getting paid for supervisors working?

[City Driver]

So in order to stay off the radar let management walk all over the union.

Well get new stewards you elected them.

if a union worker walked up to any steward at my terminal and said "i saw this supervisor working for 1 minute and they wont pay me for it" they would probably call the worker a crybaby bi*** and tell him to get over it, and id agree with that

 

[UPSGUY72]

if a union worker walked up to any steward at my terminal and said "i saw this supervisor working for 1 minute and they wont pay me for it" they would probably call the worker a crybaby bi*** and tell him to get over it, and id agree with that

We have stewards and feeder drivers that management knows better than to touch a package when they are around unless it would created a service failure because management knows that they will file a grievence.

As I understand it from your post your building needs to get new stewards that have a set.

IF management is working there stealing time from a union brothers pay check. If you stole time from the company you'd get fired. But you think it's ok if management steals time from your pay check.

 

[brownIEman]

If you stole time from the company you'd get fired.

no, you would not. happens all the time. see my example above. Happens every day in every UPS facility in the country in the little ways I mentioned. As does supervisors working happen in small ways across the country.

So when I hand a package to a loader from the slide, I am stealing from your brother. When you spend that extra 3 minutes playing pac-man on your phone in the john, you are taking away from my child's college fund.

Do we really need the dramatics? Does it really make you feel that more right and ethical?

 

[UPSGUY72]

no, you would not. happens all the time. see my example above. Happens every day in every UPS facility in the country in the little ways I mentioned. As does supervisors working happen in small ways across the country.

So when I hand a package to a loader from the slide, I am stealing from your brother. When you spend that extra 3 minutes playing pac-man on your phone in the john, you are taking away from my child's college fund.

Do we really need the dramatics? Does it really make you feel that more right and ethical?

Like I said before its give and take between the union and management you have to pick your battles. However, if push comes to shove I don't care if it took 1 hour to get 15 minutes of pay becasue I know I'm going to get paid for both the 15 min and the hour it took to get it becauce I don't conduct business with UPS off the clock my shop steward would have my a-- if I did.

 

[UPSGUY72]

but again, you are not looking at the other side of the coin. How long is too long just standing and having a quick chat, or taking a breather, and not doing any work while on the clock? 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes? 10?

If you do a little math you will see that if every hourly who took that extra even :30 seconds break a day, or took that extra LONNNNNG stroll to the bathroom three times a day, or had that 1 minute catch up conversation a day, stopped, it would dwarf the hours put in by those 1 minute supes a day and there would be no need for a single second of them. So sure, altstewie, go ahead and keep up the good work, just please keep working.

It and honest day pay for and honest days work. NOT SLAVE LABOR. Just becasue there isn't enought sorters, loaders, or unloaders. Doesn't mean workers can't talk, have a drink, or go to the bathroom.

 

[brownIEman]

It and honest day pay for and honest days work. NOT slave labor. Just becasue there isn't enought sorters, loaders, or unloaders. Doesn't mean workers can't talk, have a drink, or go to the bathroom.

are you suggesting I should build "gab" time into my staffing plan? Really?

 

[UPSGUY72]

are you suggesting I should build "gab" time into my staffing plan? Really?

No you should be able to talk and continue doing your job. But maybe you should becasue management might want to talk to the SLAVES working.

If there was something called common sense I'd say use it. But that does exist with UPS.

 

[brownIEman]

No you should be able to talk and continue doing your job. But maybe you should becasue management might want to talk to the SLAVES working.

If there was something called common sense I'd say use it. But that does exist with UPS.

Nice Freudian slip with the typing. Yes, commons sense DOES exist.

See, you just have to go to the dramatic moralistic language. Yes, I want time to talk to my slaves. Good lord man. My people are not slaves, they are human beings, and I do not treat anyone as a slave. But guess what? When they talk, more often than not, they stop working. If they are talking and working at the same time, I have no reason to be even remotely concerned.

But when I observe an employee chatting next to an open box holding a tape gun in his hand, not taping anything, not loading any packages, but just talking, for 8 solid minutes, that is a cause for concern. This sorta thing happens all the time. But you want to find every way you can to explain it away with dramatic rhetoric like "we are not slaves!", or whatever other argument you can come up with to stay morally superior to management.

