Gay Rights

[brazenbrown]

"Yours and others unwillingness to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, is narrow and closed minded."


So your unwillingness to tolerate my opinion makes you narrow and closed minded too, right?

Wrong!!

I can tolerate a good debate and your opinion! I've read many posts by you that we're witty and worthwhile, your contributions here are endless.

What I can't tolerate is your hate filled comments about gays! There's a difference when you say someone has a mental disorder and brains that need to be fixed, that's a personal jab like it or not!

 

[brazenbrown]

People are afraid of change aspen. I grew up with this kind of stuff so it really doesn't affect me at all. I have a few gay/bi friends and I don't view them as deviants or sick people. I just see my friend who was my friend long before I even knew they were gay/bi and will continue to be after. I don't care who they take to bed with then, if it makes them happy then good for them. Who is attractive to you is not a choice as someone already said, its a feeling. You don't choose things like that.

That all being said, I can see where most of you are coming from with the definition of marriage and such. I agree on a lot of it, but also disagree in a lot of areas as well. I don't know if they should be allowed to marry, I know it doesn't bother me if they are. At the end of the day I'll still put on my pants on leg at a time and live my life, I've got much bigger things to be concerned with. To think of it so does this country...word is theres a small bar fight going on in some pub called Iraq? Not really sure though. I am not a liberal or a conservative, the extremes are what is wrong with this country. If you lean all the way to one side or the other you miss the big picture in the middle (where many people lie). Though it seems as long as your (whichever end you fall on) beliefs are pushed forward, you don't care.

I have lost a lot of respect for some people on this thread not because of the topic but because even though some are much older and supposedly wiser than I, they are acting like children calling names, making possibly false accusations then treating it as fact as well as just being flat-out hateful. The fact that people like this are in politics are the reason this country is in shambles, not gay/lesbian rights.

Kudo's to you for making an excellent point!!

What I don’t understand is why people are so hateful. I don’t mean that you don’t approve of the gays but most of you don’t think anyone should have an opinion that differs from yours. There was a lot of name calling on both sides. I believe we are all intelligent and we should be able to have a rational discussion about this topic.

Another excellent point!
Well said aspen!

 

[over9five]

Hmmm.... I'll meet ya halfway:

I apologize to all for the 'deviant' comment. AND the 'brains that need to be fixed'.

But the 'mental disorder' is my opinion, and I'll not apologize for that.


So whaddaya say, BB? Can you tolerate my opinion, or will you remain narrow and closed minded?

 

[aspenleaf]

Hmmm.... I'll meet ya halfway:

I apologize to all for the 'deviant' comment. AND the 'brains that need to be fixed'.

But the 'mental disorder' is my opinion, and I'll not apologize for that.


So whaddaya say, BB? Can you tolerate my opinion, or will you remain narrow and closed minded?

over9five ~ you are correct that the mental disorder comment is your opinion. However you should know the American Psychological Association states: "Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a cure." (This I found on a site that supports gays - I am trying to find this exact quote on the APA site. . .)

More info can be found at http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm

 

[brazenbrown]

Hmmm.... I'll meet ya halfway:

I apologize to all for the 'deviant' comment. AND the 'brains that need to be fixed'.

But the 'mental disorder' is my opinion, and I'll not apologize for that.


So whaddaya say, BB? Can you tolerate my opinion, or will you remain narrow and closed minded?

I guess....I've tolerated your opinion thus far and I'd sure hate to be seen as narrow and closed minded.LOL!

In all seriousness I'll meet you halfway..Thanks for rollin with the punches as this can be one very heated topic!

I'm otta here!!

 

[Channahon]

People are people - whatever their sexual preference.

Everyone has their own opions and thougts, but the fact of the matter is for everyone to be happy in their lives. Pursure their livestyles and have happiness in their lives and support one another.

Isn't that what we do in our lives?

