FedEx contractor revolt?

[59 Dano]

Unless you don’t understand anything about this business and the direction it’s going, you would understand no matter the initial cost it’s paramount for the future of the company.
Twenty stops on one street , 150 in a neighborhood , pickups , 9hours. Full uniform, quality employees , top pay and benefits. No contractor hassle. DONE

Yeah, it sounds great if you ignore the money aspects of it.

 

[Gone fishin]

Yeah, it sounds great if you ignore the money aspects of it.

Money comes and goes , Warren Buffett has declared bankruptcy. He understands the runs of business

 

[Gone fishin]

Because that's exactly the same as a delivery business hiring up people who currently work for third party contractors. Because employees are an evolving technology.

Exactly , but also Blockbuster. Evolve and stay relevant

 

[bacha29]

Cincinnati bell went to internet and cell phones because no one has land lines anymore. Businesses have to adjust to compete. It would hurt early but in years to come your company is stronger

Verizon wants to get out of the wired line business in the rural parts of my state. The state however won't permit it because their cell , mobile and internet service quality runs from unreliable to completely nonexistent . Sort of like FDX Ground.

The problem guys with FDX Ground is that it's a damn poor setup to begin with . Dan Sullivan created an entity he called "contractors' to be somebody upon whom he could dump and much risk, liability and variable costs. In addition he expected him to haul it for nothing. Later on, Fat Freddy in order to try to stay one step ahead of the courts and the law created the multi route scale requirements which in addition to hauling his junk for nothing the contractor now had to go out and find somebody to work for nothing.

The system was never designed to be what it is today. It could do a decent job provided that it stayed within the narrow market parameters it was designed for. It was NEVER designed to be a a multi market, multi services 7 day a week operation and they're starting to discover now that it will never be able to do all that. It's a system that is too fragile, too inconsistent too vulnerable and in too many markets.

Last week CNBC had a discussion about truck transportation. The CEO's of the several trucking companies all said that their pricing power is now driven by their companies timeliness and reliability.

Timeliness and reliability are likely places where Ground will continue to fall farther and farther behind and to think that despite those failings Fat Freddy expects it now to haul air box. Wonder if dementia is catching up with old Fat Freddy

In the meantime contractors should only do the minimum, don't be a hero in an effort to save a transportation network doomed to failure by means of it's own systematic deficiencies which remain unaddressed and unresolved.

 

[bbsam]

Verizon wants to get out of the wired line business in the rural parts of my state. The state however won't permit it because their cell , mobile and internet service quality runs from unreliable to completely nonexistent . Sort of like FDX Ground.

The problem guys with FDX Ground is that it's a damn poor setup to begin with . Dan Sullivan created an entity he called "contractors' to be somebody upon whom he could dump and much risk, liability and variable costs. In addition he expected him to haul it for nothing. Later on, Fat Freddy in order to try to stay one step ahead of the courts and the law created the multi route scale requirements which in addition to hauling his junk for nothing the contractor now had to go out and find somebody to work for nothing.

The system was never designed to be what it is today. It could do a decent job provided that it stayed within the narrow market parameters it was designed for. It was NEVER designed to be a a multi market, multi services 7 day a week operation and they're starting to discover now that it will never be able to do all that. It's a system that is too fragile, too inconsistent too vulnerable and in too many markets.

Last week CNBC had a discussion about truck transportation. The CEO's of the several trucking companies all said that their pricing power is now driven by their companies timeliness and reliability.

Timeliness and reliability are likely places where Ground will continue to fall farther and farther behind and to think that despite those failings Fat Freddy expects it now to haul air box. Wonder if dementia is catching up with old Fat Freddy

In the meantime contractors should only do the minimum, don't be a hero in an effort to save a transportation network doomed to failure by means of it's own systematic deficiencies which remain unaddressed and unresolved.

Don’t kid yourself. They could fix the model tomorrow if they wanted to. Only thing in the way is a group of huge egos at the top.

 

[Gone fishin]

Verizon wants to get out of the wired line business in the rural parts of my state. The state however won't permit it because their cell , mobile and internet service quality runs from unreliable to completely nonexistent . Sort of like FDX Ground.

The problem guys with FDX Ground is that it's a damn poor setup to begin with . Dan Sullivan created an entity he called "contractors' to be somebody upon whom he could dump and much risk, liability and variable costs. In addition he expected him to haul it for nothing. Later on, Fat Freddy in order to try to stay one step ahead of the courts and the law created the multi route scale requirements which in addition to hauling his junk for nothing the contractor now had to go out and find somebody to work for nothing.

The system was never designed to be what it is today. It could do a decent job provided that it stayed within the narrow market parameters it was designed for. It was NEVER designed to be a a multi market, multi services 7 day a week operation and they're starting to discover now that it will never be able to do all that. It's a system that is too fragile, too inconsistent too vulnerable and in too many markets.

Last week CNBC had a discussion about truck transportation. The CEO's of the several trucking companies all said that their pricing power is now driven by their companies timeliness and reliability.

