U
uber
Guest
I'm a driver and I happen to agree with FreakinBanana's and Bagels point of view on this.
From a part timer to all the full timers:
- Thread starter rellek
- Start date
WESLA
It is what it is
Like I said in another thread !!!
YOU HAVE A PT JOB !!!! WITH BENEFITS NO OTHER PT JOB YOU CAN FIND HAS !!!!!!!!!!!!
Part Timers sacrifice " no doubt because I did " !!!! BUT If you do any job for 3 1/2 hours a day and are getting the same benefits as the guy that works 11 hours in his/her truck !!
AND YOU FN COMPLAIN BECAUSE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO PAY EXTRA IN CO-PAY
GET A FULL TIME JOB!!!!!!!
If you are WAITING for a Full Time job to open , then keep sacrificing !! " it's worth it ""
But if you are just working here for benefits and think you are getting screwed, GO GET A FULL TIME JOB AND LOOK BACK AT HOW GOOD YOU HAD IT HERE !!!!
What a lot of full timers forget is that most of the part timers work a full time job as well, and we are chomping at the bit to have the opportunity to get off at 7 pm and tuck our children to bed. As a part timer I'm at work before drivers are and I am still working when they go to bed. For a fourth of pay............and I don't bitch
DiligentUPSer
Well-Known Member
I am inclined to believe that UPS is only providing a raise in the PTers starting rate to $10.00 because the national minimum wage would have reached that figure during upcoming contract anyways. So this cannot be viewed as a gain in this contract. With the bump in starting pay, however, it's a shame if it is in fact true there is not a "catch-up raise" for current PTers. After all, there was a catch-up raise in '97 when the starting rate was raised a mere $.50. UPS doesn't mind bumping the starting rate since the new hires in this era just quit as soon as or before they receive their first tuition reimbursement check anyways.
I have been a PTer for 8.5 years, eight years of which as the HVP in my area. Since I became pickoff certified a month into the job (skilled position at an extra $1/hr) only two others in my area have had the motivation to become pickoff certified in the last 8+ years. I can't begin to understand this. Those other two people are long gone and since my building went to smart-scanning two years ago, nobody else even knows any of the reads for anything no matter how long they're stuck in their loads. I've been stuck with all the weight of my area on my shoulders for years. Once again, I don't understand how or why there is a lack of motivation amongst newer PT employees to make more money or why it's so hard for them to consistently show up to work? Now they'll be getting the money handed to them.
I know there are exceptions to this and that we have some great PTers in this company and I can see we have many dedicated, prideful current PTers on this forum. These loyal current PTers who have put in the time and sweat off their backs deserve at least a $1 catch-up raise to provide them what they deserve relative to the clueless/lazy (in most cases) new-hires who will be starting in a much more favorable position than we did. Not to mention compared to FTers who started at similar rates when they were PT, but had much more purchasing power (inflation) with their PT rate 15-20+ years ago (and are now making $32+ per hour as FTers - which they deserve every bit of). But for us Pters, anyone who started between 2004 and the end of 2012 has been/will be at a disadvantage(Those who started between '97 and '03 had an inside track to 22.3 full-time jobs from the '97 strike contract - depending on your hub/center).
All-together, I will wait until further details come out before I judge this contract as a yes or no vote. Even with a 4 year progression (as opposed to 3 and formerly 2 yr) for new FTers (which I hope to become ASAP but do not have faith that the 2,000 FT job obligation will be honored) and even without the catch-up raise, I will be satisfied overall as long as the healthcare benefits end up being similar to those we currently have. Us committed UPSers deserve a great healthcare package for the nature of work we perform and the toll it takes on our bodies over the years. I do understand healthcare costs have skyrocketed over the last several years and that we are fortunate, especially as PTers to receive elite benefits without paying premiums. However, if the health care ends up being similar to the current C6 plan under the Central States, then it's an easy no vote under the premise that these givebacks are going to continue gradually as they have been the last two contracts despite record profits. Right now, there seems to be a lot of overreactions for both sides given the limited details we're currently working with. Let's just wait and see the tentative contract before jumping to conclusions.
I have been a PTer for 8.5 years, eight years of which as the HVP in my area. Since I became pickoff certified a month into the job (skilled position at an extra $1/hr) only two others in my area have had the motivation to become pickoff certified in the last 8+ years. I can't begin to understand this. Those other two people are long gone and since my building went to smart-scanning two years ago, nobody else even knows any of the reads for anything no matter how long they're stuck in their loads. I've been stuck with all the weight of my area on my shoulders for years. Once again, I don't understand how or why there is a lack of motivation amongst newer PT employees to make more money or why it's so hard for them to consistently show up to work? Now they'll be getting the money handed to them.