 

[blue efficacy]

Saying somebody has a mental disorder for liking the same sex is like saying I have a mental disorder for liking redheaded women. And I loves me a good redhead! Sure, most of my friends prefer blondes or brunettes, but they certainly don't think of me as a sick deviant (or if they do, they don't say so...)

Bottom line, everybody has a certain set of attributes they find attractive when looking for a partner. As long as your partner is a consenting adult, there is nothing sick or wrong about it.

That's why comparing homosexuality to pedophilia or bestiality is a poor analogy... neither of these involve consenting adults.

Granted, you have a fundamental American right to dislike homosexuals. What you can't do is harass them or try to deny them their rights. I personally dislike most black people. But do I think they should be denied equal right and treatment,? No I don't. Its natural to dislike that which is different. Just try to keep those feelings on the inside and everyone wins

 

[705red]

LOL - I mentioned the whales because I didn't know that animals did that. I was not saying we were like them; we have not reached that level yet! What species is out there working each day killing themselves? You call that smart?

I rub up on a good rock all the time!

I found this topic very interesting because it happened to be the topic of the week for my ethics class. I had to do a lot of research and post on the forum for my online class. The results were about the same with my class agreeing with most of you.

What I don’t understand is why people are so hateful. I don’t mean that you don’t approve of the gays but most of you don’t think anyone should have an opinion that differs from yours. There was a lot of name calling on both sides. I believe we are all intelligent and we should be able to have a rational discussion about this topic.

 

[aspenleaf]

LOL! Now that is funny!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

We all have the right to form our own judements and opinions about gays but in the end they, or anyone else, will only have to answer to the all mighty himself like the rest of us. My beliefs on the subject stem from my religion and I will not apoligize for them. Although it is debatable on EXACTLY how the Bible should be interpreted in some scriptures regarding gays but there is at least one that clearly states that when a man lies with another man it is a sin. So, I'm I hatefull for believing that? If I am then I guess most of Christianity is hatefull. LOL! Like I said before...I have a friend that is gay and I know a few others. I wouldn't dare wish them any harm for being gay but everyday I hope that it is just a phase and not something they will live with forever. And now that I think about it I can't help but wonder how many gay people stay gay forever. I wonder if there are some stats on that any where?

 

[Covemastah]

just curious, does this opinion come with a burning cross and white sheet or do you pay extra for that?

like i said i am not homophobic at all,to each his own, but don't push it on us all the time.You cant deny the fact that the moral fiber of this country has declined since the 50"s example 1 GOD is almost stricken from our country,it's taboo!!! 2 some liberals decided,it's their right to burn the American flag!!!! {my poor 84yr old uncle who crawled on his knees in Normandy D/day can't understand that} we are free to sue for any little accident or something someone said to offend us. SEX !!!!!! I LOVE IT <but dont teach my child about it in school, i will take care of it i will tell my child when i feel the time is right to tell her why someone has a mother and a special lady friend!!!! It is impossible to have two mommies or two daddys and that will be taught to her by me(my right as an american] also find it funny how so many found time to pray to GOD on 9/11 maybe thats the day the Supreme court should have HIM put back into school and HE would of been looking out for Virginia Tech ?? not anti gay, just fed up how America is slipping

 

[Jones]

over9five ~ you are correct that the mental disorder comment is your opinion. However you should know the American Psychological Association states: "Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a cure." (This I found on a site that supports gays - I am trying to find this exact quote on the APA site. . .)

Aspen,

Is sexual orientation a choice? No, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. Human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence prior to any sexual experience.
Is homosexuality a mental disorder?
No, homosexuality is not a mental disorder. For over 30 years, both the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel this myth.