Timeliness and reliability are likely places where Ground will continue to fall farther and farther behind and to think that despite those failings Fat Freddy expects it now to haul air box. Wonder if dementia is catching up with old Fat Freddy

In the meantime contractors should only do the minimum, don't be a hero in an effort to save a transportation network doomed to failure by means of it's own systematic deficiencies which remain unaddressed and unresolved.

Absolutely , ground has run its course.

 

[yadig]

Yeah, it sounds great if you ignore the money aspects of it.

Depends on how much money we’re talking here. It sounds like the contractors are wanting more and you know the underpaid courier wants a raise. What’s the answer?

 

[bacha29]

Don’t kid yourself. They could fix the model tomorrow if they wanted to. Only thing in the way is a group of huge egos at the top.

The ground system has been operating for 37 years which given it's crude design is well past it's expected life span .

You simply cannot ignore the possibility that there are people on the board of directors especially the new ones who realize that fact and are coming to the conclusion that it can't be fixed no matter how much money you throw at it.

And the reason you have to consider that possibility is the fact that Fat's and Raj were forced by the new directors and DE Shaw to restrict cap x spending to a formula based on operating margins. No bucks...No Buck Rogers. This in turn means that they can't throw money around building whatever they want and buying whatever they want whenever they want it.

And the bucks are going to come right off of contractors and those who are still out there hauling for Fat's and plan on continuing to do so might as well get used to it. And when you consider the fact that Johnny Dollar Sign has made no movement to resolve the matter it would appear that senior executives are going to take that chance and try to post significantly improved margins even if it runs the risk of a peak season melt down. Then again...it's happened before.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Would the possibility of a UPS strike help or hurt fedex ground?

 

[bacha29]

Would the possibility of a UPS strike help or hurt fedex ground?

In the 1997 strike Roadway package System was still around. RPS shippers were limited to volume plus 10% No new accounts were supposed to be signed up but I'm sure a few got added. If there's a UPS strike next year and given that RPS is now Fedex Ground I'm sure they'll take on as many high margin accounts they can absorb but will not take those accounts that would just go back to UPS when the strike is over. In that case FXG would just be doing UPS a favor.

 

[bbsam]

The ground system has been operating for 37 years which given it's crude design is well past it's expected life span .

You simply cannot ignore the possibility that there are people on the board of directors especially the new ones who realize that fact and are coming to the conclusion that it can't be fixed no matter how much money you throw at it.

And the reason you have to consider that possibility is the fact that Fat's and Raj were forced by the new directors and DE Shaw to restrict cap x spending to a formula based on operating margins. No bucks...No Buck Rogers. This in turn means that they can't throw money around building whatever they want and buying whatever they want whenever they want it.

And the bucks are going to come right off of contractors and those who are still out there hauling for Fat's and plan on continuing to do so might as well get used to it. And when you consider the fact that Johnny Dollar Sign has made no movement to resolve the matter it would appear that senior executives are going to take that chance and try to post significantly improved margins even if it runs the risk of a peak season melt down. Then again...it's happened before.

That’s all we’ll and good. But you simply don’t grasp how things have changed since “it happened before”.

They’ve gone to that well one too many times. They will get the minimum and nothing more and that won’t cover the ever increasing number of failed and walking contractors. They’ve already blown a huge hole in the money set aside for contingency.

FedEx legal sent Spencer a “cease and desist” letter. It’s been ignored. Laughed at actually.

Leaked internal memos show that company talking points include reassuring Wall Street that they have enough contingency teams should contractors band together. They don’t. They don’t have enough to cover what sits today in the middle of August.

There is no way FedEx gets out of this cheap. Threats and intimidation stopped working a long time ago. It doesn’t matter how impressed you are with them or what cute nicknames you give them. A very sizable number of contractors are no longer listening to Pittsburgh. They’ve been full of crap and everybody knows it.

So if they aren’t listening to Raj and John, who do you think they’re listening to?

 

[bacha29]

That’s all we’ll and good. But you simply don’t grasp how things have changed since “it happened before”.

They’ve gone to that well one too many times. They will get the minimum and nothing more and that won’t cover the ever increasing number of failed and walking contractors. They’ve already blown a huge hole in the money set aside for contingency.

FedEx legal sent Spencer a “cease and desist” letter. It’s been ignored. Laughed at actually.

Leaked internal memos show that company talking points include reassuring Wall Street that they have enough contingency teams should contractors band together. They don’t. They don’t have enough to cover what sits today in the middle of August.

There is no way FedEx gets out of this cheap. Threats and intimidation stopped working a long time ago. It doesn’t matter how impressed you are with them or what cute nicknames you give them. A very sizable number of contractors are no longer listening to Pittsburgh. They’ve been full of crap and everybody knows it.

So if they aren’t listening to Raj and John, who do you think they’re listening to?

Actions speak louder than words. Right now you guys are putting everything you've got on a single contractor who by his own admission is completely powerless only thinking about himself and will again by his own admission do what he thinks needs done in accordance with his own self interest. He doesn't care what the rest of you do.

