Express volume finally moving to Ground...

[59 Dano]

But it would only take one successful court case to change that.

You sound confident that will never happen.

The argument here used to be that couriers aren't airline employees because they deliver some 2 Day and Express Saver freight that isn't transported by air.

Now the argument is that couriers aren't airline employees because they don't deliver some 2 Day and Express Saver freight that is transported by Ground.

Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

 

[MAKAVELI]

NLRA doesn't cover any service, it covers companies and their employees. UPS Co (and its employees) are covered by the RLA.

You keep bringing up Ground as if Ground means anything in this discussion. It doesn't.

The NLRA covers the drivers and other non exempt employees at UPS. These employees have the same duties and functions that Express drivers and other non exempt employees have that have no direct job duties with the airline. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. I'm bringing up Ground because the two were kept separate to keep the RLA status of its drivers.

 

[vantexan]

Amazon is Walmart Part 2.

Walmart was the so-called big greedy corporate giant that steamrolled Ma and Pa stores and greased the skids for all the other giant chains (other big box stores and larger shopping malls) to dominate the shopping landscape. Why go to several locally owned shops when you can go to fewer stores with more diverse offerings and get a better price?

Amazon is the same thing, but with delivery, and it's hurting the big box stores and malls that put Ma and Pa out of business.

The people who HAAAAATED Walmart don't have a problem with Amazon since they deliver. Convenience over principles.

It's the efficiency of their business model. Used to go down to a hardware store looking for a particular something. Chances were they didn't have it but could order it. Wait at least a few weeks. Now can search on Amazon, look at reviews to narrow down a wide number of choices, pay for it and have it in my hands within as little as 24 hours. People who complain about how the supply chain problem is making them wait a week apparently never experienced how it used to be.

 

[vantexan]

The NLRA covers the drivers and other non exempt employees at UPS. These employees have the same duties and functions that Express drivers and other non exempt employees have that have no direct job duties with the airline. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand. I'm bringing up Ground because the two were kept separate to keep the RLA status of its drivers.

But doesn't UPS have air employees who get paid considerably less than their regular drivers? If you've done the UPS job it's much more demanding than the average Express courier rt. If anything FedEx should be paying Ground drivers much more than they do. Express couriers current pay plan is plenty enough for what they do. Biggest problem they have is getting FedEx to actually stick to the plan. Now if you're talking about when couriers drove big stepvans full of freight and had to still meet all the time commitments and be back to the building on time and work the morning sort and reload then I agree they should be paid similar to UPS. That's no longer the job for many if not most routes.

 

[MAKAVELI]

But doesn't UPS have air employees who get paid considerably less than their regular drivers? If you've done the UPS job it's much more demanding than the average Express courier rt. If anything FedEx should be paying Ground drivers much more than they do. Express couriers current pay plan is plenty enough for what they do. Biggest problem they have is getting FedEx to actually stick to the plan. Now if you're talking about when couriers drove big stepvans full of freight and had to still meet all the time commitments and be back to the building on time and work the morning sort and reload then I agree they should be paid similar to UPS. That's no longer the job for many if not most routes.

They had part time Air drivers which were paid less than the full time regular drivers. Those part time Air drivers were still paid higher than FedEx Express drivers and had the same progression time to top pay as the regular drivers. They also received the regular rate if they delivered any ground packages. I believe those positions are are either phased out or converted to the combo positions.

 

[59 Dano]

The NLRA covers the drivers and other non exempt employees at UPS. These employees have the same duties and functions that Express drivers and other non exempt employees have that have no direct job duties with the airline. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.

You keep telling me that the people who work for a company that has no airplanes and isn't an airline is covered by the NLRA (as if that's something that's been in dispute) and then asking why I don't understand.

I'm bringing up Ground because the two were kept separate to keep the RLA status of its drivers.

Ground is irrelevant.

 

[MAKAVELI]

You keep telling me that the people who work for a company that has no airplanes and isn't an airline is covered by the NLRA (as if that's something that's been in dispute) and then asking why I don't understand.


Ground is irrelevant.

UPS air isn't a separate corporation. Ttku...

 

[MAKAVELI]

You keep telling me that the people who work for a company that has no airplanes and isn't an airline is covered by the NLRA (as if that's something that's been in dispute) and then asking why I don't understand.


Ground is irrelevant.

DHL Express drivers and ground personnel and other Air carriers have been ruled to be covered under the NLRA. FedEx Express is the exception not the rule.

 

[Bald1der]

But doesn't UPS have air employees who get paid considerably less than their regular drivers? If you've done the UPS job it's much more demanding than the average Express courier rt. If anything FedEx should be paying Ground drivers much more than they do. Express couriers current pay plan is plenty enough for what they do. Biggest problem they have is getting FedEx to actually stick to the plan. Now if you're talking about when couriers drove big stepvans full of freight and had to still meet all the time commitments and be back to the building on time and work the morning sort and reload then I agree they should be paid similar to UPS. That's no longer the job for many if not most routes.

They do not separate the express and ground packages in their station network. A single driver delivers and picks up all service levels. Exceptions to this would be a package car delivering or picking up overnight services while the rest is picked up or delivered by trailer swap or bulk van.

In their hub network, all packages of all service levels that can make it to a destination while still meeting commitment will travel on the same trailer. For example, regional trailer runs say Philly to Pittsburgh will carry their equivalent of P1 through smartpost daily.

