Ground to absorb Express

[Code 82 Approved]

Here is the flat out truth to everyone that quotes these monetary hourly figures. You may make $28 an hour, UPS may make $34 an hour, it is good that you can make that money in this type of industry. You think that money brings a much different class of employee, but it does not. You see that you make $28 an hour and no one would do it for $12, $14, $18.......you have that assumption because that is what you are told you can make. I had employees that were running 120-150 stops that spanned multiple express and UPS areas they delivered ridiculous OS packages daily out of completely bulked out 1200s, many that were starting out did it for $13 an hour. They give us more work we put on another truck and add an employee so that most customers are getting what they ordered in the 1-3 days Ground wants and we get everything delivered everyday it shows up.
My guys made a lot less some liked there jobs way more than most on this site making a lot more others didn't. But when I can hire 1.5-2 employees at the same cost as 1 of yours and get the job done with a lot bigger packages, why is that not feasible?
Main point is the perception of pay for performance is no where close to as big of a reality when all you know is doing the job at 25-50% less and not told you will make $28 an hour.
I am not saying that this is right or fair for employees because it is not, the compensation to the contractor is not fair but we have to do what we can to make a sustainable business. Break down the avg wage of non CDL delivery drivers it is easy to see UPS and Express (to an extent) is the exception to the wages not the standard.

I think I started at $550/week cash a decade ago.
FDX put the end to that in year 2 for me, by then I was up to $650
A contractor move put me into my full time route I did for 7 yrs, I think I topped at $750. Running another pm route had me at 1.5x during a maternity cover.
I jumped when he lost his contract and made it to $800
He promoted me to a position supervising and being the rescue driver to $850
I jumped again to work for a lot more to do a lot less. I drive about 10 hrs a week.

 

[dvalleyjim]

It couldn't happen now for sure. They are still configuring continuous ISP areas and combining Ground and HD. After this happens, and if it is successful, then I could see Ground picking up a lot more Express. But we are talking what? 10 years and anything can happen by then.

 

[Gone fishin]

I actually heard mention of express picking up regional ground service in an effort to ramp up productivity. It makes sense as amazon continues to be phased out

 

[SmithBarney]

There is a lot to what you say but until the RLA is done away with I doubt we'll see a contractor model at Express. And I've been told many times over the years that the FAA requires trained regular employees to handle freight until it arrives at it's destination. Ground may very well handle delivery and turn Express into a part-time pickup service. Would be interesting to see Express pickup all Express and Ground freight, with contractors handling delivery. That would comply with the FAA, require considerably less Express employees, or at least less hours, and would be a much more integrated customer experience. Does feel like something is coming other than having all purple and orange. But they can't just drop all of this into contractors' laps, so if they haven't shared info with contractors yet then it's going to be awhile, if ever.

All Contractors have to do is stay away from Airports. FAA complaint employees will bring freight from airports to stations. We already do this with cartage agents to deliver or transfer packages... it wouldn't be a huge step, although it would be a huge PR nightmare, but if FDX lets everyone "KEEP" their jobs, just with new bosses(ie CSP) it wouldn't be impossible. But I trust that if it could be done smoothly, and or without a huge legal headache, FDX would have tried it already...

 

[MAKAVELI]

but if FDX lets everyone "KEEP" their jobs, just with new bosses(ie CSP) it wouldn't be impossible.

Not possible. FedEx would have to lay off everyone and those who want to stay would have to reapply to an individual contractor. Fedex would be on the hook for thousands of layoffs and unemployment.

 

[It will be fine]

All Contractors have to do is stay away from Airports. FAA complaint employees will bring freight from airports to stations. We already do this with cartage agents to deliver or transfer packages... it wouldn't be a huge step, although it would be a huge PR nightmare, but if FDX lets everyone "KEEP" their jobs, just with new bosses(ie CSP) it wouldn't be impossible. But I trust that if it could be done smoothly, and or without a huge legal headache, FDX would have tried it already...