From my experience, from a stealing hours standpoint, hourlies steal a lot more total hours from us than we still from them. Not because I believe management are by and large somehow morally superior to hourlies. Simple mathematics, there are simply many times more hourlies than management.

 

[grgrcr88]

i dont know what planet you all live on but if i filed a grievance for a supervisor working for 1 minute, id be called into the office and disciplined for all sorts of things they will drag out

file grievance = put you on the radar

and the union does nothing for us.......our stewards are a joke

Your stewards are a direct representation of the strength of YOUR union. You don't like something do something about it, you think a steward is supposed to stand up for you when you are too chicken sh** to stand up for yourself. I am so tired of hearing how crappy the stewards and the Union is from People who are to scared to do anything for themselves. If you are violated or you see the contract violated it is not only your right it is your duty as a Union member to file on the violation!

How many meetings you go to at your local union hall? You have no idea what your Union or your steward do, all you see is what you want to see.

Stop complaining about this stuff, grow some balls and stand up for yourself and the rest of the membership!!!

 

[City Driver]

Your stewards are a direct representation of the strength of YOUR union. You don't like something do something about it, you think a steward is supposed to stand up for you when you are too chicken sh** to stand up for yourself. I am so tired of hearing how crappy the stewards and the Union is from People who are to scared to do anything for themselves. If you are violated or you see the contract violated it is not only your right it is your duty as a Union member to file on the violation!

How many meetings you go to at your local union hall? You have no idea what your Union or your steward do, all you see is what you want to see.

Stop complaining about this stuff, grow some balls and stand up for yourself and the rest of the membership!!!

i love when you all pull out the "grow some balls" just to try to get to people

im not going to be the big union crybaby you all want me to be, if i see the contract violated and it doesnt really affect me then i dont care.....we got so many damn lazy guys cuz of the union that the supervisors try to work to make up for them

grow some balls and do your job and you wont have to worry about filing grievances

 

[Ptrunner]

are you suggesting I should build "gab" time into my staffing plan? Really?

so are you saying you dont have gab time with other people in management? or take that extra long lunch break or whatever the things youre gripping about hourlies doing..youre stealing time just as well when you do the above things...

its like the same stuff with its a grounds for termination for dishonesty for hourlies but with management they lie everyday and get paid to do it..

this is why we enforce supervisors working because its always a double standard with management

 

[Ptrunner]

i love when you all pull out the "grow some balls" just to try to get to people

im not going to be the big union crybaby you all want me to be, if i see the contract violated and it doesnt really affect me then i dont care.....we got so many damn lazy guys cuz of the union that the supervisors try to work to make up for them

grow some balls and do your job and you wont have to worry about filing grievances

I did do my job. My first 3 years at ups i was one of the top preloaders in the building with a 4 car pull in front of the belt pulling anywhere from 700-1100 a day. I was the show off kid making these older guys look bad. I was an antiunion guy as well, I didn't understand what it did for me as it took 30 dollars a month from me. Guess what happened to me? I messed up my back pretty bad, What did management do for me..

They decided it was from outside of work since I was an athlete. A runner. I took them to court had a back specialist, my family doctor, and 2 physical therapist against their one company paid for doctor and I won.

People dont grow some balls, they work safe and at a pace where the above doesnt happen to them.

 

[City Driver]

the same people who whine and cry about supervisors working the most are the same ones who also whine and cry about working so many hours

you cant have it both ways

i believe the union does alot of good things for us but this is the negative side of it, it creates way to many crybabies who hang on every word of the contract

ive seen dockworkers file grievances when a supervisor helped them pull a skid out, the dockworker was on the forklift and the sup was walking holding the load up, 10 seconds of work total

its stupid

 

[PobreCarlos]

upsguy72;

Who said I wanted to be in the union? As for those things you say the union brought me....sorry, but I don't see it. Nor can I see where unions - or the Teamsters in particular - overall brought this country and/or its economy anything but a hard time. Subsidized parasites? Sure. Helped the country as a whole? Nope, no way. If it did, then - again - why wouldn't employers simply be rushing all over themselves to hire union labor? See that happening, do you? I suspect that the answer is "no"...and what you see, instead, is the millions of jobs that unions have chased from our shores. Or, like the Teamsters, have pissed-away to more efficient, cost-effective domestic labor alternatives.

