class action lawsuit against UPS

[tieguy]

Class action lawsuits were created to protect people who have had their rights violated, if they end up including people who have not have their rights violated, then they are subject to the exact same system of checks and balances that you aluded to earlier, you can actually prevail against a class action lawsuit, you don't have to settle it just because it was filed against you.

Which is what makes this case in california unique in that it is basically a victimless case. As such this case then becomes nothing more then class action welfare due to some serious flaws in the process.

 

[satellitedriver]

I guess I don't understand the implication......what's your point?

I guess I owe you a further explanation.

You asked:
Doesn't guilt go away after the first few lies?

It is a classic form of making an accusation wrapped in a question.
If one answers yes, they acknowledge that they lie.
If one answers no, they acknowledge that they are a liar and still feel guilty.

So, I just turned the question back on you. You implyed the implication and did not know how to answer when the implication was put towards you.
That was my point.
Welcome back.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tieguy -Which is what makes this case in california unique in that it is basically a victimless case. As such this case then becomes nothing more then class action welfare due to some serious flaws in the process.

Where is your proof in that? How are you determining that nobody was hurt in this class action process? Where is the logic and reason behind that statement. The absence of anybody coming forward in this forum to tell you that they were wronged is not proof that it didn't happen. You cannot not prove it either way, neither can I - you can only apply deductive reasoning to the situation.

Would UPS settle a lawsuit that damaged nobody? that had no victims and was completely without base and merit? I say emphatically No.

What is the logic behind my statement? It would set very serious legal precedence for others to bring similar suits, completely without merit, against UPS. Free money attracts a crowd. I don't think UPS or its legal team can afford to set such precedence.


What is your logic behind your opinion, why do you think UPS settled a suit where nobody was harmed? Again, I am not asking you if either of us has proof, we don't, but support your argument with some reasonable explanation, other than just conjecture.

 

[brownmonster]

It's funny how all of the sudden the center manager cares about us getting a mid day rest to get some nutrition and recharge the system. I guess if you want people to care you have to sue them.

 

[trickpony1]

I guess I owe you a further explanation.

You asked:
Doesn't guilt go away after the first few lies?

It is a classic form of making an accusation wrapped in a question.
If one answers yes, they acknowledge that they lie.
If one answers no, they acknowledge that they are a liar and still feel guilty.

So, I just turned the question back on you. You implyed the implication and did not know how to answer when the implication was put towards you.
That was my point.
Welcome back.

So, I guess, if I ask someone if they are having a good day then (multiple choice):
A) I am implying they are a good person having a good day
B) I am implying they are a bad person having a good day
C) I am implying they are a good person having a bad day
D) I am implying they are a bad person having a bad day
E) none of the above
friend) all of the above
G) how about the truth?.......Satellitedriver implied I was a liar in an earlier post.

 

[satellitedriver]

So, I guess, if I ask someone if they are having a good day then (multiple choice):
A) I am implying they are a good person having a good day
B) I am implying they are a bad person having a good day
C) I am implying they are a good person having a bad day
D) I am implying they are a bad person having a bad day
E) none of the above
friend) all of the above
G) how about the truth?.......Satellitedriver implied I was a liar in an earlier post.

No, that with be a direct question. You included if in the question. That gives the person you asked the question of the option of expanding away from a simple yes/no answer.
I implied no more than, since you asked the question you must know the answer.

 

[trickpony1]

.....so WHEN I ask someone if they know the distance between the earth and the moon then (multiple choice again):
A) I really don't know
B) I'm implying they know
C) I'm implying I don't know
D) all of the abopve
E) none of the above
friend) I didn't do as well in "Semantics 101" in college as satellitedriver did and I am either:
friend.1-trying to conceal it
friend.2-I'm messing with the person
(these cutesy icons mean I think what I just said was funny.....unless, of course, someone infers or extrapolates otherwise)

 

[DS]

G) 238,857 miles...

 

[tieguy]

No, that with be a direct question. You included if in the question. That gives the person you asked the question of the option of expanding away from a simple yes/no answer.
I implied no more than, since you asked the question you must know the answer.

Its good to see Trick get an education.

