Express volume finally moving to Ground...

[59 Dano]

Post the link to the Court of Appeals case that you claim cements FedEx's designation as an airline.

Already did. You didn't like it.

Fedex was not a party, their business model at that time was used in the reasoning for the opinion the court delivered.

Facts, relied upon in the decision making have changed.

The only fact that remains constant is that Federal Express was founded and incorporated as an airline under RLA designation.

We can bust each other's balls on other matters, just supply my request for the Appeals Court case and I will line by line explain the Court's reasoning and how it does not support today's reality.

Let's do it the easy way. You tell me why an airline should not be classified as an airline, based on any applicable law(s) and any court decisions you feel support your view.

@Fred's Myth is correct, the ruling is antiquated, it does not comply with the current business model.

You guys can argue until the cows come home that whatever ruling it is that you're talking about is antiquated or whatever other excuses or lines of reasoning make you feel better. It doesn't change anything.

The pipe dream is that the current FedEx business model somehow changes the RLA status. It doesn't.

 

[floridays]

Let's do it the easy way. You tell me why an airline should not be classified as an airline, based on any applicable law(s) and any court decisions you feel support your view.

I have, numerous times. I will give you the opportunity to actually respond since you asked the question.

Rethorical questions, mean no response required.

How many airlines currently do business, or fly in the United States?

How many of these airlines carry passengers and cargo?

Of the passenger airlines that carry cargo (all) ,deliver their cargo to destination and how many terminate or fulfill their cargo, passenger obligation at an airport?

Which part is air ops, and when are ground ops, or motor vehicles, required by the airlines for delivery or termination of carriage?


Naw, I think you should answer the questions.

I'm not through, more questions after your responses.

 

[MrFedEx]

At Amateur Night at the Law School, our pride and joy posited his usual nonsense, most glaringly:

LOL, no. The courts have already ruled on this. You're paying for a service commitment and all associated fees -- not a method of transportation.

How could someone so wrapped up in this not know that the legal system has already been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt? ROTFLMAO!!!


"Hey, Jim. Let's go look at the message board and see if we can drum up some business! There's this guy, MrFedEx, and man he's sharp. We'd better jump on those cases PRONTO! Else he'll take them on himself!"

Try to pay attention from under the desk, OK? When someone pays exorbitant charges for a service to be performed, they have a rightful expectation that said service will actually be accomplished. When it isn't, the customer isn't getting what they paid for, as in false advertising, fraud, and deception. If I spend $125 to have Uncle Abner's vital meds shipped overnight EXPRESS and Fred decides to put it aboard a pack mule and it doesn't arrive on time, that is actionable. Please cite the court cases that uphold Fred's right to LIE to the customer about what they're getting. If I order a Lamborghini and a Yugo arrives, I've been robbed, and that's what Dear Leader does when he sticks your vital package on a Ground truck and it fails miserably.

I would assume these court rulings weren't based on the current business model, correct? After you're done polishing Raj's Mercedes get back to us. He'll tell you what to say.

 

[59 Dano]

I have, numerous times. I will give you the opportunity to actually respond since you asked the question.

Rethorical questions, mean no response required.

How many airlines currently do business, or fly in the United States?

How many of these airlines carry passengers and cargo?

Of the passenger airlines that carry cargo (all) ,deliver their cargo to destination and how many terminate or fulfill their cargo, passenger obligation at an airport?

Which part is air ops, and when are ground ops, or motor vehicles, required by the airlines for delivery or termination of carriage?


Naw, I think you should answer the questions.

I'm not through, more questions after your responses.

The answer to all those questions is that FedEx Express is an airline and neither of us know of any law, court decision, or labor board decision that says otherwise.

 

[zeev]

RLA or not FedEx s poison pill is all the contract delivery labor. With 160.00 a day no benefits labor they will spend all their bribes on keeping that model, my Ground driver started in November and can’t wait to leave.

 

[Cactus]

The answer to all those questions is that FedEx Express is an airline and neither of us know of any law, court decision, or labor board decision that says otherwise.

As long as Fred keeps greasing the right politicians by writing them fat checks. Oh that's right, he's stepping down. Sure hope Raj can figure out the art of bribery. Ha, ha, ha!

 

[MrFedEx]

Already did. You didn't like it.


Let's do it the easy way. You tell me why an airline should not be classified as an airline, based on any applicable law(s) and any court decisions you feel support your view.


