HOFFA , HALL AND OBRIEN campaign announcement

[wide load]

H2 the izO!!!

 

[bleedinbrown58]

 

[Inthegame]

Worldport is still being built and has been in a constant state of expansion since it opened under its present name in 2002.
As it was explained to me when I visited, each expansion has pushed their employee parking further and further away from the employee entrances and security gates, as well as lengthening their shuttle rides to their work areas.
Whether this issue was brought up in previous negotiations, I don't know?
I am quite sure however, that if it wasn't, it certainly wasn't subject to any statute of limitations.
It was for sure a real problem and a hotbed issue in 2013-14, I saw it with my own eyes.

OK, but it is an airport. Do you know of any airports that have car parking on runways? Every large airport has parking issues. When the employees began working there, there were parking issues. Yes they have addressed issues somewhat in the past , i.e. "the 20 minute rule". UPS has put on new shuttles as negotiated. They also have new language providing monthly progress reports with arbitration remedies if problems persist.

With 18 supplements failing subsequently, it makes me suspicious of the whole "two man meeting" in general.
From what I have been able to ascertain, from multiple sources from several locals, is that this meeting was nothing more than an old school dog and pony show, equivalent to a high school pep assembly.
There was a whirlwind presentation followed by a quick overture to field questions, and before anybody had time to digest the previously undisclosed offer, a motion was brought to the floor and seconded to take this crappy contract back to the members and nobody opposed.
I figure most to either be too scared or too confused to mount an argument at that time.
Does that make Fred Z guilty of staying silent, yes, but again it doesn't make him special.
What makes him special is that he did have the guts to rise up against a concession filled contract after he had time to consider all that was presented.

This was a National Master two man, not a regional supplement explanation. Supplements failed but the NMA passed.
You must have heard of a different 2-man meeting. The meeting I witnessed had a two and a half plus hour deliberate presentation of the NM offer (by Ken H and several chairmen), with many questions asked and answered. Nobody was "cut short", but many chose not to ask anything, including every vocal "after the fact" opponent. Hmmm. Anyone with any wherewithal already read the entire offer before the meeting. Nobody was "scared or confused" and there wasn't any high school cheerleaders present.
Fred Z does have guts and he displayed his courage at the IBT Convention. So then why oh why did he not speak up when it could have made a difference?

I don't think having ambitions and goals are necessarily a bad thing?
Everybody in an elevated position of authority in our union had to have been in this position at one time or another.
It's grossly unfair to automatically consider a label of "someone with political ambitions" as something unsavory or underhanded.
Competition is healthy and a great motivator to those already in office.

I agree wholeheartedly, and you know I never said ambition and goals were a bad thing. Indeed it would be grossly unfair to automatically consider a label of "someone with political ambitions" as something unsavory or underhanded. Unless of course that sentiment was earned by using members as pawns for ones personal ambitions. Remember what the famous philosopher Bob Marley once said "who da cap fit, let dem wear it"...

 

[Lead Belly]

OK, but it is an airport. Do you know of any airports that have car parking on runways? Every large airport has parking issues. When the employees began working there, there were parking issues. Yes they have addressed issues somewhat in the past , i.e. "the 20 minute rule". UPS has put on new shuttles as negotiated. They also have new language providing monthly progress reports with arbitration remedies if problems persist.

This was a National Master two man, not a regional supplement explanation. Supplements failed but the NMA passed.
You must have heard of a different 2-man meeting. The meeting I witnessed had a two and a half plus hour deliberate presentation of the NM offer (by Ken H and several chairmen), with many questions asked and answered. Nobody was "cut short", but many chose not to ask anything, including every vocal "after the fact" opponent. Hmmm. Anyone with any wherewithal already read the entire offer before the meeting. Nobody was "scared or confused" and there wasn't any high school cheerleaders present.
Fred Z does have guts and he displayed his courage at the IBT Convention. So then why oh why did he not speak up when it could have made a difference?
I agree wholeheartedly, and you know I never said ambition and goals were a bad thing. Indeed it would be grossly unfair to automatically consider a label of "someone with political ambitions" as something unsavory or underhanded. Unless of course that sentiment was earned by using members as pawns for ones personal ambitions. Remember what the famous philosopher Bob Marley once said "who da cap fit, let dem wear it"...

