In case you missed it....APWA press

[badpas]

But the representation or the lack there of, is the reason these two gentlemen created the APWA. So you see, the teamsters created the situation and have no one to blame but themselves.

Couldn't agree with you more on the representation issue. The local union that they come from should be called to task on this and not be reqarded with IBT jobs. Cripiani and Mc Gaha are a joke and have been for years but they have the ear of people at the IBT. If they had been doing their jobs and representing their members APWA would not be here now. Mc Gaha getting cush IBT job at over $100,000 a year is a disgrace. I've seen him in action and that is only after hours at the bar drinking crown royal. What a joke.

With that said don't get me wrong - APWA is not the answer. Those guys may mean well but they don't have a clue. How could they say the union offices would be inside the buildings? Do they think that UPS is going to give them office space in the buildings? Do they think that the Teamster buildings will just automatically come with the vote? (That is what the airline flight attendants association thought when they took over at Northwest Airlines. They were wrong.) APWA is not the answer. Getting involved in your local union and holding the elected official accountable is the way to handle poor representation. Maybe they APWA guys should rejoin the IBT and then run in their next local union election to get some experience at running a local before they try and take on an international level.[/quote]

Bd, I understand where you are coming from and can appreciate you enthusiasum on wanting to stick with the teamsters but don't call them a joke just yet. If you have been to a meeting you'll see these guys have got their acts together. But I can also say whoever said the apwa will have offices on ups property is misinformed. That will never happen. They will still have to find office space just like any new start up business would. But as far as sticking with the teamsters everybody has their own limits. Maybe its not that bad where you're from but in ohio representation is just the tip of the iceberg. As seen on just about any labor thread the teamsters have more to fix than they would ever try, or I may see in my career. Maybe its just easier to just whipe the slate clean then to try and fix it. I also blame myself a bit for getting into the game later instead of sooner. Nevertheless hearing may make a believer, if not nobody can say you didn't try. And lets not forget they are ups hourly employees who have been around longer than most and their ideas are to right all the wrongs not to just create fairytales. Just one more note, I know jon frum loves to hear it when brought up but the ups pilots did it for a lot less reasons and they ran their union out of the back of the presidents trunk. If they can do it, we can do it. No matter which way it turns out I just hope it suits the greater good and not just a few.

 

[sawdusttv]

Saw im actually enjoying talking to you lately, with that said van and danny have given up on the teamsters because they didnt like what was going on. Right? Do they think it gets easier running a union? There will be rough times, contracts, grievance panels, arbitrations, when they get upset will they run away from the problems like they have done in the past?

Red,
Van and Danny created the APWA, but if and when the APWA becomes our BA, there will be elections held and VAn and Danny may or may not be in charge any more. That will be totally up to the UPS employees.
I also, have enjoyed our talks, it is much better working together to try and figure this thing out than to be at each others throats all the time.

 

[barking dog]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Proof of the old adage, "Barking dogs can't bite".

I am still researching old records and newsletters concerning the attorneys travelling and when I find it I'll post it here. In the mean time I have researched old APWA newsletters and found the following:
Jul 2005 - When "Our experts" get us something that you need to know, we'll get that information to you asap. Question: Who decides what the workers need to know? Also, the voting directors, managers and executive staff are banned from posting on TNET and Browncafe. Another question: Just what are they trying to hide? Why is this new start up organizstion trying to muzzle it's own staff from the get go? This sounds like business as usual with the IBT.
Feb 2006 - APWA has "emloyeed 8 attorneys" and then Founding Charter members (FCM's) have the power to remove anyone from a stewards position to national officer. Question: Where is the money coming from to pay these 8 attorneys? Then, what is the requirement to be a FCM? All I could find is the payment of $150.00 gets you the FCM position.
Apr 2006 - newsletter states "our professionals" say they need a massive media campaign between the card signing and vote. Question: Who is funding this massive national media campaign? Where is the money coming from?
Aug 2006 - Hired "off duty" policemen to guard their meetings. Question: Once again, where is the money coming from?
Oct 2006 - The payment of $150.00 now would waive the payment of initiation fees after the vote. Initiation fees after the vote would be $225.00. Question: How will they even start to collect it or collect dues when there is no "Union Security Clause" in place. (Might want to talk to the defunct airline flight attendants asociation at Northwest about this one.)
Nov 2006 - willing to prosecute people who disrupt their meetings and give the reward money to APWA members. No question here - this is pretty self explanatory.

