G.O.P. Debate 11-22-11

[bbsam]

And you would be correct and on the other hand, no one here COULD live in a purely socialistic society. See, absolutes can go both ways.

so then we simply disagree upon the degree to which each should hold sway. That being the case, we can dispatch with the crazy "facist, socialist" talk, don't you think?

 

[trplnkl]

so then we simply disagree upon the degree to which each should hold sway. That being the case, we can dispatch with the crazy "facist, socialist" talk, don't you think?

What terms would you prefer to describe the issues we are referencing?

 

[bbsam]

What terms would you prefer to describe the issues we are referencing?

Really? How about starting easy like, "I think that Obama's health care plan is going to be detrimental to the quality of care provided by physicians in the U.S.". See? Civility isn't that hard if you think past the ignorant name calling and talking points.

 

[Catatonic]

Really? How about starting easy like, "I think that Obama's health care plan is going to be detrimental to the quality of care provided by physicians in the U.S.". See? Civility isn't that hard if you think past the ignorant name calling and talking points.

That Is just a small part of it. The Social nature of the funding of Obamacare is of primary concern..
I don't understand why people get all out of whack about the use of Socialist, Socialism or Social programs.

 

[bbsam]

Because in this society socialism has a negative connotation that goes beyond it's definition and you know it, rush know it and newt knows it. So why apply it when it doesn't fit the definition? To affix the stigma to the target.

 

[MrFedEx]

LOL, and you said it was the republicans stuck in the past and our heads up out butts???

"WW2 Italy and Germany had total integration of the state and industry, a far cry from bailouts and temporary partial ownership." Did Germany and Italy become fascist over night in one grand swoop? Idon'tthinkso. one........step.......at.....a......time.

A comparison is a far cry from being exactly the same, but does set up for a liberal loon twist.

You say the "partial ownership(s)" are temporary? So far they don't look that way.

You self proclaim "reality" to be so proud of. The reality is that with nearly every move zer0bama makes he is directing us closer and closer to more socialism than we can survive.

Right now he is waffling back and forth on issues for campaign purposes. If he isn't re-elected he can't finish his obvious plan to socialize the USA.

You are assuming (wrongly) that we are on the path to fascism. If the Big 3 had been allowed to fail as most of you on the fringe would have liked, the "market correction" would have been disastrous and would have probably led to a full-on Depression. No, Germany and Italy didn't happen overnight, so does that mean that you think Obama is a "Hitler" or a "Mussolini" in the making? If so, you are really out there.

Obama has simply done what he has had to to save the economy from a further slide backwards. This guy is a Wall Street through and through, and a conservative middle of the road Democrat at best. The Far Left is totally disapointed in him because he's been so conservative, and you on the Right think he's a "socialist" or budding fascist.

There's no "obvious" plan to socialize the USA. That's FOX and Right Wing crazy talk all the way.

 

[Catatonic]

Because in this society socialism has a negative connotation that goes beyond it's definition and you know it, rush know it and newt knows it. So why apply it when it doesn't fit the definition? To affix the stigma to the target.

So, what word would you use to describe the West Europe Socialist Democracies?
They call themselves Socialists. The name of their political parties include "Socialist".

It is my observation of Obama that he is trying to institute social programs that are common in and define Western European Socialist Democracies.

I do agree that calling Obama a Fascist or a Marxist is a stretch but I do think Obama's actions has more attributes of a Fascist than did Bush Jr.

 

[Catatonic]

You are assuming (wrongly) that we are on the path to fascism. If the Big 3 had been allowed to fail as most of you on the fringe would have liked, the "market correction" would have been disastrous and would have probably led to a full-on Depression. No, Germany and Italy didn't happen overnight, so does that mean that you think Obama is a "Hitler" or a "Mussolini" in the making? If so, you are really out there.

Obama has simply done what he has had to to save the economy from a further slide backwards. This guy is a Wall Street through and through, and a conservative middle of the road Democrat at best. The Far Left is totally disapointed in him because he's been so conservative, and you on the Right think he's a "socialist" or budding fascist.

There's no "obvious" plan to socialize the USA. That's FOX and Right Wing crazy talk all the way.

If you were to ask FDR or Ike from a perspective of 50+ years ago, they would already consider the US a Socialist country.

I personally do and I want it to swing a little to the right.

 

[MrFedEx]

If you were to ask FDR or Ike from a perspective of 50+ years ago, they would already consider the US a Socialist country.

I personally do and I want it to swing a little to the right.

We are a million miles from being Socialist. We have a political system run by for-profit corporations, and you say we are Socialist? No way.

 

[bbsam]

Rooseveltian

 

[bbsam]

Obamacare is right of Nixonian and similar to Republican response to Hillarycare.

 

[moreluck]

Hitchcockian.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Really? How about starting easy like, "I think that Obama's health care plan is going to be detrimental to the quality of care provided by physicians in the U.S.". See? Civility isn't that hard if you think past the ignorant name calling and talking points.

Maybe you could mention that out to the others on the left...but since you support the left...

 

[Catatonic]

We are a million miles from being Socialist. We have a political system run by for-profit corporations, and you say we are Socialist? No way.

I forgot what it was like having a 14 year old around the house.
Brings back fond memories.

Thank you MFE.

 

[Catatonic]

Rooseveltian

I refer you to this no so definitive but popular site:
Socialist state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an excerpt:
socialist government, which generally refers to a liberal democratic state presided over by an elected majority socialist party that is not, or does not necessarily have to be, pursuing the development of socialism; the state apparatus is not constitutionally bound to an eventual transition to socialism. Non-statist socialists such as anarcho-socialists, libertarian socialists and Council communists reject the concept of a "socialist state" altogether, believing that the modern state is a byproduct of capitalism and cannot be used, or is not required, to establish a socialist system.

 

[bbsam]

And you suggest that this is the definition the the uber-right has in mind when they almost spit the word, "socialist"?

 

[bbsam]

If that is the case, then maybe they should super-impose Roosevelt over Obama instead of Hitler? No, that wouldn't have the desired effect, would it?

 

[Catatonic]

And you suggest that this is the definition the the uber-right has in mind when they almost spit the word, "socialist"?

I wouldn't know since I rarely watch any of the uber-right pundits. I tend to read more because that way I can analyze the logic of the argument and weed out the BS.
I get non-local news primarily from PBS nightly news hour and CNN. They are libs but consistent with a sense of journalistic intent and reporting the news. I've not seen this from ABC, CBS, Fox or NBC network news.

While I would agree with Fox I think, I don't like anybody on staff there other than Shep Smith and John Stoussel.
As with most package drivers, I am not at home to catch the nightly news anyway and I am in bed by 10 pm.

But the bottom line is that when you ask the average person "where there are Socialist governments", they normally will say Europe (even though Asia has just as many, some in Africa, some around the Caribbean).

 

[804brown]

Here are a few questions I wish the corporate media would ask some of these fools:Ask the Candidates Real Questions — Like These | Common Dreams

 

[MrFedEx]

I forgot what it was like having a 14 year old around the house.
Brings back fond memories.

Thank you MFE.

No problem. Today's 14 year olds look to the future, not the past. Forgot what it was like having Grandpa around the house complaining about that gol-durned computer doohickey thingamajigger. You're an anachronism straight from the days of Joe McCarthy. The Commies are coming!! The Commies are coming!! Old game, new players. Same old scare tactics to divert attention away from the core issues.

Brings back fond memories.

Thank you Hoaxter.