I know there are exceptions to this and that we have some great PTers in this company and I can see we have many dedicated, prideful current PTers on this forum. These loyal current PTers who have put in the time and sweat off their backs deserve at least a $1 catch-up raise to provide them what they deserve relative to the clueless/lazy (in most cases) new-hires who will be starting in a much more favorable position than we did. Not to mention compared to FTers who started at similar rates when they were PT, but had much more purchasing power (inflation) with their PT rate 15-20+ years ago (and are now making $32+ per hour as FTers - which they deserve every bit of). But for us Pters, anyone who started between 2004 and the end of 2012 has been/will be at a disadvantage(Those who started between '97 and '03 had an inside track to 22.3 full-time jobs from the '97 strike contract - depending on your hub/center).
All-together, I will wait until further details come out before I judge this contract as a yes or no vote. Even with a 4 year progression (as opposed to 3 and formerly 2 yr) for new FTers (which I hope to become ASAP but do not have faith that the 2,000 FT job obligation will be honored) and even without the catch-up raise, I will be satisfied overall as long as the healthcare benefits end up being similar to those we currently have. Us committed UPSers deserve a great healthcare package for the nature of work we perform and the toll it takes on our bodies over the years. I do understand healthcare costs have skyrocketed over the last several years and that we are fortunate, especially as PTers to receive elite benefits without paying premiums. However, if the health care ends up being similar to the current C6 plan under the Central States, then it's an easy no vote under the premise that these givebacks are going to continue gradually as they have been the last two contracts despite record profits. Right now, there seems to be a lot of overreactions for both sides given the limited details we're currently working with. Let's just wait and see the tentative contract before jumping to conclusions.
Same as you but a little worse. I work from around your start time to 5 and get changed in UPS parking lot. I actually had an old driver come up to my car in the back of the lot while I was changing pants (prob because he thought I was doing drugs), then proceeded to tell me it was illegal to do what I was doing that it was indecent exposure. I told him go friend himself & never heard another word about it.
gotbrown
Well-Known Member
My whole point is that all those drivers who whine and cry that they're underpaid, but in their next breath tell an $8.50/hour Preloader that he has an easy job & is paid sufficiently, should do some serious soul searching. In 2013, all jobs are stressful as employers clap on productivity -- even Walmart has reportably cut its per store workforce by as much as 20%, writing up & terminating employees who fail to pick up the slack
AGREE, we have both whining drivers that its never enough, and oddly those tend to be the ones who book off 1-2 days a week and dont go to meetings.. Also have ptmers that are the same but actually have a reason to bitch more pressure load more trucks in same amount of time,,but also don't show to meeting, call out no shows... and complain about everything but do nothing this is their chance have them vote it down..$2 raise for current ptmers NO 4 year progression to FT...I'll stand behind them on the picket lines.. But I doubt that will happen and the cycle will continue ptmers blame ftmers, ftmers say ptmers got what they deserve...It sucks and never will be fair all those guys that move from pt to ft can vote for the increases if more did and were loyal to where they came from they would. i'm sure some do but many dont. why?
My preloader is the best and i thank him everyday i see him, there are others that suck been there for years still suck,,and they are probably the same ones who turn out to be the same whining drivers.As long as they get theirs they dont care.
They don't do anywhere near the same job as me. Thats just comparing apple to half eaten discarded apples.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
odles of FedEx Ground employees are doing the EXACT SAME JOB as you for a fraction of the pay, after all.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
What makes it "Camelot"?
UPS Preloader
Well-Known Member
I'm a part timer and I think both sides have valid points. My issue is that we don't all get along. We are all brothers and sisters and we should be supporting each other as such. I think we all agree that PT's are under paid. Do PT's deserve the same pay as FT's. It would be nice, but no, we don't. Just the fact that FT's work more hours justifies them getting more money as they make a bigger commitment to UPS. Job wise, PT's job's in my opinion are more physically demanding than most FT's jobs, but its only to 3.5-5 hours a day. FT's jobs in my opinion are not as physically demanding, but they have to do it for many more hours so when it's all said and done the FT's put in a lot more work. In addition, the FT's have a lot more responsibility and accountability. Bottom line we all work hard and should support and respect each other. In my building, I respect most of the FT's and they respect me. (I have no respect for the drivers/runners that don't follow the rules and work though their lunches.)
quamba 638
Well-Known Member
I see a lot of full timers saying they support the part-timers, but obviously this isn't the case with the majority. Our starting wage has been the same since the 70's we have to work at UPS 25 years to get the top pay vs a full time guy that hits it after 3 years. So yeah, the vote from the FT is "screw PTers"
Also, obviously all FT are going to vote because the job is their livelihood vs a part time guy who is just going to school and wants to leave at first cut every night. When I was in college it was the same way. That's why the majority of PT don't vote, they don't plan on working here more then a handful of years. So it is what it is.
U
uber
Guest
As a driver I'm trying to remember where I came from. That was me once (not very long ago) working my ass off in a stinky hub making peanuts. Why so many drivers lose sight of that and don't remember where they came from is beyond me.
I vote with consideration to family and myself. You will never make every employee happy in negotiations. Are you really blaming the FT's for PT poverty? Maybe the PTs need to go out and vote. I may get more per hour but their vote counts as much as mine. So far in this contract, we have gotten everything we asked.
