Whatbrownwontdoforyou
Well-Known Member
In this last contract they added that we are allowed to split 1 week into days but it has to be picked with vacation not spontaneous
Forcing Thanksgiving Holiday Work Is The Beginning Of The End
- Thread starter olroadbeech
- Start date
Whatbrownwontdoforyou
Well-Known Member
That's in our supplement
HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
WOW
DUDE, AM I MISSING SOMETHING
no contract language in any supplement requiring working on holidays ?????
You are not required to work BUT IF THEY DO REQUIRE YOU to work that holiday, then the language in the contract above says they can make you and it provides the pay scale.
As long as they follow seniority procedure in granting the day off, they are following the language perfectly.
Tell me Union Brother, you going to walk in to the center manager's office and actually drop a grievance form to grieve that you don't want to work.
That's not what the Union is about nor what the Teamsters represent !!! If you're serious, then I feel soooooooo bad for you.
The New England supplement I am under and my Local back what UPS has asked for.
Don't act like there is some kind of conspiracy.
HULKAMANIA
Well-Known Member
The fact that you are not required to work but if you are is where the contradiction comes into play. This is why there are so many people upset about it and rightfully so. Every driver needs to band together and say no we aren't going in. They won't do us any favors the next Monday. They will be back to cutting routes and being stupid. It's not right no matter how you slice it how this took place. The ibt did nothing but collect union dues and sell us down the river again. Enough is enough.
As many have stated job creation was a major accomplishment in the contract and here we are and the company is finding ways to go around it. Brag about the pay all you want it's the principle of the thing. It wasn't right period.
As many have stated job creation was a major accomplishment in the contract and here we are and the company is finding ways to go around it. Brag about the pay all you want it's the principle of the thing. It wasn't right period.
The
Relax Sandy, I was just answering the posters question. I'd prefer nobody work that day, including FedEx.
Are you related to TOS...you seem to use lots of words.
you do have a contract book right? read it...
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Yes, you are missing it.
Key words:
A regular seniority employee shall not be required to work on the
following eight (8) named holidays.
In what context is this sentence relevant if not taken literally? Why is it the lead sentence for an Article titled Holidays if the company has the right to work us any holiday for a premium pay rate?
Except as otherwise provided in this Agreement (you eliminated this condition and took the rest out of context).
Article 40 of the National Master is the only place working a holiday is "otherwise provided for". It's also where it's provide for the company to pay less than premium pay for "air support" personnel during these holiday operations.
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brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
We chose to have a week split at the time we pick our vacations. The single days are then picked at our discretion throughout the year based on seniority.
SandBagger
Active Member
-Bug-[/quote]
No - I doubt you are missing anything. Good possibility you're in opposition to acknowledgement of the facts though.
I'll be a gentleman and refrain from public examination of your possible motives. I do think your jab about "some kind of conspiracy" says more about your intentions than you realize El Heffe.
As for "what the union is about"...Well I think your view is myopic and unrealistic. The union is about different things in different places. Reading here in this forum should readily reveal that to anyone with a high school education or better.
In your region there may be a strong sense of fellowship and comradery. Not so much in other regions, and in still others there is none at all.
Don't overestimate your clout my friend, and woe to you if you trust blindly in anyone when the almighty dollar is involved. Especially your union employees (you do pay their salaries, right) or your corporate task masters.
What I think you need to focus more closely upon is the word "required". If you won the right through strike or negotiation to a PAID DAY OFF, then you cannot be REQUIRED to work that day unless it is specifically stated in the language. You still haven't shown that specific language as it relates to ground operations. I beg you, please produce it in any supplement or master.
Work if you like. That's your right. Just don't come here or to the job and try to cow your brothers into working. They earned the day off, and it belongs to them, not you. Their decision has nothing to do with you, nor should it.
No - I doubt you are missing anything. Good possibility you're in opposition to acknowledgement of the facts though.
I'll be a gentleman and refrain from public examination of your possible motives. I do think your jab about "some kind of conspiracy" says more about your intentions than you realize El Heffe.
As for "what the union is about"...Well I think your view is myopic and unrealistic. The union is about different things in different places. Reading here in this forum should readily reveal that to anyone with a high school education or better.