But let's take your question of "If you don't like the union then why are you in it?" in a general sense; i.e. - why ARE people in the union if they don't like it?

In a word, it what I mentioned in my previous post...coercion. That is, in non-RTW states, they essentially are FORCED to be part of the union at UPS. They really don't have any option. As can be seen by the example of what's happening in RTW states, if they HAD that option, great numbers of employees would NOT be members of the union. There's a reason why the unions are pushing the "Employee Free Choice Act"...and it most certainly is NOT because they want employees to actually have "free choice", but rather because they realize that the only way they can "organize" today in most situations is by FORCING workers to join. God help them if they actually want to vote by secret ballot (and PLEASE spare me this crap that "they would be able to have a secret ballot if they wanted one" UNLESS you show how this "wanting one" is expressed by having a secret ballot as well, OK?)

Anyway, I realize that your jumping to conclusions is probably no worse than that of tens of thousands of other Teamsters who suffer from the same disease, but still it might be useful if you checked your propaganda-born assumptions at the door when considering asking similar questions.

 

[PobreCarlos]

altstewie;

Got a kick out of your statement....

"I did do my job"

....specifically, your use of the PAST tense, leaving the present tense alone.

I wonder, however, if as an employee you understand what your "job" is/was? I ask because your questioning of managements' gab time and whatever. By that I mean that I wonder if you realize that the "job" of an EMPLOYEE is to FUNCTION as an EMPLOYEE; i.e - submit to the will of his EMPLOYER in return for wages earned. In terms of HIS job, it's immaterial what management does on theirs; their job is to please THEIR employer (ultimately the shareholders), and not you.

You see, in the end, it isn't the numbers you're doing that makes the difference; rather, it's how satisfactory you are AS AN EMPLOYEE to the employer. That being "satisfactory", as determined by the EMPLOYER, IS "the job". You have ONE customer; your employer. If you don't please him, you're not doing "your job"....period!

May not like to hear that, it may sound "kiss-assy", or whatever, but there it is. In truth, if your employer finds you unsatisfactory as an employee, then (1) you're NOT "doing your job", and (2) you're functioning as an economic parasite on those who are.

 

[Dustyroads]

I guess things are handled differently in different parts of the county. But, where I work, managers and supervisors can't handle packages. And, they know this quite well. Usually, most members of management we have here play by those rules. Sometimes, usually a new part time sup, will think he can be a hero by loading or moving a bunch of packages, and those individuals get corrected, by the filing of a grievance. However, the pay for the grievance can only be given to the highest seniority person who was available to do the work. If a person is already on the clock and being paid, and they witness a supervisor working, they can file a grievance, however, they will have no standing here, as they are already on the clock and working. The grievance money goes to the highest seniority worker who was available to do the work and was not offered the work. Obviously, things are done differently elsewhere, but that's the way we do it out here in the middle of the country.

 

[grgrcr88]

the same people who whine and cry about supervisors working the most are the same ones who also whine and cry about working so many hours

you cant have it both ways

i believe the union does alot of good things for us but this is the negative side of it, it creates way to many crybabies who hang on every word of the contract

ive seen dockworkers file grievances when a supervisor helped them pull a skid out, the dockworker was on the forklift and the sup was walking holding the load up, 10 seconds of work total

its stupid

You should go to work at a non-union company if you hate the union so much, you would be wishing for the very same union you now despise!!

 

[cachsux]

i love when you all pull out the "grow some balls" just to try to get to people

im not going to be the big union crybaby you all want me to be, if i see the contract violated and it doesnt really affect me then i dont care.....we got so many damn lazy guys cuz of the union that the supervisors try to work to make up for them

grow some balls and do your job and you wont have to worry about filing grievances

So YOU have a weak local,you let mgmt do what they want as long as it doesnt affect you,you have stewards with no balls,workers with no balls, and because of that you knock us because we won`t do the same.

Be a sheep City. Make me wonder where the urine streams from your management team might be landing,on your heads or your backs?

 

[Ptrunner]

altstewie;

Got a kick out of your statement....

