bleedinbrown58
That’s Craptacular
Not far from NY....parts of upstate NY call it that too I've heard..lol.
Do you think this warning letter for a late Early AM is justified?
- Thread starter 728ups
- Start date
Re-Raise
Well-Known Member
I never said anything about special A. In my diad board if you go to special counts, over 70s is listed under the options.
Mack Grant
Well-Known Member
Brownslave that's a double edged sword and you know that.
Socrates
Well-Known Member
I don't know what kind of handtrucks the rest of you have (aerodynamic, perfectly molded to your truck, etc.?), but even pushing over 70's out of the rear of your truck and onto the handcart, 92 times out of 100, requires lifting the front end of the pkg onto the hand cart. The bumper is lower than the cab floor, but only by a few inches, so for a 7' 100lb piece of furniture, you'd have to push it 4 feet or more past the fulcrum and hope it plops perfectly into place. Then you have to go back around and try to lift it from the side (a violation of the 8 keys of lifting and lowering) if it protruded above the handle.
And that's if it's a perfectly flat/smooth and long box. What about 80lb anchors, or suitcases, or carpets/fabric rolls, or bottom-heavy moving/cubic box, etc? Yeah, and good luck shoving a truck part strapped to a 1/2 wooden pallet out of the back of your truck without lifting it whatsoever.
Production standards aren't in the contract, so if Management wanted to play the "Safety Or Else" game, they lose. If they want to play the "Production Or Else" game, they also lose. There isn't really a middle ground where they get their way no matter what, unless they get caught up in the minutia of like improper footwear, or not shaving, or being 2 minutes late, etc. But as far as, once you're in the truck making deliveries (aka, the 98% of time we spend outside the center), it's game over. Teamsters win. Fatality.
Imagine it yourself. Get yelled at because your shoes aren't shiny? Spend 20 minutes doing a "proper" DOT pre-trip. Clocked in 2 minutes late yesterday and got a warning letter? Next time if you know you'll be late, just tell them you aren't showing up--if they're going to count Lates the same as Absences, then just be Absent. Get yelled at for 'production'? Start using the handcart for anything even moderately heavy, like 40lbs for 20 feet when you normally wouldn't break it out unless the pkg is 70lbs for 50+ feet. One worker gets a warning letter after getting injured for not using the hand rail? I now put every single package down in the stairwell, and initiate 4 points of contact every time I leave the vehicle. --- Oh, and feel free to videotape all of the above. Good luck convincing the public, politicians, etc. that I'm being "unsafe" or purposely being "obtuse". Show them a video of you "safely" tucking a 30lb package under your arm and exiting with 3 points. I'm sure that'll go over well.
It'd be a long game, but in the end, you and I both know which side would emerge victorious. We'd get more routes, lesser loads, a more representative workforce (more Females, Minorities, etc.)...we'd win everywhere. But as long as 90% of the drivers are just screeching to "tough it out" (mostly the 0-15 year guys still with mostly-functional knees/backs), then we'll get nowhere.
And that's if it's a perfectly flat/smooth and long box. What about 80lb anchors, or suitcases, or carpets/fabric rolls, or bottom-heavy moving/cubic box, etc? Yeah, and good luck shoving a truck part strapped to a 1/2 wooden pallet out of the back of your truck without lifting it whatsoever.
Not much of one. Like a butter knife on one side, and a Michonne Katana edge on the other.
Production standards aren't in the contract, so if Management wanted to play the "Safety Or Else" game, they lose. If they want to play the "Production Or Else" game, they also lose. There isn't really a middle ground where they get their way no matter what, unless they get caught up in the minutia of like improper footwear, or not shaving, or being 2 minutes late, etc. But as far as, once you're in the truck making deliveries (aka, the 98% of time we spend outside the center), it's game over. Teamsters win. Fatality.
Imagine it yourself. Get yelled at because your shoes aren't shiny? Spend 20 minutes doing a "proper" DOT pre-trip. Clocked in 2 minutes late yesterday and got a warning letter? Next time if you know you'll be late, just tell them you aren't showing up--if they're going to count Lates the same as Absences, then just be Absent. Get yelled at for 'production'? Start using the handcart for anything even moderately heavy, like 40lbs for 20 feet when you normally wouldn't break it out unless the pkg is 70lbs for 50+ feet. One worker gets a warning letter after getting injured for not using the hand rail? I now put every single package down in the stairwell, and initiate 4 points of contact every time I leave the vehicle. --- Oh, and feel free to videotape all of the above. Good luck convincing the public, politicians, etc. that I'm being "unsafe" or purposely being "obtuse". Show them a video of you "safely" tucking a 30lb package under your arm and exiting with 3 points. I'm sure that'll go over well.
