Well I guess I was excited for nothing. Just found out yesterday it was a deadlock now it goes to arbitration. I am not even sure what the heck that is. So does that mean I will be needing those cobra papers? After everything that came up and I had 100% proof that my center manager set me up. They couldn't even refute it at the hearing, I can't believe that they can lie, falsify information, etc, and they get away with it. Yet I am still having to fight for my job. And in the meantime have to get another one. We don't have enough savings for me to stay off work for 3 more months. Also unemployment was denied. So does anyone know what happens now? And what is arbitration. My BA says it takes months.
How do you find out Place and time of panel level hearing? Help
- Thread starter jenltuli
- Start date
705red
Browncafe Steward
Go back and reapply for unemployment, they have to pay you. I would see if the union could get you another job for the time being. My friend arbitrations could take several years, most likely wont be over in 3 months. Keep your head up, dont get down, but look for other work asap, dhl loves to hire upsers!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Its where a third party will here your case and decide the outcome and penalty. Im not sure if i would use ups as a reference, because you dont want to tell your new employer its only a temporary job. Call the union, here we have a list of openings for other employers. I have seen ups buckle before the date and offer the job back but no back pay, this is your decision to make, but i can tell you that almost everyone caves in and thats why ups deadlocks these cases. Its hard as a upser to chance their job over a back pay issue and msot just give in, but if people would just see the process through this wouldnt be happening over and over again.
I wish you well in your future and keep your head up!
tieguy
Banned
If you have 100 percent proof that the center manager set you up then why waste your time trying to get your job back. Do you still have that lawyer following you around. Have him file a lawsuit for a couple of million dollars and you can retire with your 100 percent proof.
my friend you really need to get off the center manager set you up because you're a somoan kick. Or someday you go to work and get yourself fired again. You made some mistakes that you need to fix for the future. You can't rectify fixing mistakes if you convince yourself that you did not make any.
TIE GUY you have no idea what you are talking about. The mistakes i made are there, But you don't know the whole story!!!! Why do you read this and post if you have such disdain for anything that doesn't match your perfect little ideas? THE center manager DID SET ME UP! This even came out at the hearing. He pulled the package off my truck on the 18th. He never put it back on!!!!!!!!!! Then the customer complained and Then my supervisor delivered the package to her. Now how could that complaint go on me? I did not have the package on the 19th or 20th. THE center manager DID!
He also lied to lm about a misrecorded address!!!!!!! That also came out at the meeting. So again you have no idea what you are talking about! You say that you want to give sound advice etc etc, however you are just being rude! Thank you for your help, I just realized that gee everything in my life happened only because I am samoan. BTW tie guy you never seem to answer any of the questions I have asked you why is that? EVEN though you sigh at me. THanks for your help mista tie
He also lied to lm about a misrecorded address!!!!!!! That also came out at the meeting. So again you have no idea what you are talking about! You say that you want to give sound advice etc etc, however you are just being rude! Thank you for your help, I just realized that gee everything in my life happened only because I am samoan. BTW tie guy you never seem to answer any of the questions I have asked you why is that? EVEN though you sigh at me. THanks for your help mista tie
tieguy
Banned
I only know what you tell me and now your story has changed. Like I said if you have 100 percent proof like you now claim then an easy two million should be yours as soon as you file your lawsuit.
If however you recorded three addresses you never went to because you could not find them and you then recorded them as not in 1's as you previously told us, then you may just have to realize that you made some serious mistakes that you need to learn from.
The problem jen is I want to believe you. I want to believe you're fighting for your job becaue some guy don't like you and he decided to falisify a case against you of you falisifying deliveries but your story keeps changing as we go.
You previously admitted that you recorded three addresses lookups you never found as not in 1's. That is falisfying deliveries. You acknowledged doing it as a mistake and you said you took full responsibility for it. full responsibility for falsifying deliveries unfortunately is losing your job. Its like saying you take full responsibility for committing a murder. Nice to hear but you're still going to jail.
So as I previously said you need to do some soul searching and learn from your mistakes.