 

[browniehound]

This is a bit off topic but have you ever noticed how former drivers change when they become sups? Is there an actual course they have to take in intimidation?
We had a guy last week on vacation that ran into his sup in the mall,he begged him to come in the next day please please please
I promise you an easy day...they threw him into a new area with
40 stops too many. DUH
Like when you try to call in sick they say NO we NEED you.
Well I`m sorry but I`m still not coming in,hopefully
I`ll be ok tomorrow...I wouldn`t be calling in if I didn`t have to.
It makes me think that as hourly employees we are actually much better off because when we cant do the impossible and get our lunch in as well, the missed deliveries become the fault of upper management even though middle management gets blamed for it.
We should have a class action suit to get rid of PAS.

DS, I couldn't have said it better myself. If I'm too sick to come to work and make the phone call there is no way anyone is talking me out of it. Its very simple: if I'm well enough to work I'll be in, and if I'm not I won't be in and there is nobody on the planet that will talk me out of it. When I book back on its sufficient to talk to the OMS and nobody else. Why do I have to talk to my OMS, sup, and center manager when I book-off?

 

[satellitedriver]

So, I guess, if I ask someone if they are having a good day then (multiple choice):
A) I am implying they are a good person having a good day
B) I am implying they are a bad person having a good day
C) I am implying they are a good person having a bad day
D) I am implying they are a bad person having a bad day
E) none of the above
friend) all of the above
G) how about the truth?.......Satellitedriver implied I was a liar in an earlier post.

Hey Trick,
I was trying to reply to your post #267, but my computer kept locking up when I hit the qoute/reply button. I do not know why. That is why I am replying from this post.
Do you ask questions of people face to face and only give them the ability to answer the question only in multiple choice form? Probably not. The same rules apply in this cyber world as it does in the real world.
Your original queston was a muliple choice that could only be answered to affirm the implication in the question.
Now you seem to be upset and think I was accusing you of being a liar by asking you to answer your own question.
I did not take "Semantics 101" in college, but I wish it would have been offered.
I did take a course titled "Symbolic Logic". Actually next to Latin ,it was the most interesting course I had in college. It reduces an argument into an equation. It does not prove right or wrong in the argument. It only proves if the arguments conclusion is logical.
So,
Is it logical for you to be upset being asked to answer the question you asked?
If it is, then your intent in asking the question was to upset the person addressed in the question.
That is why my first reply to your post was that you were the best person to answer your own question.
Just my way of saying, welcome back.

 

[tieguy]

Hey Trick,
I was trying to reply to your post #267, but my computer kept locking up when I hit the qoute/reply button. I do not know why. That is why I am replying from this post.
Do you ask questions of people face to face and only give them the ability to answer the question only in multiple choice form? Probably not. The same rules apply in this cyber world as it does in the real world.
Your original queston was a muliple choice that could only be answered to affirm the implication in the question.
Now you seem to be upset and think I was accusing you of being a liar by asking you to answer your own question.
I did not take "Semantics 101" in college, but I wish it would have been offered.
I did take a course titled "Symbolic Logic". Actually next to Latin ,it was the most interesting course I had in college. It reduces an argument into an equation. It does not prove right or wrong in the argument. It only proves if the arguments conclusion is logical.
So,
Is it logical for you to be upset being asked to answer the question you asked?
If it is, then your intent in asking the question was to upset the person addressed in the question.
That is why my first reply to your post was that you were the best person to answer your own question.
Just my way of saying, welcome back.

It appears satallite took your gun from you and shot you with it.

 

[surviv'n_it]

I always said we should only have our lunch time taken out of our pay if we take it. I dont mind working without a lunch break as long as I am paid for that time.

I work hard for UPS and do get paid well, but I want to get paid fairly for the time I put in. I do not come in early and load off the clock. I will not do my safetly questions or other "off route" requirements off the clock so it only makes sense that I only get my lunch time deducted if I take it.

 

[tieguy]

I always said we should only have our lunch time taken out of our pay if we take it. I dont mind working without a lunch break as long as I am paid for that time.

I work hard for UPS and do get paid well, but I want to get paid fairly for the time I put in. I do not come in early and load off the clock. I will not do my safetly questions or other "off route" requirements off the clock so it only makes sense that I only get my lunch time deducted if I take it.

That may actually help this type of case. I would think our drivers would take thier lunch if they knew the hour was coming out automatically.

