Going to panel

[UnionStrong]

[edit] I'm leaving BC for a bit

 

[charm299]

I work with this driver, he really is a honest dude. They fired him because of his overallowed and making up reasons. We have a new center manager and supervisor that’s going after everybody who files grievances and had a lot of overallowed. In the previous 5 years only 1 or 2 people were fired, he has fired 6 people in the last year. They wrote me up twice for following Orion because they said I wasn’t having the best interest of the company by doing that. Our business agent is pretty useless.

 

[Fido]

If you didn’t do anything fight for your job back and go to panel. If you didn’t purposely pad your stops then fight for it back. Accidental padding happens. I’ve had plenty of times where I have 2 stops for one place and can’t find it. Then say screw it because I can’t find it and I’ll find it later. Then go back into the truck to look again maybe or look for your next stop and then find it. happens. They’re crazy. Go to panel.

 

[Commercial Inside Release]

In the previous 5 years only 1 or 2 people were fired, he has fired 6 people in the last year.

Yep. I figured as much. Teamsters & panel are corrupt in many parts of the country.

Do not resign! Don't be a coward, and GO to panel. Get advice from the guys that were fired, and report back here, for ideas.

Also, for piece of mind, prepare to look for work. There are other companies that are union, a Teamster can work at.

 

[burrheadd]

[edit] I'm leaving BC for a bit

 

[Trucker Clock]

They said I've been Padding stops. They went back 10 days and found about 15 stops that they claimed I padded.

I told you they would go back 30 days. Apparently, they only needed to go back 10 to prove that this is normal for you to do.

I thought they couldn't fire you from Technology?

There are 2 separate issues here. First, delivery records do not fall under Article 6 Section 6 of the Master dealing with Technology.

Article 6 Section 6

No driver shall be discharged based solely upon information received from GPS, telematics, or any successor system that similarly tracks or surveils a driver’s movements.

They terminated you for dishonesty based on falsifying delivery records.

Even if someone can claim that the DIAD does fall under Article 6 Section 6, there is another clause in the Article for issues like this.

Article 6 Section 6

unless he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any intentional act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the Company.

Did you engage in dishonesty to defraud the Company? They would say yes. You were padding your stops to increase your paid day to make more money or to cover up the fact that you would be 3 hours over if you didn't pad your stops.

I did see 4 stops today and they were business suits. Example 3441 Causeway blvd is had a bunch of suits a b c d etc.

OK. If you delivered each separate suite and got separate signatures, there is no problem here. You did not pad your stops. That is following the methods. Go to the panel and fight for your job.

But, if you sheeted each suite separately as an individual stop, and then only got one signature, or had the same person sign for each separate stop, well, that is padding stops. Go to the panel and beg for your job.

If you consistently deliver 123 Devon St, or whatever address, and get 2 stops out of 1, well that could be an issue. We all do it sometimes. Find the second box at the end of the day and deliver it without hitting duplicate. That is then 2 stops on the DIAD for 1 address. If it happens occasionally, no big deal. But, it looks like you do it consistently.

If all get one pkg that's 4 different stops and that's how I delivered them.

Did you go to the 4 different suites and obtain 4 different signatures? Or did you get 1 signature for all 4 stops?

I don't know If I should go to panel or just resign

If the Company did not have the delivery records to back them up, you would have got your job back already. You should still go to the panel .Depending on what the delivery records show is how you, or your BA, is going to approach this.

If you followed the methods or did this by accident, due to a flawed DIAD or lack of training, your approach will be one of modesty and respect for the panel, but that what you did was not on purpose and you are sorry and it will never happen again.

If you did this on purpose knowing that getting 1 signature for 4 stops is not how you were trained, your approach will be one of modesty and respect for the panel, but what you did was stupid, should never have happened, and that you will guarantee that it will never happen again.

There is also another option that could happen if you choose to go to the panel instead of resign. They could offer you a deal for your job back, without backpay, just before the panel. They get their way. You end up with a 3 or 4 week suspension, and the Company proves their point.

I mean, the whole purpose of discipline is to change behavior. Even if you have done this before, since the last 10 days may prove it, this is the first time the Company has brought it to your attention. I do not suggest you bring this approach up at the panel if you end up going, but a 3 week suspension should get you to change your habits and follow the methods.

