UnconTROLLed
perfection
Most communists were against a transition with limited government through state socialism, for the exact reasons it failed so badly
Fascism
- Thread starter rickyb
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zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
I think all these terms have been so over used, misused and co-opted, that the meaning of each is somewhat unclear. What I think of when people say communism is clearly not the same as philosophical communism. The problem with philosophical ("true") communism is that the only people who would fight to bring it into being would never actually allow true communism to exist, not that the system itself could ever work anyway.
Real communism is more akin to anarchy, which opposes government. But the problem with a lack of government is who decides what anyone's "fair share" is, and without a concerted effort to maintain communism, it is inevitable that a despot will take advantage of, particularly, young men who think they are shouldering most of the burden, and not getting what they deserve, by organizing them into a military force to seize control.
Political communism is about complete government control, which clearly is not the definition of philosophical communism, but is always where it ends up. The epitome of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
That is what I tried to say in the last post. There were different factions of communism, some wanted immediate transition because they knew that an interim limited state would regress into a big state. Kropotkin for example.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Furthermore socialism is really an economic structure that requires a high degree of government control in order to function.
My understanding is that fascism is another form of authoritarian government where the needs of the state are elevated above the needs of the citizenry. Calling it a "right-wing" form of government goes against my understanding of what right-wing vs left-wing means.
My understanding is that on the far right of the government structures spectrum you have anarchy, no government whatsoever, and on the far left you have totalitarianism, complete government control. Many people conflate this with conservative vs liberal, which is a different spectrum all together.
My understanding is that fascism is another form of authoritarian government where the needs of the state are elevated above the needs of the citizenry. Calling it a "right-wing" form of government goes against my understanding of what right-wing vs left-wing means.
My understanding is that on the far right of the government structures spectrum you have anarchy, no government whatsoever, and on the far left you have totalitarianism, complete government control. Many people conflate this with conservative vs liberal, which is a different spectrum all together.
Had a discussion years ago with a co-worker who was shocked to hear that Communism is the most Left on the political scale. In her mind anything authoritarian had to be on the right.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
The lack of agreement on what these terms mean leads to misunderstanding in the political discourse. I believe most people agree with others on a lot more things than they think. It's just a matter of sorting out vocabulary.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
Yeah, I used to think all conservatives were for limited government too.
And he and his wife ended up strung up like pigs. The problem with any authoritarian regime is eventually it's about their power, their prestige, their wealth, not the people's. The exception might be Marshal Tito, who actually worked hard to make Yugoslavia prosper, but it fell apart anyways due to ethnic and religious divides.
democrats sold out workers starting with clinton. they started taking corporate dollars like republicans.
sounds like the american system.
Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
I agree with her somewhat ... the more centralized and authoritarian, the worse the government is! Communism is the worst form of government I know of.
The DemWits scare me with their authoritarian and centralized views.
youre all in favor of authoritarian and centralized views as long as its capitalism
no it doesnt. we want worker control, decentralized
Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
Do you ever get tired of looking stupid and ignorant?
Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
You don't want Socialism then ... but you can't understand.
Socialism doesn't go far enough for Ricky. He won't be happy until Bernie openly splits with the capitalist dogs and takes him on a second honeymoon to a commune in Russia where they'll plant vegetables on their little plots by day and cry out for the return of Stalin by night.
Most devout commie in the group gets a backstage pass for a candlelit dinner with Chris Hedges on his Russia Today set.
El Correcto
god is dead
No way that’s the funnest part of discussing politics.
whatever
when bernie first announced in 2015, worker control was on teh platform and i made a thread on BC about it.
you need to stop rubbing PB on your shoes