Employees violating the contract?
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Integrity
Binge Poster
Dear Dustyroads,
It is I not Big I. (Just Kidding!)
I have personally witnessed people change in very dramatic ways. It is as if they are completely different people. Many UPS employees need to change.
UPSSOCKS does not represent UPS values, policies and codes of conduct well in the statements that I have read in this forum.
If I were an employee of this type of supervisor and I was aware or fell victim to any of the conduct he claims, then I would call the UPS 1-800 # and make a detailed report about this conduct anonymously. The reason why the report needs to be anonymous is that when you give your name UPS usually goes into a form of "damage control" and goes to the person who made the report and not to the issue at hand. This can be very intimidating for the average person who just wants to help UPS to be a better place to work. (I believe it borders on harassement, but that's probably a good topic for another discussion.) Not giving a name forces the focus to be on the concern called in, not on the concerned employee.
I would repeat this every time his conduct warrants it, until this supervisor either changes, leaves or is shown the door.
If I had any hatred or bitterness in my heart towards this supervisor then I would take no action because that cannot be the motivation in matters such as these. Hatred, bitterness, revenge and retaliation have no place in the struggle to try to make UPS a better place to work.
Sincerely,
I
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
if this isn't a big I i've never seen one. I've seen managers in my time that you would have to write that anonymous note every day. Luckily, I have a great center manager now, and never have to deal with that crap. I have serious doubts that anonymous notes or calls to the 800 number would do much to change things with socks or other guys like him.
And, if upper management needs me to tell them that the managers and supervisors that they manage are a mess, well, that just demonstrates a further lack of management connection with the operations.
And, if upper management needs me to tell them that the managers and supervisors that they manage are a mess, well, that just demonstrates a further lack of management connection with the operations.
Integrity
Binge Poster
Dear Dustyroads,
Good Point! Big I it is then! Or I for short.
Anonymous notes will do nothing, but valid anonymous calls and "good faith" reports to the 1-800# will work.
If you doubt it. Next time you come across a situation that warrants a call, why don't you try? If only to confirm your doubts.
The calls have to be valid and done in "good faith" to work.
Sincerely,
I
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Ok, I, about 10 years ago we had a center manager who was the scourge of the earth. Every single morning, he would call my on car sup in the office and call him every vulgar name you have ever heard and then some. Do you really think that my on car sup could call that number every morning and report his center manager's actions and the center manager wouldn't know who ratted him out? You are very out of touch with reality, I. I think your I should stand for imagination.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
If you are an hourly union employee, why waste your time anonymously reporting abusive behavior by management to some 1-800 number... that is staffed by management?
There is a better way to handle it...its called filing an Article 37 grievance. Document the problem, sign your name on the line, and hold the sup accountable for his behavior.
By being up front about it and creating a paper trail, you are covering your ass better than if you hid behind an anonymous complaint. Retaliation against a union member who files a grievance is a serious violation of both the contract and labor law.
They can ignore anonymous phone calls. They cant ignore a grievance.
There is a better way to handle it...its called filing an Article 37 grievance. Document the problem, sign your name on the line, and hold the sup accountable for his behavior.
By being up front about it and creating a paper trail, you are covering your ass better than if you hid behind an anonymous complaint. Retaliation against a union member who files a grievance is a serious violation of both the contract and labor law.
They can ignore anonymous phone calls. They cant ignore a grievance.
Integrity
Binge Poster
Yes I really think this. How would he know? There are only a couple of ways that he could know. The center manager could guess and wonder and believe and think he knows but again, there are only a couple of ways he could know. I have experience with a division manager that fits the description of your center manager above, the flaw in these individual's characters that makes it even less likely for them to know or even guess who made the call is that they generally are so out of control and feel they are so untouchable that they commit these violations to UPS values, policies, and codes of conduct to multiple people.
Reality is that there are a lot of unhappy UPS Employees and they are unhappy in part because there are a lot of management people who think they can do what they want to who they want because "that's how it is" at UPS. They give you this "if you don't like it leave" attitude.
They are able to do this because we let them get away with it and we are afraid to make the calls that need to be made.
Well I'm here to tell you that UPS is clear as to our values, policies and code of conduct that each and every employee should expect of themselves and those we work for. Maybe it is high time some of these individuals who fit the "scourge of the earth" billing, as you put it should be put on notice that if they are not able to handle the tough job of upholding the values, policies and code of conduct that their job requires then the employees are going to turn them over to Corporate and let them deal with their nonsense. If they don't like the high character standards and integrity that UPS expects of it's management then maybe they should be the ones to leave.