 

[qdg2]

I told you they would go back 30 days. Apparently, they only needed to go back 10 to prove that this is normal for you to do.



There are 2 separate issues here. First, delivery records do not fall under Article 6 Section 6 of the Master dealing with Technology.

Article 6 Section 6

No driver shall be discharged based solely upon information received from GPS, telematics, or any successor system that similarly tracks or surveils a driver’s movements.

They terminated you for dishonesty based on falsifying delivery records.

Even if someone can claim that the DIAD does fall under Article 6 Section 6, there is another clause in the Article for issues like this.

Article 6 Section 6

unless he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any intentional act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the Company.

Did you engage in dishonesty to defraud the Company? They would say yes. You were padding your stops to increase your paid day to make more money or to cover up the fact that you would be 3 hours over if you didn't pad your stops.



OK. If you delivered each separate suite and got separate signatures, there is no problem here. You did not pad your stops. That is following the methods. Go to the panel and fight for your job.

But, if you sheeted each suite separately as an individual stop, and then only got one signature, or had the same person sign for each separate stop, well, that is padding stops. Go to the panel and beg for your job.

If you consistently deliver 123 Devon St, or whatever address, and get 2 stops out of 1, well that could be an issue. We all do it sometimes. Find the second box at the end of the day and deliver it without hitting duplicate. That is then 2 stops on the DIAD for 1 address. If it happens occasionally, no big deal. But, it looks like you do it consistently.



Did you go to the 4 different suites and obtain 4 different signatures? Or did you get 1 signature for all 4 stops?



If the Company did not have the delivery records to back them up, you would have got your job back already. You should still go to the panel .Depending on what the delivery records show is how you, or your BA, is going to approach this.

If you followed the methods or did this by accident, due to a flawed DIAD or lack of training, your approach will be one of modesty and respect for the panel, but that what you did was not on purpose and you are sorry and it will never happen again.

If you did this on purpose knowing that getting 1 signature for 4 stops is not how you were trained, your approach will be one of modesty and respect for the panel, but what you did was stupid, should never have happened, and that you will guarantee that it will never happen again.

There is also another option that could happen if you choose to go to the panel instead of resign. They could offer you a deal for your job back, without backpay, just before the panel. They get their way. You end up with a 3 or 4 week suspension, and the Company proves their point.

I mean, the whole purpose of discipline is to change behavior. Even if you have done this before, since the last 10 days may prove it, this is the first time the Company has brought it to your attention. I do not suggest you bring this approach up at the panel if you end up going, but a 3 week suspension should get you to change your habits and follow the methods.

I would add part of the whole purpose of discipline is revenge and often spite mixed with sometimes hate.

 

[oldngray]

OK. If you delivered each separate suite and got separate signatures, there is no problem here. You did not pad your stops. That is following the methods. Go to the panel and fight for your job.

But, if you sheeted each suite separately as an individual stop, and then only got one signature, or had the same person sign for each separate stop, well, that is padding stops. Go to the panel and beg for your job.

Not true.

If you have packages for different addresses and you make an attempt at every one then later indirect them and have 1 person sign for them then they do count as multiple stops.

Or if it is only 1 stop you indirect to a place that already signed for their own packages it is also another stop.

 

[Trucker Clock]

If you have packages for different addresses and you make an attempt at every one then later indirect them and have 1 person sign for them then they do count as multiple stops.

Nope. They count as 1 stop for the first time you attempt delivery. And if this was the case, there would be a scanned delivery notice and a reason for non delivery in the DIAD. If you then later indirect these stops, they do not count again as separate stops. They are marked as "duplicate."

Or if it is only 1 stop you indirect to a place that already signed for their own packages it is also another stop.

No it is not. It is a stop if you already made an attempt at the original stop. The original stop is a CLO1 or a NI1. Then it would not count as another stop when you indirected it.

You seem to be saying that he gets credit for 1 stop during the original attempt. He then gets credit for another stop for this same package when he indirects it. He now gets credit for 2 stops, plus the 3rd stop at the indirect location for their package.

Not true. He gets credit for the original attempt and the other stop he had a package for, even though he indirects the first stop. He gets credit for 2 stops total, not 3.

If he attempts 3 suites, leaves delivery notices, but does not sheet them as closed, and then indirects these 3 stops to a 4th stop and someone signs for them, he notes the 3 stops "left at."

