For the 'Vote NO On Everything' crowd...what would you call a good contract?

[stink219]

also, do you think it would be unfair for all empoyees, part time and full time to share in the wealth. even mangers should benefit. everyone of us had something to do with the profits this company enjoys.

Some argue that owning stock is just that.

surepost is the same as subcontracting. should be eliminated.

I hate it too brother. But how can you expect ups to remain competitive when other companies offer the same cheap service?

i think partimers should get at least $12 an hr to start. they should get at least $18 an hr after 2 years. full timers should get a dollar raise minimum a year.

I agree with your progression to 18 but due to major turnover of PT's, I think 10 is reasonable.

health care should not change. benefits and pensions should increase on scale similar to profits. ( better than inflation )

Valid

what really gets me is that we hourlies are expected to follow all these rules or face discipline up to and including discharge but the same standard is not held to management. they skirt all around or downright ignore the contract at every turn without consequence.

Help your stewards enforce. We can't see everything.

 

[didyousheetit]

You didn't start at this wage.

If you were there in the 80's, you started at 16-19/hr. If you started in the 90's, then it was $12-15/hr. Only people hired after 2000 started at anything like the 8.50 of today.

Hazing gets more extreme the longer it goes, as each group puffs up what they think they went through. You think it's fine because people are getting weeded out at half the wage you got, or less.

By the way, these people who leave after a year or two or three when they can find a better job? They weren't ants to be pissed on. They were supposed to be brothers, and the next generation who will help pay for your pension.

*When I say 'you,' I mean it in the general sense, not you personally.

I started in 1984 on preload at 8.00 an hour in the unload then after two weeks went on a three car pull with a dollar an hour raise. But yes it did progress very fast I was on preload for three years when I left for full time I think I was at 12.00 or so

 

[stink219]

Once again my point of the progression that matters most. Not starting pay.

 

[wilberforce15]

I started in 1984 on preload at 8.00 an hour in the unload then after two weeks went on a three car pull with a dollar an hour raise. But yes it did progress very fast I was on preload for three years when I left for full time I think I was at 12.00 or so

I really don't know how I can be much more clear. You didn't start in 1984 at $8.00 per hour.

You started in 1984 at almost $18/hr. That's what $8.00 in 1984 is worth day, adjusting for inflation.

Didyousheet it, you got paid more on your first day on the job than many current employees with more than 8 or 10 years of service.

Once again my point of the progression that matters most. Not starting pay.

HE STARTED AT $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

How can you possibly look at someone whose first day on the job leapfrogged a current new guy by a decade, and tell me it doesn't matter? He started with almost decade of PT seniority, if you want to look at it like that.

 

[brownmonster]

I really don't know how I can be much more clear. You didn't start in 1984 at $8.00 per hour.

You started in 1984 at almost $18/hr. That's what $8.00 in 1984 is worth day, adjusting for inflation.

Didyousheet it, you got paid more on your first day on the job than many current employees with more than 8 or 10 years of service.



HE STARTED AT $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

How can you possibly look at someone whose first day on the job leapfrogged a current new guy by a decade, and tell me it doesn't matter? He started with almost decade of PT seniority, if you want to look at it like that.

You're going to drive yourself freakinbananas.

 

[hyena]

You didn't start at this wage.
Yes I did I started at 8.50 an hour
If you were there in the 80's, you started at 16-19/hr. If you started in the 90's, then it was $12-15/hr. Only people hired after 2000 started at anything like the 8.50 of today.

Hazing gets more extreme the longer it goes, as each group puffs up what they think they went through. You think it's fine because people are getting weeded out at half the wage you got, or less.

By the way, these people who leave after a year or two or three when they can find a better job? They weren't ants to be pissed on. They were supposed to be brothers, and the next generation who will help pay for your pension.

*When I say 'you,' I mean it in the general sense, not you personally.

Yes I started at 8.50 an hour. Im just saying the union said raising the part time pay rate was a priority of the contract. What do we ( current employees) have to lose for this? Is it healtcare costs? I mean if the union is stressing they want this so bad then the company is gonna say ok so we give you an increase in starting pay rates. So now we want the members to start paying for healtcare or something to that extent.

 

[Brownslave688]

Yes I started at 8.50 an hour. Im just saying the union said raising the part time pay rate was a priority of the contract. What do we ( current employees) have to lose for this? Is it healtcare costs? I mean if the union is stressing they want this so bad then the company is gonna say ok so we give you an increase in starting pay rates. So now we want the members to start paying for healtcare or something to that extent.

And then we vote it down. Why do we have to give something up? When full time drivers progression is figured every contract it goes up. That's essentially their starting pay. We don't give anything up its just expected. As are raises. Why shouldn't part timers pay go up every contract?

i was only part time 20 months before I went full time. I'm text book someone who shouldn't care but I know plenty of people with 15+ years in that can't go full time yet. I agree that progression is more important than starting wage. However 8.50 is a freaking joke. When potential employees see 8.50 starting pay a large number of good prospects won't even take a second glance.

 

[soberups]

I will agree that a substantial raise for PT employees needs to be our #1 priority.

I would personally be happy with a straight COLA for FT employees, with all additional raises being given to part timers. It is asinine to expect someone to join a union and pay dues for a minimum-wage job with no benefits for the first year.