More than a decade ago when you had the primary employer case I'm pretty darn sure that the federal judge stated that he was of the opinion that FXG contractors can form their own bargaining unit. Somebody should look into that to see if it will give you sufficient legal standing to form your own unit and one that FXG has to recognize. Even if there is a case to litigate just where are you going to get the money? If there is no punitive or compensatory damage award in play it means qualified legal representation will have to be paid by the hour. And if you lose in court which is the only place where you might get what you want if you lose you pay the court costs.

I would be the first to congratulate you guys if you were somehow able to create a balanced operating agreement but you're going to have to be willing to go to the mat in the form of a long sustained system wide suspension of service as well as winning a long succession of bitter, years long courtroom victories.


If the network completely collapses around you resulting in a cessation of operations that just the risk you agreed to take.

There will be NO simple, easy or inexpensive way for you guys to prevail and you're not even close to be prepared for the counter punches FXG has ready to slug you with. And the knockout punch will be the successful lawsuit they file against every single contractor claiming breach of contract.

 

[bbsam]

There will be NO simple, easy or inexpensive way for you guys to prevail and you're not even close to be prepared for the counter punches FXG has ready to slug you with. And the knockout punch will be the successful lawsuit they file against every single contractor claiming breach of contract.

Failing is a breach of contract. Also in that contract is a remedy for the company. They are allowed to terminate the agreement.

So if it’s not economically viable for contractors to provide the contracted service, they are free to find someone who can. At current rates, they aren’t finding those providers.

Tell me why you think contractors would care if X terminates 2000 agreements?

 

[bacha29]

Failing is a breach of contract. Also in that contract is a remedy for the company. They are allowed to terminate the agreement.

So if it’s not economically viable for contractors to provide the contracted service, they are free to find someone who can. At current rates, they aren’t finding those providers.

Tell me why you think contractors would care if X terminates 2000 agreements?

If FXG sues the 2000 for breach of contractor and wins which would they would be likely to do and gave the 2000 24 hours to return to work , out of those 2000 I bet at least 1300 of them would be back the next day. And even Patton himself admitted that there wouldn't be a suspension of service. So what does Johnny Dollar Sign have to worry about ?

So what's going to come out of Vegas? A lot of noise, a lot of bravado....but nothing more. Why? because you have no organization, no direction, probably no legal standing..... and worst of all no money.

In the face of all that just what do you think you can accomplish and how are you going to do it?

 

[bbsam]

If the network completely collapses around you resulting in a cessation of operations that just the risk you agreed to take.

Have you been paying any attention in the last six months? That’s not a problem. That’s one of the preferred outcomes for a large number of contractors. The only outcome that is not acceptable is the continued downward spiral.

 

[bbsam]

If FXG sues the 2000 for breach of contractor and wins which would they would be likely to do and gave the 2000 24 hours to return to work , out of those 2000 I bet at least 1300 of them would be back the next day. And even Patton himself admitted that there wouldn't be a suspension of service. So what does Johnny Dollar Sign have to worry about ?

So what's going to come out of Vegas? A lot of noise, a lot of bravado....but nothing more. Why? because you have no organization, no direction, probably no legal standing..... and worst of all no money.

In the face of all that just what do you think you can accomplish and how are you going to do it?

It’s in the contract. There is no lawsuit. Contractors fail. Company pulls agreement and moves on to the next contractor candidate.

Lol. How will I accomplish failure? Let me count the ways! Hookers and blow are off the table because of family concerns. Beyond that, I can’t think of anything preventing my failure.

And you’re allowing for 700 contractors to tell them to pound sand? On a conservative guess that’s about 7000 routes? Damn bacha. They simply can’t absorb that mess. The district loses
their shorts if 20 stops don’t leave the building these days.

 

[bacha29]

Have you been paying any attention in the last six months? That’s not a problem. That’s one of the preferred outcomes for a large number of contractors. The only outcome that is not acceptable is the continued downward spiral.

If there is a cessation of operations, their contracts would be worth zero (there goes their retirement) and all they've got is a bunch of worn out panel vans and sandwich trucks at a time when used vehicle prices are tanking and used lots are filling up rapidly.

Is that what you want to see happen?

 

[bbsam]

If there is a cessation of operations, their contracts would be worth zero (there goes their retirement) and all they've got is a bunch of worn out panel vans and sandwich trucks at a time when used vehicle prices are tanking and used lots are filling up rapidly.

Is that what you want to see happen?

That is far better than what is currently happening, yes. I think we’ve been over this before.

 

[bacha29]

That is far better than what is currently happening, yes. I think we’ve been over this before.

So what you're saying is that you are completely capable of absorbing the economic loss that a contract termination or complete cessation of operations finding your trucks pulled out of the terminal and parked out along the road with a termination notice stamped to the windshield? If so then you are among the fortunate few...the very very few.

 

[59 Dano]

Absolutely , ground has run its course.

ROTFLMAO