothing more then state sponsered welfare.
How can you make such a statement? If that were the case, why would UPS settle? Are you inferring that to simply beat a company out of millions and millions of dollars you simply have to file a merit-less lawsuit-that is ridiculous!! What are you saying about UPS ability to defend itself.
No one could acount for damages that required the compensation they recieved. None had even filed grievances on the issue.
Show us proof of that - you are making a sweeping generalization without any substantiated facts.
Those then taking this money could not justify it through the meal issue itself so they generally justified it through the I'm a good upser I deserve the money just because reason.
That is your exegesis of this case-Interestingly enough, nobody else shares your analysis. You seem to want to overlook the fact that UPS settled this case which would indicate that there has been widespread abuse in this area. No abuse of an employees meal breaks means no class action right? or, do you still believe that simply filing a class action lawsuit regardless of merit will constitute a huge settlement on the part of UPS. If this is what you are inferring- at least provide us with some reasonable explanation as to why you think UPS would do that.
It was an interesting exercise because many of these posters would swear up and down that they had integrity but when presented with a substantial windfall that was not earned for the meal reason they found ways to justify their exceptance of this victimless money.
Again, you are the only one who seems to believe that class action filed and settled on this very same issue in 3 different states didn't have any merit behind it. It was literally done by 3-4 people, nobody went through the grievance process, and there were no abuses on the part of management-UPS just decided to settle - absolutely mystifying
This type of lawsuit in which a beneficiary is drafted into a lawsuit as captive labor could very well be one good reason why companies avoid setting up shop in California if possible. It could certainly be one good reason why California pays so much more for their goods and services then the rest of the country.
What about Illinois and Washington state?
I would like to see this class action captivity drawn out to its fullest of extremism. Can we find 5 or 6 gay drivers to file a class action lawsuit based on discrimination. And if so will we then find the california courts assume all 6000 drivers in california are gay? Or will they they then realize the lunacy of their class action system and try to reduce the pool in some fashion.
Thank you, you have helped prove our point. If you were to try and file a suit like the one above, it would never see the light of a court room-it is completely without merit, it is a baseless suit. You are alleging through analogy that the UPS class action in California is in the same ridiculous class as the contrived example above. You say that there were no damages to drivers, you say that 3-4 people filed and everyone else was included, you say that nobody filed a grievance, but just because you say that does not make it so - in short- you can't prove that.
I know...I know, you want me to prove my side right? I can't prove it either, I can only make reasonable inferences and educated judgements about what I think may have happened.
So, it boils down to this - either UPS would settle a suit that cost them millions and millions or they won't, they would fight it.
If the suit has very few drivers affected, like you stated, and only 3-4 people had to file, like you stated, and everyone else is included, regardless of damages, and UPS just settles, I am sorry, that is unreasonable and illogical. I don't buy it, and neither do many of the people who have participated in this thread.
I do think that a settlement in this case does indicate that there was widespread damage on the part of UPS, class action is a legal way to be included in a suit where you may not have been aware that you were harmed, and you don't have to prove it.
This is important now Tie, just like in your example with the alternative lifestyle drivers, -You don't have to settle- Again, UPS didn't have to settle. If you have the means and, believe you me, there are few other companies in the world with enough means to legally defend themselves as UPS, you can fight a meritless lawsuit and win. Can you think of a more meritless lawsuit than the one you have consistently outlined in this thread?
So which scenario, without proof, is a more reasonable deduction?
Again all fascinating stuff. I thank you for participating.
Thank you for participating, just for grins and giggles, how about we continue the discussion, there may be some people who still want to weigh in.
How has Government gone awry here? class actions are filed everyday in this country, many are not settled-they are beaten-why? because it couldn't be proved that enough damage was done to warrant a judgment or a settlement. The simple filing of class action does not amount to Jack Squat, your case has to have merit- Again, a good reason why UPS may have settled.
Through the process of this thread we have seen that what we had here was a class action lawsuit with few if any victims. For all intents and purposes the awarding of these monies was nothing more then state sponsered welfare.
How can you make such a statement? If that were the case, why would UPS settle? Are you inferring that to simply beat a company out of millions and millions of dollars you simply have to file a merit-less lawsuit-that is ridiculous!! What are you saying about UPS ability to defend itself.