So yes, he can get 1 signature for 4 stops, but I don't think this is what he did. I don't believe he made an attempt at the other 3 stops. He sheeted them as separate suites and delivered them all to the 4th suite. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Nope. They count as 1 stop for the first time you attempt delivery. And if this was the case, there would be a scanned delivery notice and a reason for non delivery in the DIAD. If you then later indirect these stops, they do not count again as separate stops. They are marked as "duplicate."



No it is not. It is a stop if you already made an attempt at the original stop. The original stop is a CLO1 or a NI1. Then it would not count as another stop when you indirected it.

You seem to be saying that he gets credit for 1 stop during the original attempt. He then gets credit for another stop for this same package when he indirects it. He now gets credit for 2 stops, plus the 3rd stop at the indirect location for their package.

Not true. He gets credit for the original attempt and the other stop he had a package for, even though he indirects the first stop. He gets credit for 2 stops total, not 3.

If he attempts 3 suites, leaves delivery notices, but does not sheet them as closed, and then indirects these 3 stops to a 4th stop and someone signs for them, he notes the 3 stops "left at."

So yes, he can get 1 signature for 4 stops, but I don't think this is what he did. I don't believe he made an attempt at the other 3 stops. He sheeted them as separate suites and delivered them all to the 4th suite. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

Clearly, no one can get confused by any of this L O L.

 

[Next Day Error]

The store manager would break open a pkg of cookies or such and leave them laying around. Knowing how many exactly were there. Knowing who went back there.....

 

[oldngray]

Nope. They count as 1 stop for the first time you attempt delivery. And if this was the case, there would be a scanned delivery notice and a reason for non delivery in the DIAD. If you then later indirect these stops, they do not count again as separate stops. They are marked as "duplicate."



No it is not. It is a stop if you already made an attempt at the original stop. The original stop is a CLO1 or a NI1. Then it would not count as another stop when you indirected it.

You seem to be saying that he gets credit for 1 stop during the original attempt. He then gets credit for another stop for this same package when he indirects it. He now gets credit for 2 stops, plus the 3rd stop at the indirect location for their package.

Not true. He gets credit for the original attempt and the other stop he had a package for, even though he indirects the first stop. He gets credit for 2 stops total, not 3.

If he attempts 3 suites, leaves delivery notices, but does not sheet them as closed, and then indirects these 3 stops to a 4th stop and someone signs for them, he notes the 3 stops "left at."

So yes, he can get 1 signature for 4 stops, but I don't think this is what he did. I don't believe he made an attempt at the other 3 stops. He sheeted them as separate suites and delivered them all to the 4th suite. I could be wrong, and I hope I am.

I never claimed he got credit for the same stop twice. Just that 1 person can sign for more than 1 stop and have it still counted as more than 1. You originally claimed otherwise. Left at is there for a reason - to indirect packages. Which you should get credit for. The exception might be an apartment building where everything gets delivered to 1 location and you don't go to every individual stop to leave notes. Then it would all only count as 1 stop.

 

[Trucker Clock]

I never claimed he got credit for the same stop twice. Just that 1 person can sign for more than 1 stop and have it still counted as more than 1. You originally claimed otherwise. Left at is there for a reason - to indirect packages. Which you should get credit for. The exception might be an apartment building where everything gets delivered to 1 location and you don't go to every individual stop to leave notes. Then it would all only count as 1 stop.

You are correct, and I didn't mention this scenario. Because I don't think this is what happened. If he attempts 3 suites and indirects them to a 4th without completing the other 3 stops, he does get credit for 4 stops with 1 signature. I did not mention that because it does not seem to be what happened. If it was, we would not be talking about this right now. He would not have been discharged.

It seems he either took credit for the first 3 stops, then took additional credit for the 3 stops when he indirected them, or did not even make an attempt at the first 3 stops and took credit for 4 stops when he only made 1.

Again, I hope I am wrong, but since they upheld the discharge locally, I fear the worst.

 

[Trucker Clock]

I would add part of the whole purpose of discipline is revenge and often spite mixed with sometimes hate.

Only for a problem child, or to set an example.

BTW, was this not you?

Say, aren't you RETIRED?

Say, aren't you retired and of no consequence to anything at UPS?

Aren't you retired and not relevant here?

