realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Because you use fake names, some may wonder what else is FAKE about you.
Fake stories?
Fake links?
Fake facts?
Last edited:
Elections
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
Fake stories?
Fake links?
Fake facts?
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
I guess I'm unsure how not voting helps the situation.
Part of the problem, it seems to me, is that our media-industrial complex vis-a-vis political candidates, especially in the last thirty years, has led to a general dumbing-down of these candidates, because no one with half a brain, at this point, will subject themselves to the injustice of the circus-like election process (whoring out to donors, the idiot-media cycle, etc.).
It's natural-selection, not for useful traits, but for those that respond positively to the insane world of elections today (see S. Palin, M. Bachmann, etc.).
A good example of this is President Obama: very good at winning the election, twice, not so great at running this country. There are several theorists saying that America actually doesn't want a 'great' President anymore, i.e. none among those we consider as 'great' Presidents would ever get elected today.
It's a race to the bottom.
Still, back to the point, I'm unsure how not voting helps the situation.
If no one voted, that might make a difference...if everyone voted, that would surely make a difference.
In all seriousness, what am I missing?
wkmac
Well-Known Member
It's a race to the bottom in your own words and I would agree. If your vote were money and you entered a store and saw completely inferior products that you knew if you bought would not only fail but not even do the job you spent your good money in the hopes they would do, would you still spend your money in that store just to feel like you've done something? Or would you vote by walking out of the store refusing to spend your money for any of their products in the first place? Do you spend your actual money this way? If it was you personally paying these peoples salary (you are) would you even hire them in the first place? Think of your vote as currency you've worked hard to earn and then look at the whole thing again.
That's one way of considering it. There's also the non aggression axiom but that's a whole other issue on a whole other level. Besides, in the current situation, seems to me voting for the most part is a false dilemma.
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
So, voting sucks. Gotcha. I agree with you.
But, tell me how not-voting makes things better...
We live under the system we currently live under...that's just the deal.
I don't agree with much of what occurs, or the mechanisms that propel this system forward.
In terms of my vote as currency, I agree.
If the question shifts toward: should I spend my currency voting vs. not-voting, if I vote, it's likely not much will change. If I don't vote, that's pretty much the same as voting, in the sense that most votes don't matter.
I suppose my real question is, in lieu of voting (participating in a flawed and rigged system), what is the benefit in not-voting?
I've heard all the non-responses to this question, which boil down to: your vote doesn't mean chit...so don't vote.
I'm not buying that. Like I said, if no one voted, that would send a message. If everyone voted, that would send a much larger message.
So, how do you gain a share of ownership in what's occurring by not-voting?
(Sidebar...remove all outside money from political elections, and then we might have a chance at electing people who might actually be able to fix the numerous ills we find ourselves in...)
Most of the posters who talk about guns, etc., have such a hard-on about securing individual freedoms.
The most important individual freedom we have as Americans, as I see it, is the right to vote. In my mind, the right to vote implies an obligation to vote...it's our civic duty.
If we'd been diligent in our 'civic duty', as conscientious citizens in the land we live in, we'd have likely avoided most of these problems.
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
So, in your view, what are possible actions citizens can take that actually would make 'things' better?
wkmac
Well-Known Member
That list is endless IMO. But being I have to leave for work in about 30 minutes.....
Rebuild local institutions and communities. The stronger one can be locally, the better for all IMO. When families and local communities were undermined, the very nature of the strongest safety net was removed right from our midst. It's no wonder people turned away from each other and turned to the only thing left and that was the state itself. Both the state and the industrial economy wanted compliant and submissive citizens because an independent and self dependent society would in many cases tell power at the top to go pound sand. There's more there but for now.
Decentralize power at the top. We likely agree that the concentration of wealth creates negative consequences and power is no different. The same so-called 1% which holds the wealth also holds the power. Left and Right is completely meaningless here. It only serves to keep us fighting and at each others throats while we get screwed. And yet we act shocked when both benefit from more growth while the rest of us suffer even more. Even worse each side defends it's respective place master like some Stockholm Syndrome victim. When wealth was more spread out in years gone by, what was the nature of power at the so-called top as regards to national power? As wealth concentrated more, what happened to power? What was the state of families and local communities before wealth and power concentrated and what of it now? As I see it, there's a relationship here and this has been observed historically by many.
By bringing power back locally which builds local autonomy, this actually begins to re-engage people because now they can see a more direct vested interest in such outcomes as you would want elections to have. The larger in scale something goes, the more disconnected and isolated it's members begin to sense and feel. Gov't, a business, an organization, a religion, take anything up in scale and the outcome of people are the same IMO. How do we feel at UPS as it relates to us and what the folks at 55 Glenlake think? That scale of isolation down to the human level is everywhere.
Same is true for corruption and abuse. Criminals and psychopaths like the shadows and lack of transparency where they can't be seen. Fact is, they become more criminal as the wealth and power they hold grows. They see the rest of us as adversary and something to suppress in order to safeguard their own place.
That's just one example of many that people might give pause and consideration too. There is no "one idea fixes all." This is why size and centralization fails. What works for me may well not work for you. Another idea may not work for either one of us. Centralization has always failed and always will. The solution is the freedom and liberty for each of us to seek our own solutions or work mutually with family, friends and neighbors to do the same. This is moving into the non aggression axiom that opposes force at all levels but that is a whole other matter as I said earlier.
Time for work. Sleep tight!
It's always October. It may lead one to believe in a worldwide conspiracy
wkmac, sometimes it is about the lesser of two evils.
Can you imagine where we'd be if McCain or Rmoney were the POTUS? Not in a better place, would be my bet.
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
Brown echo
If u are not alive than for sure truth is not real
Not really. I sure didn't see a viable third option. Perhaps you did/do.
This was the ballot. I voted my interests.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
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