You guys can argue until the cows come home that whatever ruling it is that you're talking about is antiquated or whatever other excuses or lines of reasoning make you feel better. It doesn't change anything.

The pipe dream is that the current FedEx business model somehow changes the RLA status. It doesn't.

I can never reply in real time any longer, so this will inevitably be delayed. The current FedEx business model certainly should change the RLA status because the "facts" (mostly political connections) that determined the original ruling no longer apply. Plain and simple (for you), FedEx is no longer anything close to being an "airline". It is a hybrid model of Ground and Air that should result in FedEx becoming an NLRA-governed entity in terms of labor law. Please tell us why FedEx should continue to be under the RLA, sir.

I would think that UPS would be extremely interested in seeing the government revisit the RLA Exemption, because Fred's gift is a major business advantage. FedEx can continue to play the game of calling terminals "stations" and assigning airport identifiers to terminals which never see an airplane and don't even have an airport. It's a game, a con, and a scam. You have to give Smith credit for pulling it off for so long, but the "airline" claim is so completely bogus now that placing FedEx entirely under the NLRA would seem to be obvious.
Please relay what Raj tells you to tell us, OK?

 

[floridays]

The answer to all those questions is that FedEx Express is an airline and neither of us know of any law, court decision, or labor board decision that says otherwise.

No it isn't, respond

How many airlines currently do business, or fly in the United States?

 

[oldrps]

Try to pay attention from under the desk, OK? When someone pays exorbitant charges for a service to be performed, they have a rightful expectation that said service will actually be accomplished. When it isn't, the customer isn't getting what they paid for, as in false advertising, fraud, and deception. If I spend $125 to have Uncle Abner's vital meds shipped overnight EXPRESS and Fred decides to put it aboard a pack mule and it doesn't arrive on time, that is actionable. Please cite the court cases that uphold Fred's right to LIE to the customer about what they're getting. If I order a Lamborghini and a Yugo arrives, I've been robbed, and that's what Dear Leader does when he sticks your vital package on a Ground truck and it fails miserably.

I would assume these court rulings weren't based on the current business model, correct? After you're done polishing Raj's Mercedes get back to us. He'll tell you what to say.

So what happens when Express doesn't give it to Ground and doesn't deliver it on time?

I have a vendor that sends everything to me via Priority Overnight and I rarely get them on time (12:00 noon). Many times, it takes two days to get them. I haven't seen on this board that Express gives Ground the overnight packages yet. That is all on Express.

Express is not a stellar delivery company anymore and their tracking is atrocious. There is no longer in transit scanning by Express, your lucky if it gets a pickup scan, a scan in Memphis, then out for delivery. Ground at least shows scans at every building it goes through and sometimes as it travels. Express is just horrible.

 

[MAKAVELI]

So what happens when Express doesn't give it to Ground and doesn't deliver it on time?

I have a vendor that sends everything to me via Priority Overnight and I rarely get them on time (12:00 noon). Many times, it takes two days to get them. I haven't seen on this board that Express gives Ground the overnight packages yet. That is all on Express.

Express is not a stellar delivery company anymore and their tracking is atrocious. There is no longer in transit scanning by Express, your lucky if it gets a pickup scan, a scan in Memphis, then out for delivery. Ground at least shows scans at every building it goes through and sometimes as it travels. Express is just horrible.

The reason Express service has been failing is because of piss poor management. From OPS management all the way up to Fred, Raj, and little Dickey. They have been trying to reinvent the wheel coming up with expensive failed ideas that only weigh down morale and filters down to Frontline workers.

 

[zeev]

Ground is being prioritized more resources from Freight are being used for line haul ,Express contracts with third party contractors who may or may not show up. Treat Express like crap let them leave and continue to move freight to Ground.

 

[Aquaman]

Already did. You didn't like it.


Let's do it the easy way. You tell me why an airline should not be classified as an airline, based on any applicable law(s) and any court decisions you feel support your view.


You guys can argue until the cows come home that whatever ruling it is that you're talking about is antiquated or whatever other excuses or lines of reasoning make you feel better. It doesn't change anything.

The pipe dream is that the current FedEx business model somehow changes the RLA status. It doesn't.