It's a waste of time to explain it here but I give you points for trying. No matter what hat you say they won't listen.

 

[Bubblehead]

It's a waste of time to explain it here but I give you points for trying. No matter what hat you say they won't listen.

So how many points do give yourself for giving him points for explaining to those who won't listen?

Give me T, give me an E, give me an A, give me a M, give me a S, give me a T, give me an E, give me a R, give me a S!!!!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I spell it a bit differently.

 

[Lead Belly]

So how many points do give yourself for giving him points for explaining to those who won't listen?

Give me T, give me an E, give me an A, give me a M, give me a S, give me a T, give me an E, give me a R, give me a S!!!!!

You could be given the keys to everything you want to know and you would still find some conspiracy. It's What makes you the unique person you are.

 

[Bubblehead]

You could be given the keys to everything you want to know and you would still find some conspiracy. It's What makes you the unique person you are.

Perhaps if they weren't under lock and key, I wouldn't be predisposed to look for the conspiracy?
Is transparency really too much to ask?

 

[wide load]

Ahhhhh, the old transparency debate.

 

[Bubblehead]

Ahhhhh, the old transparency debate.

Not $90, not $9, not 9 cents.
hall knew damn well when he said that where it was going.

 

[Inthegame]

Not $90, not $9, not 9 cents.
hall knew damn well when he said that where it was going.

And to be fair as I know you always try to be, he was refering to the co-premiums. You know, what management employees already pay.

 

[Lead Belly]

Perhaps if they weren't under lock and key, I wouldn't be predisposed to look for the conspiracy?
Is transparency really too much to ask?

Nothing is under lock and key. You can see it you just don't want to look.

 

[10 point]

And to be fair as I know you always try to be, he was refering to the co-premiums. You know, what management employees already pay.

It's been a while since I've seen any management getting shoulder surgery, knees and hips replaced.

Unless they fell on the golf course... that is.

 

[Bubblehead]

And to be fair as I know you always try to be, he was refering to the co-premiums. You know, what management employees already pay.

I would still love to know where the actuaries predicted the Central States Health Care Fund to be 5, 10 or 15 years down the road without the massive infusion it got with this contract?
We have covered the difference between the Central States Pension Fund and the Central States Healthcare Fund ad nauseam.
While I realize that there is a difference in the two, I find it hard to believe that there weren't similar dynamics in play.
The bar graph circulating in regards to participation in the Central Region Pension shows the disparity between active participants and retirees, retirees greatly outnumbering active participants.

I am probably the exception, but if this is what was needed to save healthcare for our union as a whole, I think I would have chose to be a martyr.

I just have a huge problem when someone pisses on my shoes and then tries to convince me that it is raining.

 

[Bubblehead]

And to be fair as I know you always try to be, he was refering to the co-premiums. You know, what management employees already pay.

I took it to also include annual deductibles.
He counted on most to not consider where this $99.09 was to be extracted and sold us on the premise that we would not accept anything less than what we had. That didn't work out for any of us starting in 2017, when we will all have an unprecedented annual deductible.
$200/$400 will be the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Inthegame]

While I realize that there is a difference in the two, I find it hard to believe that there weren't similar dynamics in play.
The bar graph circulating in regards to participation in the Central Region Pension shows the disparity between active participants and retirees, retirees greatly outnumbering active participants.

The obligation/liability works in reverse. Pension pays post 65 with continuing spousal coverage, whereas H&W obligation ends at medicare (unless you have a really good H&W plan that keeps your coverage post 65).

 

[Bubblehead]

The obligation/liability works in reverse. Pension pays post 65 with continuing spousal coverage, whereas H&W obligation ends at medicare (unless you have a really good H&W plan that keeps your coverage post 65).

Why the annual deductibles then in 2017, if the fund was in a good place?

 

[Inthegame]

Why the annual deductibles then in 2017, if the fund was in a good place?

Two reasons I can think of...
1) projected continuing rising H&W costs.
2) disincentive to go in for a hangnail.

 

[Lead Belly]

It's been a while since I've seen any management getting shoulder surgery, knees and hips replaced.

Unless they fell on the golf course... that is.

I had a manager that had two knees replaced. He got a staph infection and almost died.

 

[10 point]

I had a manager that had two knees replaced. He got a staph infection and almost died.

That's nasty.