The American Psychiatric Association also has a fact sheet

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Is It Possible To Change One’s Sexual Orientation (“Reparative Therapy”)?
There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of “reparative therapy” as a treatment to change one’s sexual orientation, nor is it included in the APA’s Task Force Report, Treatments of Psychiatric Disorders. More importantly, altering sexual orientation is not an appropriate goal of psychiatric treatment. Some may seek conversion to heterosexuality because of the difficulties that they encounter as a member of a stigmatized group. Clinical experience indicates that those who have integrated their sexual orientation into a positive sense of self-function at a healthier psychological level than those who have not. “Gay affirmative psychotherapy” may be helpful in the coming out process, fostering a positive psychological development and overcoming the effects of stigmatization. A position statement adopted by the Board in December 1998 said:[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as “reparative” or “conversion” therapy, which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder, or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/ her homosexual orientation.”[/FONT]​

​

 

[area43]

God did not make Adam and Steve, it was Adam and Eve. Im not a preacher and don't pretend to be. I am a Christian and my posts don't always reflect that. My Father and Mother always told me to treat others as you would want to be treated rather you thought they were right or wrong. Respect in disagreement is always best. I at times have failed in doing so. Agree to disagree. The problem I have on either side is when they try and force it down your throat(no pun intended). Enuff said on that.

About gay benefits, Its a legal issue. Im not trying to side step the issue here, but lets admit it, thats where it will ultimately be decided. Each group will try and sway the Judges to take one side or the other. Its America. I Love the process we have. Im glad as a Christian that I dont live in the middle east or China. I believe the Gays feel the same way. It would be off with your head in those countries. sincerely area 43

 

[moreluck]

I think maybe a lot of the turmoil is in the 'wording'.

The gay couples can have the rights, just don't call their union a "marriage". Just call it something else......like, life partnership.

Could it be as simple as that?1

 

[steeltoe]

like i said i am not homophobic at all,to each his own, but don't push it on us all the time.You cant deny the fact that the moral fiber of this country has declined since the 50"s example 1 GOD is almost stricken from our country,it's taboo!!! 2 some liberals decided,it's their right to burn the American flag!!!! {my poor 84yr old uncle who crawled on his knees in Normandy D/day can't understand that} we are free to sue for any little accident or something someone said to offend us. SEX !!!!!! I LOVE IT <but dont teach my child about it in school, i will take care of it i will tell my child when i feel the time is right to tell her why someone has a mother and a special lady friend!!!! It is impossible to have two mommies or two daddys and that will be taught to her by me(my right as an american] also find it funny how so many found time to pray to GOD on 9/11 maybe thats the day the Supreme court should have HIM put back into school and HE would of been looking out for Virginia Tech ?? not anti gay, just fed up how America is slipping

I thank your uncle for his service in your second point. I am not sure why he would think that a person should not be able to burn an American flag. This is one of those where you have to look at all sides of the issue. The burning of the American Flag makes me sick to my stomach, but should a person be arrested for burning a flag that they bought with their own money? I would believe that your uncle actually fought for these people to be able to do what they want with the American Flag as long as it does not affect any other persons life, liberty or pursuit of happiness. Sure, it is a disgusting sight, but because I do not agree with it or I feel I have been disrespected by the act is not reason to arrest a person for their acts or beliefs. I truelly believe that the burning of the American Flag disrespects all people that have fought for our country, but I also believe that these very same people have this right because it is their property and it in no way affects my life, liberty or pursuit of happiness. All it does is make me angry that they would disrepect the symble of our country. Heck, leaving your flag on the pole at night with out lighting, or in the rain is no different than burning the flag.

I have always had the solution for people that are against the right to burn the flag. Pass a law that states that all American Flags must be made of non-flameable material.

 

[brazenbrown]

just fed up how America is slipping

Is the glass half empty or is it half full?

"American capitalism is derided for its superficial banality, yet it has unleashed profound, convulsive social change," he writes. "Condemned as mindless materialism, it has burst loose a flood tide of spiritual yearning. The civil rights movement and the sexual revolution, environmentalism and feminism, the fitness and health-care boom and the opening of the gay closet, the withering of censorship and the rise of a 'creative class' of 'knowledge workers' -- all are the progeny of widespread prosperity."