It wasn't feasible with single van contractors. You couldn't add 30-50% to daily stop counts without having to find more contractors. With the ISP model it's a little different. They can tell me it's coming and it's up to me to find the extra trucks and drivers to handle it.

 

[Code 82 Approved]

It wasn't feasible with single van contractors. You couldn't add 30-50% to daily stop counts without having to find more contractors. With the ISP model it's a little different. They can tell me it's coming and it's up to me to find the extra trucks and drivers to handle it.

But the "accuracy" isn't guaranteed!
Countless times I track inbound and freak out only to have pre-load stage ghosts of 1500 packages.
But that's the magic of proactivity.
6p's : Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Maybe it will eventually be a trickle -up trend.

 

[bacha29]

It couldn't happen now for sure. They are still configuring continuous ISP areas and combining Ground and HD. After this happens, and if it is successful, then I could see Ground picking up a lot more Express. But we are talking what? 10 years and anything can happen by then.

It wasn't feasible with single van contractors. You couldn't add 30-50% to daily stop counts without having to find more contractors. With the ISP model it's a little different. They can tell me it's coming and it's up to me to find the extra trucks and drivers to handle it.

Important point indeed. Contractors are now asking themselves the question......"How much more money am I going to have to throw at this thing, when am I going to have to do it, what will the returns be and when will it finally reach the tipping point when the end no longer justifies the means". The thing about the entire experience that outraged me the most was X's complete disregard for the fact that you as a third party entity had to put money sometimes a lot of money in the hat just to get dragged along behind them with absolutely no control over the flow of events that transpired afterward.

 

[MassWineGuy]

My manager said he's heard nothing about Express being "absorbed." I trust him, too.

 

[Artee]

I never said anything about the company downsizing. The company is growing and doing quite well actually. All I stated was the reallocation of where they may want to shift the costs going forward between Ground and Express. I spoke to an Express guy that lives in my area just the other day and he told me they were not hiring anyone or purchasing any new vehicles. Went to one of my mechanics who has a lot of connections to people who work on those Express vehicles and was told the same thing in a different area too. Why do you think that is? Also, what would be the purpose behind the brand imaging change? To confuse more people? I'm just stating my perspective of what I have seen so far.

One thing you have to keep in mind with Express is that it is different between every district, every region, and even different between locations. There have been countless stories over the years where some locations are bringing in new trucks like crazy and at the same time another location cannot even order a uniform shirt. When they close stations its not a decision that was made 3 months prior. Many times its been talked about for a couple years especially when they know they are not going to renew the current lease. There have been a couple stations closed down in large metro areas and Express has formed Superstations, basically running two stations out of one location.

The end of the fiscal year is coming up in a few months and probably much of Express is in budget saving mode right now. Happens every year. I know we are. The spending will start up again come June 1st. One local station is hiring couriers like crazy and half are coming off the street in the last year. We have hired 5 RT drivers in the last 6 months with a couple full time upgrades posted last week, which means a couple more PT JCATS postings coming up soon. The other side of the country might have a bunch of drivers sitting around with nothing to do. When it comes to Express, you just cannot talk to the driver, managers, mechanics in your area and think that what they are seeing translates to what is happening at Express nationwide. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[STFXG]

Youngin, you sound like you don't understand your contract. It has an end date. FedEx doesn't care how much you have invested. If they decide to end the contractor model they just have to wait for your contract to expire. What grounds would there be for a lawsuit?

 

[Fred's Myth]

Box arrives in town. Box gets to our terminal. Box goes on truck. Box gets delivered. What's the big difference if box gets to town on a plane or a truck?

Only simpletons believe what you are saying is accurate. The day Fedex eliminates time of day guaranteed service is the day Express will be replaced by Ground.

 

[59 Dano]

I'll take that as you have no idea what the difference is. Thanks for playing.