There is a position called Air Express Driver, which is part time and just does late pickups and dropboxes from 5 to 8:15ish. The pay rate is dismal, actually less than part time express courier.

 

[MAKAVELI]

They do not separate the express and ground packages in their station network. A single driver delivers and picks up all service levels. Exceptions to this would be a package car delivering or picking up overnight services while the rest is picked up or delivered by trailer swap or bulk van.

In their hub network, all packages of all service levels that can make it to a destination while still meeting commitment will travel on the same trailer. For example, regional trailer runs say Philly to Pittsburgh will carry their equivalent of P1 through smartpost daily.

There is a position called Air Express Driver, which is part time and just does late pickups and dropboxes from 5 to 8:15ish. The pay rate is dismal, actually less than part time express courier.

Actually the top rate for their Air drivers is more than most Express drivers and the biggest difference is they have the same 4 year progression as the regular full-time drivers and same benefits.

 

[floridays]

To the "public side" only without a SIDA or must be escorted by an authorized agent

Exactly, he knew that.
He knew I did as well.
@59 Dano

 

[Aquaman]

DHL Express drivers and ground personnel and other Air carriers have been ruled to be covered under the NLRA. FedEx Express is the exception not the rule.

You can’t give him a legit reason for why it should change, because he can’t get passed “Express is considered an airline” lol. There’s no argument from him because he’s already right. It is the way it is and any argument or example for why it’s ridiculous comes right back to “well they’re an airline so…”… I am an RTD. I did 7 deliveries and 2 pickups today. Didn’t leave from an airport… didn’t come back to an airport… just delivered 14 skids, and picked up 4. And I’m an airline employee unable to unionize lol.

 

[59 Dano]

UPS air isn't a separate corporation. Ttku...

Funny you should say, the court system says otherwise.

 

[59 Dano]

DHL Express drivers and ground personnel and other Air carriers have been ruled to be covered under the NLRA. FedEx Express is the exception not the rule.

I guess we’ll just have to take your word for these things and ignore the courts and the labor board.

And you might want to check your stuff again. The US ops of DHL Express subs out their air transport to third parties.

 

[59 Dano]

You can’t give him a legit reason for why it should change, because he can’t get passed “Express is considered an airline” lol. There’s no argument from him because he’s already right. It is the way it is and any argument or example for why it’s ridiculous comes right back to “well they’re an airline

Exactly! We look at the law and we follow it!

Guys like you want to make up reasons that the law doesn’t say what it says or mean what it means and pretend like you don’t sound silly.

There’s a reason why these arguments are being made on an internet message board by truckers and not in a courtroom by lawyers.

 

[yadig]

Exactly! We look at the law and we follow it!

Guys like you want to make up reasons that the law doesn’t say what it says or mean what it means and pretend like you don’t sound silly.

There’s a reason why these arguments are being made on an internet message board by truckers and not in a courtroom by lawyers.

A union is the least of FedEx’s problems!

 

[Bald1der]

They do not separate the express and ground packages in their station network. A single driver delivers and picks up all service levels. Exceptions to this would be a package car delivering or picking up overnight services while the rest is picked up or delivered by trailer swap or bulk van.

In their hub network, all packages of all service levels that can make it to a destination while still meeting commitment will travel on the same trailer. For example, regional trailer runs say Philly to Pittsburgh will carry their equivalent of P1 through smartpost daily.

There is a position called Air Express Driver, which is part time and just does late pickups and dropboxes from 5 to 8:15ish. The pay rate is dismal, actually less than part time express courier.

I don't know why DriveIn tagged my post as creative. I worked there for 8 years.

 

[Aquaman]

Exactly! We look at the law and we follow it!

Guys like you want to make up reasons that the law doesn’t say what it says or mean what it means and pretend like you don’t sound silly.

There’s a reason why these arguments are being made on an internet message board by truckers and not in a courtroom by lawyers.

I think there are quite a few reasons lawyers aren’t arguing against it. You can’t deny FedEx spends money to keep things from changing. Nothing speaks louder than money. And just because a law is a law doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to change or be adjusted. Things should always be periodically reviewed to make sure things still make sense. Your way of thinking about it is kind of ridiculous. In my opinion in 2022, Express is an airline that services it’s trucking department. If I pickup 22 heavyweight pieces with only 3 of them being fly freight… how is it logical for me to be considered an airline employee. Oh wait I know the answer, because I am.

 

[59 Dano]

I think there are quite a few reasons lawyers aren’t arguing against it. You can’t deny FedEx spends money to keep things from changing. Nothing speaks louder than money. And just because a law is a law doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to change or be adjusted. Things should always be periodically reviewed to make sure things still make sense. Your way of thinking about it is kind of ridiculous.

My way of thinking is that a company that transports millions of pieces of freight by air, daily, using one of the world's largest air fleets, is an airline.

In my opinion in 2022, Express is an airline that services it’s trucking department.

Imagine that, a guy who drives a truck who has a self-serving interest in reclassification thinks (such as he does) that Express is a trucking department with some planes that help it out.

Let's try this instead. When did Express stop being an airline?

 

[floridays]

Let's try this instead. When did Express stop being an airline?

To a logical thinker at the airport.