Government Motors

[brett636]

LOL, I used to drive trucks for a beer delivery company which had a CNG truck and a propane truck. Fueling them up was a major PITA, and performance was poor.

I see your point however.

Nevertheless, we'll have to agree to disagree: I believe that there is a role for government in the regulation of many things, fuel standards being one of them. Are they going about it correctly? Likely not, but the 'invisible hand' just hasn't really been working all that well lately, eh?

Leaving everything to market forces doesn't seem to be the answer. You may counter that we just haven't left enough to market forces and that the gooberment's involvement all along the way has been the real problem.

For example, deregulating the financial industry and Wall Street has been a super success...

The trucking industry is already moving to CNG powered trucks. Truck stops across the country are investing in CNG pumps as the number of CNG powered big rigs increase across the country. This isn't the government at work, but the free market moving towards cheaper and more efficient energy sources. Kinda blows a hole in your "the invisible hand doesn't work" argument doesn't it?

Its also intellectually dishonest to suggest financial deregulation has lead to the most recent financial problems. Quite to the contrary it has been proven that government interference has led to this most recent economic downturn, and not the markets themselves.

 

[brett636]

Get propane and natural gas out of your mind, until it's actually 100% relaible and 100% safe.
We have tons of propane powered vehicles here. I even won one.
They are useless in the brutal winter (gas will freeze up - even in the middle of driving).
You're not allowed to park in any indoor parkade (parking garage).
And the fuel tanks need to be inspected every 5 years, and every 10 years replaced. - Pain in the butt !

Savings ? Propane cost almost just as much as gas - but yes, better milage by about 20-25% (if it's not winter time).

Besides, with you're terrorists alerts in the US, how would you like a vehicle rigged for explosion with 50 gallons or more of gas content in it !
Just a matter of time !

First off, nothing is 100% safe. Secondly, we already have CNG powered vehicles on our roads, and the only thing stopping more of them from being on our roads is lack of fueling stations. I would probably own one myself, and could easily complete my normal driving in a CNG powered vehicle until I wanted to go on a road trip and then things get tricky. The free market is already making it economically feasible for truck stops to have CNG pumps, and I imagine if that trend continues we will see them at more regular fueling stations as well. About 2 weeks ago I ran across a CNG powered Ford Fusion, and I wasn't even aware that ford made a CNG powered fusion. About an hour and a half drive from me is a Honda plant where Honda builds its CNG powered civic that it sells across the nation. CNG can replace all foreign oil sources, and we have more than 100 years worth on tap with 3 to 4 times that in untapped reserves. We don't need the middle east. Its our government that is keeping the addiction alive and nothing else.

 

[klein]

Willing to take that chance, and not getting much more then 100.000 miles out of your Natural or Propane vehicle ?
Besides, not being able to start it up under 32F ? And if you do manage to get it started and running - it still can suddenly freeze up on you while driving, too !

Using LPG increases the fuel efficiency of the vehicle as LPG has a high octane value. It causes less corrosion of the engine because less water is vaporised, however, not everybody is aware of the safety risks and conservation issues that surround it. Being a flammable gas, LPG is potentially hazardous. The major disadvantage of using LPG in a vehicle is that because it doesn't use lead or any other substitute for combustion, it damages the valves, resulting in a decrease of the life of the engine. Moreover, as it is a low-density energy fuel, in comparison to petrol or diesel, LPG is consumed more but because of the subsidised rates available, it proves to be a lot cheaper.

Further, LPG is not recommended for mountains or any kind of rough terrain as it does not provide power and torque to the vehicle, as with other fuels. Using LPG means the vehicle drives 20% less than with other sources of fuel, resulting in more frequent refuelling. In contrast to petrol or diesel vehicles, starting is always a problem with LPG driven vehicles under 32 degrees Fahrenheit (cold conditions), because at lower temperatures it has a lower vapor pressure. It is considered to be eco-friendly as it reduces the emission of carbon dioxide by more than 40 percent.

Better do more research before you buy one - this is my second propane powered cargo van. It sits all winter long, and yes, they are gutless, too !

 

[brett636]

Willing to take that chance, and not getting much more then 100.000 miles out of your Natural or Propane vehicle ?
Besides, not being able to start it up under 32F ?

Um, yea, none of that is true, but coming from a hot dog vendor I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Necropostophiliac]

Um, yea, none of that is true, but coming from a hot dog vendor I can't say I'm surprised.

2 billion a year are sold. Can not fault that record.
Hot Dog Carts Sell Two Billion Hot Dogs a Year and Are a Prime Business Startup Opportunity, Says Shoestring Publishing in a New Course

The U.S. Hot Dog Council estimates that 15% of the approximately 10 billion hot dogs consumed by Americans last year
were purchased from a mobile hot dog vendor cart.
Hot dog cart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[klein]

This wasn't even that bad, luckily the hoses to the propane tanke gave in, before the entire tank did !

Fire Sacrifice on Canada Route 4.mp4 - YouTube

 

[klein]

2 billion a year are sold. Can not fault that record.
Hot Dog Carts Sell Two Billion Hot Dogs a Year and Are a Prime Business Startup Opportunity, Says Shoestring Publishing in a New Course

The U.S. Hot Dog Council estimates that 15% of the approximately 10 billion hot dogs consumed by Americans last year
were purchased from a mobile hot dog vendor cart.
Hot dog cart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For a sunday, selling 6 dozen today, was great.
I think I'll see closer to 10 dozen tomorrow, and after labour day (back to school), probably 15 dozen at basically $4.00 a piece, plus drinks, corn, baked potatoes, and german smoked porkchops with Sauerkraut.
Also got cream cheese cinamon rolls, and Tim Horton's coffee !
I'm loving it !