My story has never changed. The three ni1's I could not find the address. But the one that started this whole thing is the one that the customer complained it was also an ni1 and she was NOT there! That package was on my truck on the 18th of June. On the 19th and the 20th it was not on my truck! Infact on the 20th I was on a different route. I found a report in the file they gave me at the center hearing and I did not know what it was. I asked even on this I think? What the heck was that printout and what did it mean. Come to find out it is a sup report it was pulled on the 19th by the tracking number and the package was in the building but that package showed nothing for the 19th at ups.com under tracking. At the hearing they admitted to having the package(the one that started ALL of this.) The LM did not know this only my sup and the center manager. The only thing they said about it to refute it is that Yes they were "auditing" 5 people and I was one of them. Now, That was the only send again on that day. I have never had a customer complaint and have never been in any trouble. I told them when they started the "investigation" what I did with those three send agains that I had. It was a mistake, I would settle for a warning or even a couple days suspension but to be terminated for a mistake that I was completely honest about? And with the investigation that started under false pretenses? It just doesn't seem right. I don't want to sue anyone. I retained the attny so that the union would help me and also to get my job back not to sue anyone. Next on one of the three packages my center manager said I was lying because I had previously made a delivery to that address. I had never been there before EVER. He said that I delivered there in the am and then in the afternoon I couldn't find it? I said no that doesn't make sense I looked all over for that address spent 30 minutes looking for it. As I was looking for it I came accross my next delivery and forgot to change the address. so it was misrecorded. I realized that when I was looking through the paperwork and reports, My sup and center manager never said a word about the misrecorded address at the center hearing to the LM, but when I brought it up at the hearing my sup whispered to the LM "yea that was a misrecorded address" So they knew the entire time but yet still made it look as though I was lying. He then had to tell everyone what he had said because he accidentally whispered it into the microphone. I am not for one minute saying that I don't deserve to be in trouble for the way I handled those 3 packages. But termination is ridiculous(SP) when I was completley honest about it! I have not changed my story, tell me where I changed my story. If you would like to go all the way back to FEB of '06 I can tell you alot more about discrimination, but I won't its to long and I want and wanted then to just look passed it. Also turning in wrong dates to the benefits center and messing up my insurance not once but twice when I wasn't switching jobs or anything at the time. And the benie center telling me that it came from management. How would you feel about that? But the job is my bread and butter and the benefits are extremely important to my family right now, my wife has almost died twice over the past 18 months, but that's beside the point. So now I have gone on and on I hope this answer's your questions.
tieguy
Banned
That mistake is why you are fired not the first incident. the first incident is really nothing to this case. But you recording three packages , three seperate stops as not in 1 when you never found the addresses is why you are in hot water. Your center manager and the LM believe you falsify delivery attempts and information based on those three attempts. The first incident is nothing. The three packages are everything in this case. Were you able to refute those three attempts in any way?
no I could not find them, in my lame brain mind at the time I was thinking i attempted because I attempted to find them, well that is not ni1. other than I had, had a really BAD day no could not refute that. However after talking to more drivers they have all said they have done that before. It doesn't make it right but even when they had been audited they never got anything more than talked to about it. Also on my termination letter it says that I am terminated due to the customer complaint and after investigating that they found that I falsified records/proven dishonesty. So really it has everything to do with that package. And I told them what I did. I was honest about it. Was that a mistake? Should I not have said anything about those? Well thats not me, I would rather sleep at night then to lie, because lying always bites people in the butt. I am clear before GOD and that is what I care about. Although I also want my name cleared that I am not proven dishonest.And as far as soul searching I am a born again Christian! How can you pass judgement?? You don't even know me. I really don't care if you don't believe me, its your attitude that bothers me. I would say you need to be talking to the Lord about how you try to correct people and judge people. We are to correct people but in Love not condemnation and Judgement.
My attny did say I have a discrimination lawsuit. Do you want to know what my response to that is? I DON'T WANT TO SUE! I just want my name cleared.