I could probably find it, but I'm not going to waste my time. Point proven. But I think you made a comment to @UpstateNYUPSer(Ret) something about when you retire, you will never post here again.

Hippocrite comes to mind. And no, I am not bullying. Just stating the obvious.

 

[Trucker Clock]

Clearly, no one can get confused by any of this L O L.

I sure hope he does not try this defense at the panel. It would just piss them off. LOL.

If you make an attempt at a stop, it is a stop. If you make an additional attempt at the same stop, it is a duplicate stop.

If you deliver multiple stops to one location, without attempting the original stop, it is only 1 stop. If you attempted all the other multiple stops and completed them, and then indirected all of them, they are duplicates, not additional stops.

You do not get credit for more than 1 stop at the same address. Now, if we go back later in the day, most of us just sheet it as an additional stop without hitting duplicate. That's fine occasionally, but I don't think that's why the OP got fired or that he constantly does it.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I sure hope he does not try this defense at the panel. It would just piss them off. LOL.

If you make an attempt at a stop, it is a stop. If you make an additional attempt at the same stop, it is a duplicate stop.

If you deliver multiple stops to one location, without attempting the original stop, it is only 1 stop. If you attempted all the other multiple stops and completed them, and then indirected all of them, they are duplicates, not additional stops.

You do not get credit for more than 1 stop at the same address. Now, if we go back later in the day, most of us just sheet it as an additional stop without hitting duplicate. That's fine occasionally, but I don't think that's why the OP got fired or that he constantly does it.

It's not rocket science.

If his business agent is smart, he will have him prepare the shortest answer to every question, trying to explain that to people on the panel will surely get your testimony, in some sort of bind.

The correct answer is ..

“I’ve been here 23 years. I enjoy my job. I want to continue my career at UPS. I did not make these mistakes on purpose and I am willing to accept any training the company deemed necessary so they will not happen again.

And hand it back to the business agent who can close up his testimony with a right to rebutt anything else the company has if necessary.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Yep. I figured as much. Teamsters & panel are corrupt in many parts of the country.

Do not resign! Don't be a coward, and GO to panel. Get advice from the guys that were fired, and report back here, for ideas.

Also, for piece of mind, prepare to look for work. There are other companies that are union, a Teamster can work at.

Teamsters and panels are corrupt in many parts of the country? That’s a pretty sweeping statement do you have any evidence of that? Disagreeing with their decision, and calling them corrupt are quite a bit different. If in fact that they were corrupt, why would I tell him to sit in front of them? And if Teamsters are corrupt in many areas, why would you tell him to ask for work from them again should he lose his job? I’m not really debating you, that there’s possible corruption I’m just asking you do you have evidence of many? I don’t generally like to assume everyone is corrupt
Also, you might want to be aware that many of the panels have changed since new leader ship has taken over.

 

[Trucker Clock]

If his business agent is smart, he will have him prepare the shortest answer to every question, trying to explain that to people on the panel will surely get your testimony, in some sort of bind.

Yep. Short answers. Do not try and explain UPS procedures. Be humble and respectful, to both sides at the panel. Admit when you may have been wrong and commit to following procedures and not doing these issues again.

 

[Sissy Brown Short Shorts]

Believe me I'm listening BUT if I go to panel and they terminate me. I wonder how hard it would be to find another job because I was terminated. Sorry man I'm a thinker. Like I said I'm meeting with the BA tomorrow so we can go over those address. I'm 95% that I will go to the panel.

If you go to panel and get terminated you can at least get unemployment. If you voluntarily quit you’ll get nothing. Obviously not what you want to hear but that’s something to consider. Never resign. Nobody cares about prior employment. Businesses need bodies right now. 23 years of UPS employment is a golden ticket. They know you can hack tough work.

 

[Sissy Brown Short Shorts]

Agreed, new boards and program are garbage, mistakes are easy to make. Does anyone know to record a stop that has 2 packages, one of them being an sig req and the other can be dr’d, and the person not being home resulting in a not in 1 for the sig req pkg? Our center team doesn’t know how to and says to record them separately, which leads to 2 stops for the same address since there’s no duplicate stop option.

OP go down swinging so to speak, take it to panel, it can go either way. Very political on panel day depending on the cases heard that day. Good luck.

Correct here. I’m doing double stops all the time because I don’t know how to sheet one of two a NI1 and DR the other one.