Btw, I don't think the above cart would be health inspected legal here.
You need to have atleast 1 10"x12" sink for utinsil washing, and 1 10x10" for hand-washing, complete with hot and cold running water.
I don't see that on that cart !

 

[BrownArmy]

Its also intellectually dishonest to suggest financial deregulation has lead to the most recent financial problems. Quite to the contrary it has been proven that government interference has led to this most recent economic downturn, and not the markets themselves.

Again, let's agree to disagree.

I'm sure neither one of us could be convinced to come around to the others viewpoint.

My father has a refrigerator magnet that says, "We have charts and graphs, so **** off!"

I'm sure both of us could come up with 'charts and graphs' to illustrate our points, but at the bottom of it we simply have a different worldview.

While I don't always agree with your positions, I always enjoy your posts.

BA

 

[Babagounj]

[h=2]GM suspending Chevrolet Volt output due to slow sales[/h]Automotive News, citing unnamed sources, reports the Detroit-Hamtramck plant from Sept. 17 until Oct. 15. Leaders of the United Auto Workers union told the plant's 1,500 workers about the scheduled downtime last week, the source said.

 

[Necropostophiliac]

GM suspending Chevrolet Volt output due to slow sales

Automotive News, citing unnamed sources, reports the Detroit-Hamtramck plant from Sept. 17 until Oct. 15. Leaders of the United Auto Workers union told the plant's 1,500 workers about the scheduled downtime last week, the source said.

That will be twice this year if I remember correctly.

6 March there was a five week stoppage.
Chevy Volt: Why production was halted and what it means - The Washington Post

Now 1 September for 4 weeks
Chevrolet Volt production to halt in September | TheGreenCarWebsite.co.uk

 

[scratch]

GM built its last small truck in Shreveport, LA the other day. Another GM plant shuts down and thousands lose their jobs. I didn't see anything about that in the news this past week.

 

[moreluck]

When Figures Lie: Chevy Volt Puts the Government in Government Motors - John Ransom - Townhall Finance Conservative Columnists and Financial Commentary - Page 1

 

[moreluck]

I was watching Private Parts this morning and there were several Malibu ads.

 

[Babagounj]

[h=1]GM cancels next-gen hybrid truck/SUV program[/h]According to a report from GMInsideNews.com, General Motors has shut down its hybrid program for company's next-generation of full-size pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles. Currently, the Chevrolet Silverado, Tahoe, GMC Sierra, Yukon and Cadillac Escalade all use the two-mode hybrid technology.

Historically, the two-mode hybrid models have not sold well, and only yield minor improvements in overall fuel economy. In most applications, the two-mode hybrid system is rated at 20 miles per gallon in the city and 23 mpg highway.

GMI reports that it's unusual for programs like this to be shut down so close to the launch of a new vehicle – the next-generation trucks/SUVs are scheduled to debut for the 2014 model year – but that many sources within GM are not surprised about the move. These new full-size hybrids were reportedly supposed to use an updated two-mode system, featuring a smaller displacement V8 engine, upgraded battery storage (using a more modern lithium-ion pack) and revamped electric motors, according to GMI.

 

[moreluck]

GENERAL MOTORS CO, $21.10 down 1 pct. (0955 ET)

The U.S. automaker began initial production of its first ever Chinese-designed car for the Indian market this week, a major
step for the company as it tries to scale up in a market where foreign companies have struggled.


So foreign companies have struggled there and you think you know better, Right.

Wait that’s right you are Government Motors and the government keeps on trying to invest in businesses that just fail right after each other like Solyndra, silly me.

 

[Babagounj]

[h=1]Insight: GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs[/h]

(Reuters) - General Motors Co sold a record number of Chevrolet Volt sedans in August — but that probably isn't a good thing for the automaker's bottom line.
Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds, according to estimates provided to Reuters by industry analysts and manufacturing experts.
Cheap Volt lease offers meant to drive more customers to Chevy showrooms this summer may have pushed that loss even higher. There are some Americans paying just $5,050 to drive around for two years in a vehicle that cost as much as $89,000 to produce.
And while the loss per vehicle will shrink as more are built and sold, GM is still years away from making money on the Volt, which will soon face new competitors from Ford, Honda and others.
GM's basic problem is that "the Volt is over-engineered and over-priced," said Dennis Virag, president of the Michigan-based Automotive Consulting Group.
It currently costs GM "at least" $75,000 to build the Volt, including development costs .
Other estimates range from $76,000 to $88,000, according to four industry consultants contacted by Reuters. The consultants' companies all have performed work for GM and are familiar with the Volt's development and production.

 

[menotyou]

If they want to give me one, I'd drive it.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Insight: GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs

Since the tax payers bailed out GM, and they cant sell them, then they should just give them out to everyone who PAYS taxes. Of course they would have to be equipped with a automatic fire extinguishing system.

 

[menotyou]

Since the tax payers bailed out GM, and they cant sell them, then they should just give them out to everyone who PAYS taxes. Of course they would have to be equipped with a automatic fire extinguishing system.

I'll risk it. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[moreluck]

Taxpayers to get charged as Pentagon buys up Chevy Volts | Fox News