My attny did say I have a discrimination lawsuit. Do you want to know what my response to that is? I DON'T WANT TO SUE! I just want my name cleared.
tieguy
Banned
Believe me or don't believe me I would never do it again. But Tie let me ask you this: Yes i falsify records on the three(not intentionally) It was never intended to "get away with something" anyway....How can dishonesty be proven when I was honest about it? Also if I had no case to stand on why was it a deadlock? Why not uphold the termination?
From your point of view and your opinion what should I do? Let this go and get a different job? (although I am going to get a different job between now and when/if I get reinstated) Also two wrongs don't make a right. why is it ok for them to lie and falsify documents in their case against me if I shot myself in the first place? Why do some drivers get talked to about it and some get terminated? You said in a previous post that had you been the center manager you probably would have given a stern talking to about it. Why then can you do that and other center manager's cannot?
And if your intentions really are what you say they are, then I do thank you for your honesty.
From your point of view and your opinion what should I do? Let this go and get a different job? (although I am going to get a different job between now and when/if I get reinstated) Also two wrongs don't make a right. why is it ok for them to lie and falsify documents in their case against me if I shot myself in the first place? Why do some drivers get talked to about it and some get terminated? You said in a previous post that had you been the center manager you probably would have given a stern talking to about it. Why then can you do that and other center manager's cannot?
And if your intentions really are what you say they are, then I do thank you for your honesty.
tieguy
Banned
brownrodster
Well-Known Member
The point is that it was dishonest to sheet the 3 packages as n1 when in fact they were something else. You are now claiming that it's not dishonest because you admit to it. You are admitting to being dishonest. Hopefully you can convince them that you did it out of ignorance and/or lack of training.
I hope you get your job back.
Braveheart
Well-Known Member
Are you in the union?
Cole
Well-Known Member
If the ltr of temination only mentions the pkg that the customer called in on, then that is the only issue/pkg they are pursuing.m Why isn't the center manager on trial here?! The pkg has no disposition on the 19th after the center manager pulled it off the truck, and then was only delivered on the 20th illegally by a sup! Why? Because the center manager put it somewhere and forgot about it, it seems, so the sup had to deliver it! If the center manager dealt with it properly then it would have been delievered on the 19th. Why no disposition on the 19th? It should have been sheeted in some way, either missed, or left in building, etc...
tieguy
Banned
that point is totally irrelevant at this point. customer complaint got them looking. Once they looked they found three packages for the three seperate pickups that were falsified. Jen was nice enough to give them the information. They therefore had a complaint and investigated and believed they had someone who was not attempting deliveries and falsifying the information. thus the discharge. Jen has said the discharge is worded as such. Those are the three stakes in his heart. The other info is no longer relevant to the discharge except as the reason they looked further. keep in mind if Jen treats those three packages as address exceptions then the company has no reason to fire him.
Jen were you allowed to testify at the panel hearing or did your BA keep you from doing so?
that point is totally irrelevant at this point. customer complaint got them looking. Once they looked they found three packages for the three seperate pickups that were falsified. Jen was nice enough to give them the information. They therefore had a complaint and investigated and believed they had someone who was not attempting deliveries and falsifying the information. thus the discharge. Jen has said the discharge is worded as such. Those are the three stakes in his heart. The other info is no longer relevant to the discharge except as the reason they looked further. keep in mind if Jen treats those three packages as address exceptions then the company has no reason to fire him.
Jen were you allowed to testify at the panel hearing or did your BA keep you from doing so?
Tie, You are wrong it does very much still involve the first package. And my termination letter does not say anything about the other 3.
Here you go:
On June 20,2007 the company recieved a customer complaint regardig a reported attempted delivery. You were interviewed with yoiu union steward concerning this matter on June 21, 2007. The company has investigated your actions of June 19,2007(nothing happened on june 19 because I did not have that package which I proved at the hearing)and June 20,2007. The investigation concluded that your actions did constitue falsification of records/proven dishonesty.
It is for these reasons that your empoyment with UPS is terminated effective immediately under atricle 28, section 2, ot the WRT agreement.
sincerely,
Division manager
Now Tie tell me where that first package doesn't have anything to do with this when in fact it has everything to do with it. Also They knew damn well they didn't Just catch someone who falfisfies records, they knew exaclty what they were doing.