Come on man, it’s not a mystery. You know why everyone here feels strongly about it. Legally, sure it checks out. But the fact is majority of us do not work at the airport. Do not have airport badges. Never see the plane. Yet are considered airline employees. Which is fine. If it weren’t for not being able to unionize because of it. An Express RTD doing pickup/delivery is doing NOTHING different than a UPS driver. Nothing different than a Ryder, XPO, Averitt, R+L, Sysco, or FedEx Freight driver. It’s the same job. Yet our pay is weaker due to zero threat of unionization. That not right. And it’s the main reason for the massive surge in contract carriers at Express. Nobody wants the job anymore. And they’re having to contract routes out to companies & drivers they have no control over. But hey at least we’re airline employees lol.

 

[Aquaman]

The answer to all those questions is that FedEx Express is an airline and neither of us know of any law, court decision, or labor board decision that says otherwise.

Yes… we know. Your stubbornness to ignore any and all arguments as to why that’s dumb is the real puzzle.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Yes… we know. Your stubbornness to ignore any and all arguments as to why that’s dumb is the real puzzle.

The corporate line was "you have no need to unionize because we will treat you as valued assets and do right by you with industry-leading pay and benefits" while working feverishly in the background to do everything BUT. They now think they are in a position to do anything they wish without regard. Express employees have about 5 minutes left to yank their heads out of their asses and organize, even if it will take a monumental effort. Failing that, you can kiss your job goodbye.

Soon, and very soon.

 

[vantexan]

Amazon doesn’t need to do 3rd party shipping. They can hurt FedEx & UPS shipping their own stuff alone. Answer me this… if everyone buys everything off Amazon… who’s shipping with us? The more companies Amazon puts out of business, the less freight for us. They have become the site to buy EVERYTHING. That’s the real danger to FedEx & UPS. Amazon having a monopoly on the residential business. And it’s coming.

Amazon isn't selling their own stuff and putting other companies out of business. They are the conduit through which companies sell their stuff. There are very few Amazon things, like their tablets, with the Amazon brand. Now they might deeply hurt if not kill other shipping companies. But they aren't bankrupting widget companies by selling their own manufactured widgets. They are warehousing, selling, and shipping widgets for those widget manufacturers. Instead of companies handling it themselves they just ship to Amazon. Greatly streamlines the process making it more efficient and profitable.

 

[It will be fine]

Amazon isn't selling their own stuff and putting other companies out of business. They are the conduit through which companies sell their stuff. There are very few Amazon things, like their tablets, with the Amazon brand. Now they might deeply hurt if not kill other shipping companies. But they aren't bankrupting widget companies by selling their own manufactured widgets. They are warehousing, selling, and shipping widgets for those widget manufacturers. Instead of companies handling it themselves they just ship to Amazon. Greatly streamlines the process making it more efficient and profitable.

You must not be aware of Amazon basic products. They get the data on what sells well, copy the product and supply chain of that product and sell it at a lower cost.

 

[59 Dano]

I can never reply in real time any longer, so this will inevitably be delayed. The current FedEx business model certainly should change the RLA status because the "facts" (mostly political connections) that determined the original ruling no longer apply. Plain and simple (for you), FedEx is no longer anything close to being an "airline". It is a hybrid model of Ground and Air that should result in FedEx becoming an NLRA-governed entity in terms of labor law. Please tell us why FedEx should continue to be under the RLA, sir.

Because it's an airline. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[59 Dano]

No it isn't, respond

I don't know. Why don't you look it up and tell us?

 

[59 Dano]

Legally, sure it checks out.

Thanks, maybe the rest will catch on too.

 

[59 Dano]

Try to pay attention from under the desk, OK? When someone pays exorbitant charges for a service to be performed, they have a rightful expectation that said service will actually be accomplished. When it isn't, the customer isn't getting what they paid for, as in false advertising, fraud, and deception. If I spend $125 to have Uncle Abner's vital meds shipped overnight EXPRESS and Fred decides to put it aboard a pack mule and it doesn't arrive on time, that is actionable. Please cite the court cases that uphold Fred's right to LIE to the customer about what they're getting. If I order a Lamborghini and a Yugo arrives, I've been robbed, and that's what Dear Leader does when he sticks your vital package on a Ground truck and it fails miserably.

I would assume these court rulings weren't based on the current business model, correct? After you're done polishing Raj's Mercedes get back to us. He'll tell you what to say.

UPS faced a class action suit (and maybe others) for charging for their air service (along with respective fuel surcharges) and using the ground service to transport and deliver. Would you like to take a guess on how that turned out?