What I am trying to get at here is to give the workers enough information to get involved and active enough to check some of this stuff out. The old saying is history repeats itself and the history with national decertification votes here could be Northwest Airlines. Their IBT Local 2000 decerted and went with a flight attendants association. Immediately after the decert the assocation assumed the employer would continue to deduct dues and send them in to the new assocation. The employer llegally refused to do it because there had been no negotiations and there was no union security clause in place. In short, the new association never got off the ground because of lack of funds (no dues) and eventually failed. The end result is that the flight attendants got shafted by the failure of the association after the decert and they had to go looking for another union to come in and represent them. The IBT was approached about this and turned them down claiming they had their chance with the IBT and decerted. Last I heard was they were talking to the Communications Workers and trying to get them to step in. The Northwest flight attendants have had nothing but pay cuts and benefit cuts in the process of all of this.

The moral of the story here is be careful what you ask for - you might just get it.

 

[705red]

I haven't heard a thing about that, and (1) UPS isn't going to give them office space, (2) I doubt they would want to be in close quarters to the company.

Cole that was a statement wild goose said that he was told! Im not sure which thread its under because all the threads lead to the same debate just under different topics. It is in the labor forum!

 

[wildgoose]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

I am still researching old records and newsletters concerning the attorneys travelling and when I find it I'll post it here. In the mean time I have researched old APWA newsletters and found the following:
Jul 2005 - When "Our experts" get us something that you need to know, we'll get that information to you asap. Question: Who decides what the workers need to know? Also, the voting directors, managers and executive staff are banned from posting on TNET and Browncafe. Another question: Just what are they trying to hide? Why is this new start up organizstion trying to muzzle it's own staff from the get go? This sounds like business as usual with the IBT.
Feb 2006 - APWA has "emloyeed 8 attorneys" and then Founding Charter members (FCM's) have the power to remove anyone from a stewards position to national officer. Question: Where is the money coming from to pay these 8 attorneys? Then, what is the requirement to be a FCM? All I could find is the payment of $150.00 gets you the FCM position.
Apr 2006 - newsletter states "our professionals" say they need a massive media campaign between the card signing and vote. Question: Who is funding this massive national media campaign? Where is the money coming from?
Aug 2006 - Hired "off duty" policemen to guard their meetings. Question: Once again, where is the money coming from?
Oct 2006 - The payment of $150.00 now would waive the payment of initiation fees after the vote. Initiation fees after the vote would be $225.00. Question: How will they even start to collect it or collect dues when there is no "Union Security Clause" in place. (Might want to talk to the defunct airline flight attendants asociation at Northwest about this one.)
Nov 2006 - willing to prosecute people who disrupt their meetings and give the reward money to APWA members. No question here - this is pretty self explanatory.

What I am trying to get at here is to give the workers enough information to get involved and active enough to check some of this stuff out. The old saying is history repeats itself and the history with national decertification votes here could be Northwest Airlines. Their IBT Local 2000 decerted and went with a flight attendants association. Immediately after the decert the assocation assumed the employer would continue to deduct dues and send them in to the new assocation. The employer llegally refused to do it because there had been no negotiations and there was no union security clause in place. In short, the new association never got off the ground because of lack of funds (no dues) and eventually failed. The end result is that the flight attendants got shafted by the failure of the association after the decert and they had to go looking for another union to come in and represent them. The IBT was approached about this and turned them down claiming they had their chance with the IBT and decerted. Last I heard was they were talking to the Communications Workers and trying to get them to step in. The Northwest flight attendants have had nothing but pay cuts and benefit cuts in the process of all of this.

The moral of the story here is be careful what you ask for - you might just get it.