Sure I do. Saw two operations go to pot under the guise that it doesn't matter if the box comes to town on a plane or a truck. I never said that FedEx was my only dance partner in the package delivery industry.

 

[bacha29]

The ego maniacs at Express can look down their noses at Ground for as long as it pleases them but it might not be a good idea to do it for long. Why? There might just be a new dog in the fight in the not too distant future. Who might that be? Bezos? Yeah he'll be around. How about XPO Logistics? Granted they had to borrow a reservoir full of money to buy out Conway but they're getting it paid off . Stock price going up margins are improving and they are also benefiting from E-Commerce. Yes I know Denial 59 Fred's Myth and Old Fart will laugh and make fun of the rest of us but I think that all it would take is just one more formidable competitor to move into a market that doesn't need another one to bring about a lot of changes in the way the rest operate.

 

[59 Dano]

Biggest difference Deutsch Bank invested a billion dollars, when they realized to build a UPS/Fedex infrastructure it was not a billion but billionS of dollars more to compete, they abandoned it. FedEx already has the infrastructure and billions into it. This is an apples and oranges comparison in regards to fianancials, existing market, existing infrastructure, and pre existing market share.

There was already the ABX infrastructure (later combined with that of DHL) which had been in place for years, along with its own airplort. ABX's percentage of lates was more than triple that of FedEx/UPS despite having later commit times. DHL was in love with the idea of a contractor model and bought ABX, then fired a ton of employees in favor of contractors. Service issues got worse with the introduction of a 1030 service.

It became clear at some point that the infrastructure improvements weren't offsetting the service issues and it only got worse from there.

 

[59 Dano]

The ego maniacs at Express can look down their noses at Ground for as long as it pleases them but it might not be a good idea to do it for long. Why? There might just be a new dog in the fight in the not too distant future. Who might that be? Bezos? Yeah he'll be around. How about XPO Logistics? Granted they had to borrow a reservoir full of money to buy out Conway but they're getting it paid off . Stock price going up margins are improving and they are also benefiting from E-Commerce. Yes I know Denial 59 Fred's Myth and Old Fart will laugh and make fun of the rest of us but I think that all it would take is just one more formidable competitor to move into a market that doesn't need another one to bring about a lot of changes in the way the rest operate.

How many years of experience do you have in Express operations and at what level?

 

[Star B]

DHL was in love with the idea of a contractor model and bought ABX, then fired a ton of employees in favor of contractors.

Serious question, are the majority of DHLs couriers contracted? The ones that are running around here are.

 

[bacha29]

How many years of experience do you have in Express operations and at what level?

You just don't seem to get it. You guys act like your beloved company is and always will be in a market entirely of it's own making and will never have to contend with a competitive new entrant in that space.

 

[Oldfart]

You just don't seem to get it. You guys act like your beloved company is and always will be in a market entirely of it's own making and will never have to contend with a competitive new entrant in that space.

Airborne, Emory, Purolator and DHL. All shipping companies that have come and somewhat gone during my time. A couple have International presence but not so much domestically.

 

[Fred's Myth]

The ego maniacs at Express can look down their noses at Ground for as long as it pleases them but it might not be a good idea to do it for long. Why? There might just be a new dog in the fight in the not too distant future. Who might that be? Bezos? Yeah he'll be around. How about XPO Logistics? Granted they had to borrow a reservoir full of money to buy out Conway but they're getting it paid off . Stock price going up margins are improving and they are also benefiting from E-Commerce. Yes I know Denial 59 Fred's Myth and Old Fart will laugh and make fun of the rest of us but I think that all it would take is just one more formidable competitor to move into a market that doesn't need another one to bring about a lot of changes in the way the rest operate.

Having a firm grasp of what I'm discussing, and not conjuring fairy tales, is not ego. If you haven't experienced Express and the Rube Goldberg intricacies of it, you are speaking from ignorance. Be careful what you wish for. That gold you reach for just might be your kryptonite.