No one could acount for damages that required the compensation they recieved. None had even filed grievances on the issue.
Show us proof of that - you are making a sweeping generalization without any substantiated facts.
Those then taking this money could not justify it through the meal issue itself so they generally justified it through the I'm a good upser I deserve the money just because reason.
That is your exegesis of this case-Interestingly enough, nobody else shares your analysis. You seem to want to overlook the fact that UPS settled this case which would indicate that there has been widespread abuse in this area. No abuse of an employees meal breaks means no class action right? or, do you still believe that simply filing a class action lawsuit regardless of merit will constitute a huge settlement on the part of UPS. If this is what you are inferring- at least provide us with some reasonable explanation as to why you think UPS would do that.
It was an interesting exercise because many of these posters would swear up and down that they had integrity but when presented with a substantial windfall that was not earned for the meal reason they found ways to justify their exceptance of this victimless money.
Again, you are the only one who seems to believe that class action filed and settled on this very same issue in 3 different states didn't have any merit behind it. It was literally done by 3-4 people, nobody went through the grievance process, and there were no abuses on the part of management-UPS just decided to settle - absolutely mystifying
This type of lawsuit in which a beneficiary is drafted into a lawsuit as captive labor could very well be one good reason why companies avoid setting up shop in California if possible. It could certainly be one good reason why California pays so much more for their goods and services then the rest of the country.
What about Illinois and Washington state?
I would like to see this class action captivity drawn out to its fullest of extremism. Can we find 5 or 6 gay drivers to file a class action lawsuit based on discrimination. And if so will we then find the california courts assume all 6000 drivers in california are gay? Or will they they then realize the lunacy of their class action system and try to reduce the pool in some fashion.
Thank you, you have helped prove our point. If you were to try and file a suit like the one above, it would never see the light of a court room-it is completely without merit, it is a baseless suit. You are alleging through analogy that the UPS class action in California is in the same ridiculous class as the contrived example above. You say that there were no damages to drivers, you say that 3-4 people filed and everyone else was included, you say that nobody filed a grievance, but just because you say that does not make it so - in short- you can't prove that.
I know...I know, you want me to prove my side right? I can't prove it either, I can only make reasonable inferences and educated judgements about what I think may have happened.
So, it boils down to this - either UPS would settle a suit that cost them millions and millions or they won't, they would fight it.
If the suit has very few drivers affected, like you stated, and only 3-4 people had to file, like you stated, and everyone else is included, regardless of damages, and UPS just settles, I am sorry, that is unreasonable and illogical. I don't buy it, and neither do many of the people who have participated in this thread.
I do think that a settlement in this case does indicate that there was widespread damage on the part of UPS, class action is a legal way to be included in a suit where you may not have been aware that you were harmed, and you don't have to prove it.
This is important now Tie, just like in your example with the alternative lifestyle drivers, -You don't have to settle- Again, UPS didn't have to settle. If you have the means and, believe you me, there are few other companies in the world with enough means to legally defend themselves as UPS, you can fight a meritless lawsuit and win. Can you think of a more meritless lawsuit than the one you have consistently outlined in this thread?
So which scenario, without proof, is a more reasonable deduction?
Again all fascinating stuff. I thank you for participating.
Thank you for participating, just for grins and giggles, how about we continue the discussion, there may be some people who still want to weigh in.
helenofcalifornia
Well-Known Member
I can't believe that this thread still has legs. Wait until June or July when we all receive our checks! They'll be some talkin' smack then!!
Cole
Well-Known Member
This has already happened in Washington State, and to be frank, it largely depends on state laws. The only way to fix your runs where you can make service is to take your luch according to the contract and put the burden on management to fix problems. If you skip your lunch you are only adding to the problem long term imho.
tieguy
Banned
What terrific advice this is. I wonder why some drivers have such a difficult time understanding such a simple concept?
neverskiplunch
Active Member
UPS takes advantage of drivers if YOU let them. It don't matter what route you run, you CAN take lunch. It's your fault if you skip lunch. But if you choose, it's about $7000.00 a year your giving back to your employer. And if you think bonus is making up for it, your wrong.
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