Barking dog our pilots would be a better scenario on how success of leaving the teamsters. Your comparing apples to oranges ? You have a troubling airline situation to a Prospering package company ! I do not know the financials but the pilots are flying and not complaining about any pension wooo`s and health insurance issues ! Same goes for the miami,Fla police department - there fund is prospering because they don`t have to carry the heavy teamsters on their back - all the money goes to their plan as to paying the teamsters to do it ! Obviously there you have to prospering groups that are much happier and financially better off now - so as to say whatever you wish for you might get - bring it on !

 

[mittam]

Cole that was a statement wild goose said that he was told! Im not sure which thread its under because all the threads lead to the same debate just under different topics. It is in the labor forum!

It's my understanding that the stewards will work in building. Their posiyion in the APWA will be much like the BA position currently under the teamsters. What they will do office ways, don't know.

 

[nospinzone]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Goose so you admit ups will allow you to have offices inside of all ups buildings? Ups will allow you to hold elections for apwa offices on their property also? Wow and how can we ever think ups isnt behind this? goose, goose, goose thanks for clearing that up for us!

Let's not start rumors now...

APWA will have a national headquarters with office and meeting space. The location of these offices has yet to be determined, but if it were me, I would put them in Atlanta across the street from corporate so that the APWA president can conveniently place his foot up Eskew's ass everytime they screw up.

The local business agents will have rental office space within their service area. However they will not be spending much time there as they will be on the road and in the buildings seeing their members on a continual basis. Meeting space will be rented on an as needed basis.

APWA will not have office space within UPS facilities.
"Silly rabbit. Tricks are for kids."

 

[705red]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Let's not start rumors now...

APWA will have a national headquarters with office and meeting space. The location of these offices has yet to be determined, but if it were me, I would put them in Atlanta across the street from corporate so that the APWA president can conveniently place his foot up Eskew's ass everytime they screw up.

The local business agents will have rental office space within their service area. However they will not be spending much time there as they will be on the road and in the buildings seeing their members on a continual basis. Meeting space will be rented on an as needed basis.

APWA will not have office space within UPS facilities.
"Silly rabbit. Tricks are for kids."

I did not start that alleged rumor, wildgoose STATED that, and has posted today after i repeated it and did not argue the point!

Now you bring up valid points, any idea how much monthly rentals will run the apwa? How about monthly meeting facilities? Or will we just cancel monthly meetings?

At half the monthly dues the apwa is promising i just cant see how we can afford all this!

 

[RockyRogue]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

APWA will have a national headquarters with office and meeting space. The location of these offices has yet to be determined, but if it were me, I would put them in Atlanta across the street from corporate so that the APWA president can conveniently place his foot up Eskew's ass everytime they screw up.

OK, this sounds great from that perspective but what about the proximity creating a conflict of interest? Or furthering the impression that APWA is controlled by UPS? I state for the hundreth time: APWA's credibility is at stake. After being certified, APWA is going to be under a multitude of microscopes: Federal labor, UPS stockholders and countless others. APWA WANTS TO AVOID QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS INTEGRITY AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Rocky

 

[nospinzone]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Now you bring up valid points, any idea how much monthly rentals will run the apwa? How about monthly meeting facilities? Or will we just cancel monthly meetings?

At half the monthly dues the apwa is promising i just cant see how we can afford all this!

These are valid concerns that, if important enough to you, you need to ask the officers. I am not an officer. I haven't spent time quoting prices to rent meeting space.

OK, this sounds great from that perspective but what about the proximity creating a conflict of interest? Or furthering the impression that APWA is controlled by UPS? I state for the hundreth time: APWA's credibility is at stake. After being certified, APWA is going to be under a multitude of microscopes: Federal labor, UPS stockholders and countless others. APWA WANTS TO AVOID QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS INTEGRITY AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Rocky

First off, Rocko.... This is my opinion.
But regardless, people will find any reason to accuse APWA of being in bed with UPS. But if the union can better do its job by being based in Atlanta, thats where they should be. If members suspect wrongdoing and conflict of interest, its because the ethics of the person in question have faltered. People's ethics may or may not falter regardless of what zip code their office is located.

 

[wildgoose]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

These are valid concerns that, if important enough to you, you need to ask the officers. I am not an officer. I haven't spent time quoting prices to rent meeting space.