It'd be a long game, but in the end, you and I both know which side would emerge victorious. We'd get more routes, lesser loads, a more representative workforce (more Females, Minorities, etc.)...we'd win everywhere. But as long as 90% of the drivers are just screeching to "tough it out" (mostly the 0-15 year guys still with mostly-functional knees/backs), then we'll get nowhere.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
I prefer to use the over 70 in special counts. Special A is different.
Ouch
Well-Known Member
Let a non ups person hurt himself helping you and I will guarantee you it will be your butt in a sling. They will say you didn't follow the guidelines or protocol for an overweight package. It may never happen but if it does oh boy. It's funny how on another thread an employee was instructed to sheet a next day air missed that he could have made service on and now this employee is given a warning letter by not making service on time and followed the rules. I just don't get this company.
teamsterdan
Well-Known Member
which why the driver did the right thing, and the drivers on here who do and say otherwise are corporate tools, and choose to interpret the rules as they see fit.......if the driver follows mgt advice to roll or manipulate the parcel out of the pkg car on to a hand truck etc, AND GETS HURT, is UPS gunna pay his comp. no questions asked or blame HIM FOR NOT GETTING assistance????????? CYA follow the rules they create regardless why is it so hard to comprehend.......EVERY METHOD EVERY DAY............simple
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Had the driver done the right thing we wouldn't be having this conversation.
The driver hid behind the contract to get back at his mgt team.
bleedinbrown58
That’s Craptacular
Had you looked left, rightl, left...there'd be one less thread on BC! lol
I think the customer,didnt give him a xmas tip! wonder If he gets one this Xmas?
oldngray
nowhere special
I knew some drivers who didn't want their own bid route so they could get away with treating customers like dirt since they would rarely see the same people.
bleedinbrown58
That’s Craptacular
here's your tip...deliver my early AM's on time! lol
OPTION3
Well-Known Member
Any specific names….tee hee
give him a pretzel
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Let it go.
HBGPreloader
Well-Known Member
Article 44 specifically notes...
"Section 1. On Area Package Handling No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound packages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such handling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself.
In such cases, the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requested in good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriate lifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery...
...No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assistance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is not qualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard to themselves or the customer."
IMHO, this driver did everything right and the warning is not justified.
"Section 1. On Area Package Handling No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound packages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such handling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself.
In such cases, the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requested in good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriate lifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery...
...No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assistance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is not qualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard to themselves or the customer."
IMHO, this driver did everything right and the warning is not justified.
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
IMHO, this driver did everything right and the warning is not justified.
What is the point? Do you also think the driver acted in bad faith and should have had the customer help with unloading the delivery?
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
[/quote]PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
ARTICLE 44. OVER 70 POUND SERVICE
PACKAGE HANDLING
The parties agree that the health and safety of the employees are ofthe utmost importance. The Employer agrees that UPS managementwill not insist that any unsafe action be undertaken and the Unionagrees to encourage its members to cooperate in effectuating thehandling, pick-up and delivery of parcels without exposing them-selves to safety hazards.
Section 1. On Area Package Handling
No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound pack-ages alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such han-dling would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requestedin good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:
1.Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2.Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3.Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriatelifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circum-stances that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriatelifting/handling device.
In all such instances involving package car drivers, where assistance
from another bargaining unit employee has been requested in good
- 155 -
ARTICLE 43
BrownCafe.com
faith, both employees will be full-time employees of the bargainingunit except that air drivers or helpers, where permitted by the appli-cable Supplement, may be used to assist the full-time driver in thedelivery and/or pickup of such overweight packages. On Saturdays,air drivers may be assisted by another air driver in the deliveryand/or pickup of overweight packages. A helper may be used toassist a driver in the handling of overweight packages when a helperis already on the package car in accordance with the terms of theSupplement, Rider or Addendum.
No employee will be required to solicit or accept customer assis-tance if it is the employee’s good faith belief that the customer is notqualified to help or that such assistance would be a safety hazard tothemselves or the customer.
All new and existing employees who handle packages shall be pro-vided with periodic training in the recognition and proper handlingof over 70 pound packages.
What is the point? Do you also think the driver acted in bad faith and should have had the customer help with unloading the delivery?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The driver was being a dick and deserved the warning letter.
Potato, potaaato
Similar threads