"I did do my job"

....specifically, your use of the PAST tense, leaving the present tense alone.

I wonder, however, if as an employee you understand what your "job" is/was? I ask because your questioning of managements' gab time and whatever. By that I mean that I wonder if you realize that the "job" of an EMPLOYEE is to FUNCTION as an EMPLOYEE; i.e - submit to the will of his EMPLOYER in return for wages earned. In terms of HIS job, it's immaterial what management does on theirs; their job is to please THEIR employer (ultimately the shareholders), and not you.

You see, in the end, it isn't the numbers you're doing that makes the difference; rather, it's how satisfactory you are AS AN EMPLOYEE to the employer. That being "satisfactory", as determined by the EMPLOYER, IS "the job". You have ONE customer; your employer. If you don't please him, you're not doing "your job"....period!

May not like to hear that, it may sound "kiss-assy", or whatever, but there it is. In truth, if your employer finds you unsatisfactory as an employee, then (1) you're NOT "doing your job", and (2) you're functioning as an economic parasite on those who are.

I was trying to make a point about working hard and getting fair treatment in return. Yeah i will definitely go say, I dont work as hard as i did before. But its not out of spite for the company but because my back cant handle it. I need to work at a slower pace or else i get really bad back muscle strains. When i bend down, it really takes concentration to always bend down with the knees. Im not at snail pace, Im still average in the building but not where i was speed wise. And i only have a few misloads a year im pretty near perfect in that aspect. So dont go telling me Im not doing my job and Im not submitting myself to the employer, Im just not as fast as i used to be, I still follow the methods they say and always work as directed. I get told good job pretty much every night so I must not be an economic parasite.

Anyways after talking with the union steward last night, and your comments on here, my questions have been answered about who gets paid and such so no need to comment anymore. The debate over supervisors working is one that will always be had between management and union employees and employees who dont care about supervisors working.

 

[brownIEman]

so are you saying you dont have gab time with other people in management? or take that extra long lunch break or whatever the things youre gripping about hourlies doing..youre stealing time just as well when you do the above things...

its like the same stuff with its a grounds for termination for dishonesty for hourlies but with management they lie everyday and get paid to do it..

this is why we enforce supervisors working because its always a double standard with management

altstewie, like so many others I have talked to on this board, and at work, you don't get it.

Yes, there is a double standard on this time issue. But not in the way you think. It is not hypocrisy. There are, in fact, two separate standards for the way time is treated for hourlies and management. When you are on the clock, UPS is expected to pay you for each and every hundredth of an hour that you are on the clock. If UPS fails to do so, there are penalties. Likewise, when you are on the clock, you are expected to be working for UPS each and every hundredth of an hour you are being paid for (apart from the agreed upon paid breaks) Now, if you need to use the facilities or get a drink, that is no big deal. So there is accepted amounts of time when you are being paid, it is not a break, and you are not working in UPS' best interest. The problem comes in when this open to interpretation gray area starts to get abused. And it gets abused a ton, at least in my experience.

Now, I have been known to take a long lunch, and to chat with other supervisors, sometimes not about work, while at work. Here is the key difference - I am not on the clock. There is no clock. How can I be stealing time when I am not on the clock? I am expected to work in the best interest of UPS, I am a part owner and partner in the business and I am assigned by the people I report to things that I am responsible for getting accomplished. If I can get them done while chatting, and really only working a good solid 5 hours in a day, then my bosses really have no reason to be concerned about the other 5 hours. If however, I cannot get it all done without working 24 hours in a day, then my bosses have no qualms about me working the 24 hours every day, they will just tell me I need to work on my time management skills. Either way, I get paid the same. And if my boss ever decides I am not pulling my weight, am not working hard enough, if I am as you say, "stealing time", he does not need to go through a bunch of hoops, call in a steward, or any of that mess. He can just call up HR and say this dude is fired, gone history, off the payroll please.

So altsewie, I am sorry to be the one to point this out to you, but it is YOU who have the double standard. You feel the management should be treated just like you are when it comes to working every minute while "on the clock" but should absolutely not be treated like you are when it comes to them grabbing a package and moving it into a car or feeder.

In reality, they should be treated differently than you are in both situations, because they have a different role in the organization and under the contract.