 

[paganpink]

I, too, took a logic class in college where you break down questions, and in a fashion similar to mathematics, determine whether they are true or false. There are many types of fallacious (false) arguments, often labeled in Latin, such as those labeled "ad ignoratium" or "argument from ignorance". An example would be "I have never seen a yellow dog, so therefore there are no yellow dogs" The fact that you have never seen a yellow dog doesn't prove that there are none. The type of argument cited above by some people in a previous post is called, in simple terms," begging the question" , because the answer is already assumed in the question. An example is " Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Regardless of how you answer, whether it is "yes" or "no" you are admitting to beating your wife. There are many others of course, like "appeals to authority" (used all the time in advertising to persuade) where a celebrity, or doctor, or scientist, endorses a product though they have no expertise in the particular subject being debated. Michael Jordan sells a lot of shoes based on that, but isn't a foot doctor or a shoemaker. A good example would be Al Gore persuading people about global warming. His opinion is of no more value than any other person who has researched the subject on their own because he has no special knowledge or training on global climate change by dint of being an ex vice-president, or because he is an attorney, or a father, or a resident of Tennesee, etc., etc. Just my two cents worth...

 

[dave_socal]

California ... who would have guessed? The land of fruits and nuts!

Oh thats funny coming from a state the size of a nut and a city full second place lovers(red sox). This state is known for Hollywood and the beaches. So please no absurd comments from the peanut gallery at fenway

 

[tieguy]

Would UPS settle a lawsuit that damaged nobody? that had no victims and was completely without base and merit? I say emphatically No.

Fdx just settled one in California ( imagine that same state) for 55 million. Lawsuit accused them of discrimanatory practices because of a pre-employment test they required.
You need to pull your emphatic No and rethink your position. The class action lawsuit climate in california is forcing a lot of large companies to settle on these fishing expeditions. Fdx is either discriminating in a time of shrinking labor pools or the legal language in this state is so tilted against them that they feel they can not win.

Now if you feel that justice was served on behalf of those who could not pass this pre-employment test then move on, if however you think the latter is the case then you have a real potential crisis in which companies who feel the conditions in California are unfavorable will move out. Oops never mind already happening.

 

[Cole]

Let's see...management gets bonuses off production, so hmmm do they rigg it?! Of course, that's why after you have a time study it takes so long for them to give you the results. Oh and if you're not on pas just wait, you know longer get time for sorting in your truck since with this infallable system, there's no need. LOLThe confusion the loaders face now and the dispatchers who have no area knwledge, really combine for some wild dispatches. You will actually have to sort more, because EDD will show more packages then you can find, so you have to sort for that 1 or 2 pkgs you can't find, and several stops per day. Also anyone ever notice you're time over is usually = to the 1hr and 10 minute break/lunch.

I have gained anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes on time studies, yet very rarley does my dispatch reflect that.

 

[dave_socal]

"a real potential crisis in which companies who feel the conditions in California are unfavorable will move out. Oops never mind already happening."

Oh we here in California are really worried about losing any companies to windblown snowed in average states like uh...mmmm...how's that latest nor'easter working out for ya
I don't need to list the thousands of reasons companies come here and stay. The country and world looks to California to set trends, wether in government policy or in the business community or in entertainment. So by attempting to augment your bored arguments by trying to discredit this state's business climate is feeble at best. Some of the most progressive legislation(pro worker) has come from this state so any company wishing a lesser pool of talent or to circumvent these laws can get there snow gear out and don't let the door hit them on the way out. We have the largest population in the country who do you think employs us all Mcdonalds? This states economy,stand alone, is 10th largest in the world so your scare tactics are just plain dumb. We are letting companies know one thing follow the law period. It seems to work just fine for this state.

 

[tieguy]

Oh we here in California are really worried about losing any companies to windblown snowed in average states like uh...mmmm...how's that latest nor'easter working out for ya
I don't need to list the thousands of reasons companies come here and stay. The country and world looks to California to set trends, wether in government policy or in the business community or in entertainment. So by attempting to augment your bored arguments by trying to discredit this state's business climate is feeble at best. Some of the most progressive legislation(pro worker) has come from this state so any company wishing a lesser pool of talent or to circumvent these laws can get there snow gear out and don't let the door hit them on the way out. We have the largest population in the country who do you think employs us all Mcdonalds? This states economy,stand alone, is 10th largest in the world so your scare tactics are just plain dumb. We are letting companies know one thing follow the law period. It seems to work just fine for this state.

Interesting sounds like you missed the crisis of the past years that helped propel the terminator to your governorship.

You probably didn't notice that your gas prices are about a buck a gallon higher then everyone else either? Guess they sell you some of that special gas in CA made from magic beans , huh?

You are right though there are alot of people trying to get into your state most of them from some place south of you.