Good News: The World Gets Better

 

[aspenleaf]

I found this site to be interesting. The author brings up some good points about how we don't follow all the old laws of the bible such as stoning brides if they are not virgins. The site I was on was this: https://web.archive.org/web/2012021...org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

 

[aspenleaf]

I think maybe a lot of the turmoil is in the 'wording'.

The gay couples can have the rights, just don't call their union a "marriage". Just call it something else......like, life partnership.

Could it be as simple as that?1

moreluck ~ I wish it were as simple as that. The ones I know don't care if anyone calls their union a marriage they just want the rights. I had never thought one way or the other about the gay-rights issues until I worked with them. I like to talk so I would ask them questions; they never imposed their beliefs on me.

To those of you who don’t want sex education in schools I hope you do teach your kids at home. So many parents do not. I think basic sex education is very important in the schools and if more kids were allowed to go they might get their questions answered. Not everyone has parents who will explain things. Some parents don’t have any idea the types of things their kids already know or have misconceptions about. I asked my mother a ton of questions and she would answer me as best she could. I never did any of the stuff I asked about. I just wanted to know certain things. She told me years later that I made her nervous but she didn’t want to lie to me or have me go find out from others. I don’t think they need to get graphic but if kids want to know about gays and they ask why shouldn’t their questions be answered? I think you still have to approve your kids going to the class (has this changed? I really don’t know) so if you want to teach them at home do so.

 

[seachange]

We all have the right to form our own judements and opinions about gays but in the end they, or anyone else, will only have to answer to the all mighty himself like the rest of us. My beliefs on the subject stem from my religion and I will not apoligize for them. Although it is debatable on EXACTLY how the Bible should be interpreted in some scriptures regarding gays but there is at least one that clearly states that when a man lies with another man it is a sin. So, I'm I hatefull for believing that? If I am then I guess most of Christianity is hatefull. LOL! Like I said before...I have a friend that is gay and I know a few others. I wouldn't dare wish them any harm for being gay but everyday I hope that it is just a phase and not something they will live with forever. And now that I think about it I can't help but wonder how many gay people stay gay forever. I wonder if there are some stats on that any where?

Big arrow, are you serious? "i wonder how many gay people stay gay forever"??!! that's like saying... i wonder how many straight people stay straight forever.
many closed minded folks don't even realize that gays are working (and living) beside you. also, homosexuality was REMOVED from the list of mental disorders in 1974. I think people are getting bogged down on the word "marriage". call it what you will: civil union, partnership, etc. Gays are only trying to obtain the same HUMAN rights. this includes access to over 1100 federal benefits that appy to married couples here are just 10 important ones: hospital visitation, health ins, spousal privilige, inheiritence rights, family leave, pensions, nursing homes, retirement savings, taxes, SS benefits, ability to serve in the armed forces. "Why wouldn’t two people, who have spent their lives committed to one another, be granted the same human rights that most other Americans take for granted?" Many gay couples i know have been in a committed relationship for 20 plus years. a heck of alot longer than most married folks these days. and one last tid bit of info... it's NOT a matter of cost to add domestic partnership benefits. on avg it adds less than 1% to overall costs. http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/relationships/20306res20050713.html In order to obtain domestic benefits, a couple must prove that they are in a committed and mutually exclusive relationship in which each partner is responsible for the other's welfare. I'm not looking to receive any bad rep points, i only wanted to provide some facts and info PEACE TO ALL and go UPS.

 

[moreluck]

Seachange.....in my case the DO live next door to me.....literally.

A gay couple and one set of parents. The "boys" as I call them, have been together for 13 years. The parents are 84 & 88. They all are a loving family and great neighbors. We have dinner with them at least once a month and I have a coffee date every Thurs. with them.

I consider what the parents have is a marriage like mine. The boys are, in my mind, life partners.....but not a marriage. The one guy works and the other guy keeps house and cares for his elderly parents.....and pops over once a day to chat.

I couldn't ask for better neighbors. I know, because I have a "witch b*tch" across from me.