U
uber
Guest
I think PT and FT should be on separate contracts.
Moneythehardway
Well-Known Member
Funny though, not long ago (Before the tentative agreement) we as a 'union' were on the same accord as far as striking and 'no' votes if we're not ALL (or majority of us, ptimers and fulltimers alike) happy with what we're offered in this contract. Now the ftimers are looking at near $36-$37 by the end of the contract and it's "ok we're good, we're taken care of, screw what anyone else wants".
Union huh? Show me
Union huh? Show me
TooTechie
Geek in Brown
Wow, you're pretty lucky. I had to work for years in a crappy paying insurance job (salary) from 8am to 6pm, sit in rush hour traffic, eat a quick dinner, take a 2 hour nap, work the night shift at UPS until 4AM+, go home, get 2 hour nap then start it all over again. I would have loved to have all that contiguous time at home to be able to get a normal night's sleep. I just finally got back to a normal night's sleep 4 months ago when I started driving and my body is still having a rough time sleeping through the night.
If you can't sleep nights you should be in Feeders!
Scratchy
Well-Known Member
Besides it being against the rules, why do you think a driver working through lunch doesn't deserve respect? I am not arguing either way. Just want to know your POV.
Don't let these drivers blow smoke. Full timers aren't so special. They were just fortunate enough to get the job at the right time, or patient enough to wait for it. I guarantee the ones who waited 10 years are not the ones on this forum claiming that part time work is not a career! If you got 22.2 bid as a full time loader, you would jump to top rate after progression and make nearly the same as a driver. As part time loader, after "progression" you aren't even making half as much to do the exact same work. But the again, the part timers who started in the early 80s are making as much per hour as full timers, while the part timers who start today will never get close to top rate without going full time. Something has changed dramatically in the last 25 years and the part timers are now subsidizing the full timers who make 3 times as much as them. Even 22.3 full timers make far less than red circled part timers, which could never happen if the quality of life for part timers hadn't eroded so much over the last 5 contracts. That pressure will eventually lead to lower rate driving jobs as well, just wait and see. Feeder driver is a skilled position which has market value outside of UPS. Package car driver, not so much. You all were trained on the job, same as the sorters, hazmat responders, etc. Don't kid yourselves for a minute. There are tons of guys on the street who would love to have your job for $20 an hour top rate, and UPS would be glad to train them to do it. Of course if we were to go on strike there is no way the company could get enough people trained to cover the work, but the same goes for inside work as well.
starting at 8.50 now compared to 8.00 in the past is pretty drastic. anyone putting down part timers have obviously forgotten where they came from. not every part timer is lazy. seriously, that idea just boggles the mind. the whole idea of a union just isnt what it use to be or maybe i just had it wrong all these years. all i know is that some of these full timers only care about their bottom line and if they have to screw part timers in the process then so be it. these full timers can bring up all their reasons and excuses but at the end of the day they are only looking out for themselves. that whole brotherhood talk is nonsense if youre not actually a part of their concerns.
its funny, i know a few former drivers who are now supervisors. before, when they were drivers, they had the same complaints and concerns as any other driver out there. working long hours, being over dispatched, being harassed, etc etc etc. now that they are on the other side they simply dont care. they just want whats best for them and their job. everyday these former drivers are setting up drivers to fail. riding drivers until they break mentally or physically. if any major concerns are brought up, these former drivers use the same tactics that were used on them when they were driving; either belittling or harassment. they will say stuff like "stop laying down on me" or "if drivers dont like it they can find another job." yes, "find another job." i just love how that just rolls off the tongue so easily nowadays. rather than bringing up a concern just "go find another job." any union member telling another union member that makes me sick and laugh at the same time.
its hilarious how some people forget where they came from.
its funny, i know a few former drivers who are now supervisors. before, when they were drivers, they had the same complaints and concerns as any other driver out there. working long hours, being over dispatched, being harassed, etc etc etc. now that they are on the other side they simply dont care. they just want whats best for them and their job. everyday these former drivers are setting up drivers to fail. riding drivers until they break mentally or physically. if any major concerns are brought up, these former drivers use the same tactics that were used on them when they were driving; either belittling or harassment. they will say stuff like "stop laying down on me" or "if drivers dont like it they can find another job." yes, "find another job." i just love how that just rolls off the tongue so easily nowadays. rather than bringing up a concern just "go find another job." any union member telling another union member that makes me sick and laugh at the same time.
its hilarious how some people forget where they came from.
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40andOut
Guest
As a full time driver, I believe the vast majority of drivers would agree with your post. I think many "drivers" and "part timers" who post on this forum are actually management trying to sew devision. The drivers who actually came from part time know you guys are underpaid. I do not think a part timer who will only work for UPS for less than a year deserves a huge wage increase however. They have no stake in the company and so why should UPS pay them as if they do? Long term part time employees do deserve more however.
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