 

[ocnewguy]

I will agree that a substantial raise for PT employees needs to be our #1 priority.

I would personally be happy with a straight COLA for FT employees, with all additional raises being given to part timers. It is asinine to expect someone to join a union and pay dues for a minimum-wage job with no benefits for the first year.

and the way things are looking, said benefits probably being inferior to just staying on your parents plan (for those of us 26 and under)

 

[3 done 3 to go]

We are sold out. Rumor is 2$ an hr raise. PT will pass it no matter. They won't read the rest. Little change for FT.

 

[Brownslave688]

We are sold out. Rumor is 2$ an hr raise. PT will pass it no matter. They won't read the rest. Little change for FT.

Since when have PT passed anything? What do u mean little change for FT?

 

[Asskicker]

Where are you getting your info Freekinbananas? I started in the 80s at $8.00 an hour. That starting wage has only gone up .50 in thirty years. So I'm curious to know in what part of the country UPS was hiring people in the 90s at $16/$19 an hour. Check your facts because you are totally off.

 

[Inthegame]

and the way things are looking, said benefits probably being inferior to just staying on your parents plan (for those of us 26 and under)

Rumor is you won't be under 26 forever...just a rumor though...not sure of the source, probably another TDU ruse.

 

[stink219]

and the way things are looking, said benefits probably being inferior to just staying on your parents plan (for those of us 26 and under)

Rumor is you won't be under 26 forever...just a rumor though...not sure of the source, probably another TDU ruse.

I actually laughed out loud! That was funny!!

 

[Dracula]

I have 26 years in with this company, and your statement about "every contract gets worse" is a load of crap. When I started, there was no 9.5 language at all. When I started, we didnt have 8 hr requests. When I started, my hourly wage was half of what it is today and pension contributions were less than a third of what they are today. When I started, there was no penalty pay for the company's refusal to correct payroll errors or pay grievance settlements in a timely manner.

Blaming "overpaid fat Business Agents and organizers" for failing to collect more than 50,000 signatures on a petition is also a steaming load of crap. How many of those 235,000 Teamsters can even be counted on to show up at a union meeting or to vote on a contract offer in the first place? Do you really think that the number of signatures on a petition will have any meaningful effect on the manner in which the company conducts its contract negotiations? Any work group can vote its Business Agent out of office if that group feels that he isnt doing his job adequately, so who really is to blame when a BA or an organizer isnt earning his pay?

Can't argue with your second paragraph, but as far as your first paragraph: what good does having ANY language in the contract about 9.5 unless it is enforced? And I started preloading in 1984, and I used to always adjust loads for 8HR days.

 

[Dracula]

I really don't know how I can be much more clear. You didn't start in 1984 at $8.00 per hour.

You started in 1984 at almost $18/hr. That's what $8.00 in 1984 is worth day, adjusting for inflation.

Didyousheet it, you got paid more on your first day on the job than many current employees with more than 8 or 10 years of service.



HE STARTED AT $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

He started at $18/hr.

How can you possibly look at someone whose first day on the job leapfrogged a current new guy by a decade, and tell me it doesn't matter? He started with almost decade of PT seniority, if you want to look at it like that.

I've said this before, but PT's blaming FT's is just scapegoating. UPS has many more PT's than FT's. Read that again. So when a ballot arrives in a PTer's mailbox, it is up to that PTer to cast his or her ballot. If all PT's voted, they could virtually control the outcome of the contract. But they don't. Maybe your anger should be directed at your stewards, or the closest mirror.

 

[Brownslave688]

Where are you getting your info Freekinbananas? I started in the 80s at $8.00 an hour. That starting wage has only gone up .50 in thirty years. So I'm curious to know in what part of the country UPS was hiring people in the 90s at $16/$19 an hour. Check your facts because you are totally off.

U don't understand inflation?

He's saying to buy the same amount of goods that you purchased with your $8 an hour back then part timers would need to make at least $20 an hour now.

 

[wilberforce15]

He's saying to buy the same amount of goods that you purchased with your $8 an hour back then part timers would need to make at least $20 an hour now.

Yes! Maybe coming from someone else, it will sink in for them.

The funny thing is, if I came in here and said I will vote 'no' on any contract with less than $19/hr starting pay, you all would say I was nuts.

You'd say it would kill the company. You'd say it was completely unreasonable to get that pay for part-time work. You'd say you need to pay your dues (literally and figuratively) for a while before you deserve that much.

And that message would be coming from the guys who started at that rate or something close to it (guys from the 80's or early 90's).

Simply a cost-of-living adjustment to your $8.00 would yield a current starting pay of around $19. Shoot, I'd be ecstatic if starting pay moved anywhere upwards, but it wouldn't actually be an increase in the big scheme of things. It would be a partial fix for a 30 year decline in starting wage.

 

[hyena]

Freakinbannanas and browns lave 688 you guys do have some good points

 

[hyena]

We are sold out. Rumor is 2$ an hr raise. PT will pass it no matter. They won't read the rest. Little change for FT.

I for one would welcome a two dollar raise however my vote will not be decided by just that. And I'll be sure to let others know how I feel about the tentative agreement after I read it!