In your region there may be a strong sense of fellowship and comradery. Not so much in other regions, and in still others there is none at all.
Don't overestimate your clout my friend, and woe to you if you trust blindly in anyone when the almighty dollar is involved. Especially your union employees (you do pay their salaries, right) or your corporate task masters.
What I think you need to focus more closely upon is the word "required". If you won the right through strike or negotiation to a PAID DAY OFF, then you cannot be REQUIRED to work that day unless it is specifically stated in the language. You still haven't shown that specific language as it relates to ground operations. I beg you, please produce it in any supplement or master.
Work if you like. That's your right. Just don't come here or to the job and try to cow your brothers into working. They earned the day off, and it belongs to them, not you. Their decision has nothing to do with you, nor should it.
Upon further review the touchdown appears to be a fumble, picked up and returned by El Heffe.
Speaking of inaccurate and misleading legalese, and as the new lawyer on BC, you should know that Jimmy Jr is inaccurate as James P Hoffa's middle name would need to be Riddle not Phillip in order to be a Jr. Also the CRT calls holidays "named" not legal. Hate to nitpick but lack of clarity can get us off track.
On to the show... UPS has management rights to operate whenever they deem it necessary without input from the IBT (excepting Labor Day) and Teamsters are the bargaining unit that provides that service.
A more clearly worded Art 15 Sec 1 would read "A regular seniority employee shall not be required to work on the following eight (8) named holidays and receive pay..."
Unfortunately it is a bit ambiguous but that ambiguity is clarified in Sec 4, but it does not say you'll never work on a holiday. By reading the first two paragraphs of Sec 1 in their entirety demonstrates the conditions needed to be met in order to receive pay if you don't work. That is really all Sec 1 refers to. Read it again very carefully.
Sec 4's existence would be unnecessary if there was no allowance to work on a holiday.
Both these Sections have been in the CRT at least since 1973.
Happy Thanksgiving
HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
When Section 1 says you are not required to work on those holidays, it in basic terms means everyone starts with the day off plus pay.
That's when Section 4 comes in and says IF UPS REQUIRES YOU TO WORK, then the terms and pay rate of you being forced in are clearly written.
The first section is misleading the way it is written, no doubt. That is the reason everyone is confused. I'm just a driver following orders from UPS and my Union. I'm not being mislead.
That's when Section 4 comes in and says IF UPS REQUIRES YOU TO WORK, then the terms and pay rate of you being forced in are clearly written.
The first section is misleading the way it is written, no doubt. That is the reason everyone is confused. I'm just a driver following orders from UPS and my Union. I'm not being mislead.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Perhaps I will just take off Christmas Eve "in lieu of" the Friday after Thanksgiving?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Your employer and union both agreed to the change.
Whatbrownwontdoforyou
Well-Known Member
Hopefully it will be the same for us....but being the vacations were picked before contract settled the didn't let us last year
SandBagger
Active Member
Am I glad you hate to nit-pik. Imagine the thorn in the side you could be with a little ambition.
Best you debate the name game with nationally acclaimed authors. They call him Jimmy Jr. , as likely do family members. Guess you're neither.
Here's a quick link to get you started. There are plenty of others to choose from.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/matthew-vadum/union-gangsters-jimmy-hoffa-jr/
Kind of you to start with a distraction though...Guess you wanted to get right to the point for the sake of clarity, right?
Now let's discuss reading comprehension, shall we. While I am not at present looking directly at your CRT, I did pull the Atlantic Area Supplement from the stack at random and see it says, a) The following named holidays, or the days observed as such shall be recognized as legal holidays:
Wanna bet the CRT says the same? Report back to me on that, would ya?
Given your propensity to engage in ambiguity and feckless debate, I will forego further discussion of your keen observations concerning the Article 15 - Sec.1 and 4. I think that has been satisfactorily explained by another poster already anyway.
Your interpretation is only parroting of the party line. It will not stand the test of law. As a matter of fact, the entire posture of the union and the company on this issue reeks of collusion and stands as illogical and counterintuitive.
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.
SandBagger
Active Member
Most salient point, but are you getting the deeper meaning?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
You mean the fact that e-commerce has changed the way that we do business, something that both the Company and Union understand?
When you go to work this morning ask your center manager and on-car if they want to be there on Black Friday.
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