Sincerely,
I
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Since there are only two on car sups in the building, i think this center manager, even though he wasn't too bright, could have figured it out. You miss the point here, if the dm is so disconnected from his operation that he doesn't know his center manager's character, no amount of anonymous calls will change a thing. And, in this particular case, the dm was born without any character, so it would have only been worse for the poor on car sup. To be perfectly honest, I don't think corporate cares at all.
Integrity
Binge Poster
Dear soberups,
The 1-800 # is not staffed by management. It is an outside phone service that gets the report on behalf of UPS.
The purpose of making the report anonymous is not to hide from the issue but it is to prevent straying from the issue. Kind of like using a "keeping principles above personalities" approach to the issue at hand.
In my experience I have found that there is not a lot of confidence in the grievance process. The 1-800# is for hourly and management concerns.
Have you ever tried the 1-800#?
Sincerely,
I
Integrity
Binge Poster
Dear Dustyroad,
No disrepect intended. The corporate management responsible for handling concerns like this either care or they don't. What we think is irrelevant.The only way we can know for sure is but putting valid concerns in their lap and letting them handle it or not. Then we will know if they care or not. It is unfair for any of us to handle our issues or not handle our issues by guessing what others care about or don't. I challenge you to find one piece of evidence in the UPS values, policies and code of business conduct that would lead you to think that corporate doesn't care at all.
Sincerely,
I
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
BigI, the "values, policies and code of business conduct" are just words to the guys who are really running the operations. If you can't see that, it's just because you are so disassociated from the reality of the operation, or you choose not to accept reality. With the exception of my current management team, I've worked for managers who had no integrity and no sense of right and wrong, for most of my three decades. And, if the company's policy of demanding integrity from their managers is dependent on one of their subordinates reporting them to an 800 number, I don't expect you will ever see any changes in the pervasive lack of ethics that abounds among management. You have set up your program for Integrity to fail.
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All of your articles are a joke, especially 37. It's been filed before on me, it's a slap on the wrist.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
They are "your" articles too.
"Your" company entered into that contract. And as I recall, "your" company actively sought a "yes" vote from the bargaining unit for that same contract.
Did the "slap on the wrist" you supposedly received for violating that very same contract cause you to change your behavior towards the hourly who filed that grievance? Or have you simply chosen to disregard the legal agreement that "your" company entered into?
One final question; do you feel that you perform your duties and treat your employees in a manner that reflects Jim Casey's values, and his vision for the company that he founded?
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Sober,
Great post, and your policy of ignoring trolls is definitely worthwhile....
I did notice however that you have responded a couple of times to the "bait".
Trust your original intuitions.
P-Man
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Sober,
As someone else said, the 800 number is not staffed by management. An outside company reports the information to Corporate HR. I know some of the people that monitor and follow up on the calls (at least they did a couple of years ago). They are excellent people and truly want to fix the situations.
However, actions do move back down to the district for resolution with corporate oversight.
Whether someone calls the 800 number or files a grievance is not necessarily important. Taking action is.
No one can assure that the situation will be properly resolved,... However, I do know that there is a greater chance of fixing the situation by taking one of those two paths than posting on a bulletin board.
P-Man
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The way most people deal with trolls is to respond with insults...whoch only throws more fuel upon the fire.
I'ts better to avoid the name-calling, and to stick to facts and honest questions that the troll will be unable or unwilling to answer.
Ignoring the troll would probably be the better choice...but it wont be as much fun.
BCFan
Well-Known Member
BrownLou
New Member
This seems like the logical thing to do! The problem is our union steward (which is what I believe you mean by shop steward?) is driving one of the trucks this person loads! What a joke!!!! They are good friends & the steward bends over backwards for this person in order to keep them out of trouble! So thanks for the suggestion, but do you have any others?!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
This seems like the logical thing to do! The problem is our union steward (which is what I believe you mean by shop steward?) is driving one of the trucks this person loads! What a joke!!!! They are good friends & the steward bends over backwards for this person in order to keep them out of trouble! So thanks for the suggestion, but do you have any others?!
Yup. Go over his head and go to your BA (business agent).
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