First off, Rocko.... This is my opinion.
But regardless, people will find any reason to accuse APWA of being in bed with UPS. But if the union can better do its job by being based in Atlanta, thats where they should be. If members suspect wrongdoing and conflict of interest, its because the ethics of the person in question have faltered. People's ethics may or may not falter regardless of what zip code their office is located.

Red,Red,Red - the teamsters don`t do business in ups facilities ? They have grievence hearings at ups ? Yes of Course. Ups will not give office space to either but will do hearings. You can spin all you want and you know whats right but love to put your spin on things. I am not an officer for APWA but an advocate for a better uinion than what the Central States/Teamsters have to offer. I expect it to run more streamline and more cost effective than that of the teamsters. Better representation than we have had in the past. Red zone amendment is coming January 1st,2008 and we are in the red zone with that being we are in the worst category and have to restructure to get in the higher funding ratio`s . I would assume that cuts would be part of restructuring for the future ? Of course !

 

[705red]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Voting will take place in front of every UPS throughout the country and as for union halls the teamsters won`t need them ! Van and Danny have that taken care of wether it be in a building outside or on the inside of ups. I bet the operating cost will be a lot less ! They project the dues to be 1/2 of what they are now in 6 months of taking over. If they can operate on 1/2 of the teamsters budget people can see that ! IPA broke away from teamsters and seem to be still flying even higher financialily now. I wish i knew there details -use to deliver to a pilot but i`m in feeders now. Don`t see em and couldn`t find the info on the net. Ps Rocky didn`t you post you were going back to school and would be leaving ups ? Too far by mule !

Wild goose is this not your statement? Now lets see you do some damage control and back peddling! Good luck!

 

[Cole]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Brother Red,

It doesn't appear to me that Goose said it as a point of fact.

 

[mittam]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Goose, is this the stewards you are talking of or the NLRB voting? It's my understanding this is about how the vote would be conducted. Just wondering.

 

[wildgoose]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Goose, is this the stewards you are talking of or the NLRB voting? It's my understanding this is about how the vote would be conducted. Just wondering.

It's my understanding this is about how the vote would be conducted. Nothing more and nothing less. Red loves persueing something to hold against ya but theirs no denying what is happening to our Benifits or their would be no reason for the APWA following ! He`s here trying to salvage what damage is already done by our elustreous (Lackluster) Representation.

 

[wildgoose]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Brother Red,

It doesn't appear to me that Goose said it as a point of fact.

Thats right Cole but if its not written down for verification it won`t be posted or i will state this is what i assume will be or happen as stated. Don`t want to get Red in a tissy !

 

[705red]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Voting will take place in front of every UPS throughout the country and as for union halls the teamsters won`t need them ! Van and Danny have that taken care of wether it be in a building outside or on the inside of ups. I bet the operating cost will be a lot less ! They project the dues to be 1/2 of what they are now in 6 months of taking over. If they can operate on 1/2 of the teamsters budget people can see that ! IPA broke away from teamsters and seem to be still flying even higher financialily now. I wish i knew there details -use to deliver to a pilot but i`m in feeders now. Don`t see em and couldn`t find the info on the net. Ps Rocky didn`t you post you were going back to school and would be leaving ups ? Too far by mule !

Brother Red,

It doesn't appear to me that Goose said it as a point of fact.

Cole he said that van and danny have taken care of it as if he was on the inside and had the info already. No where in his statement does he say in his opinion. Goose talks alot of bs and whaen he gets called on it he goes into damage control. Goose i have asked you in the past to think before you type and you wont have this problem of putting your foot in your mouth!

 

[705red]

Re: Rival union aims to replace Teamsters at UPS

Voting will take place in front of every UPS throughout the country and as for union halls the teamsters won`t need them ! Van and Danny have that taken care of wether it be in a building outside or on the inside of ups. I bet the operating cost will be a lot less ! They project the dues to be 1/2 of what they are now in 6 months of taking over. If they can operate on 1/2 of the teamsters budget people can see that ! IPA broke away from teamsters and seem to be still flying even higher financialily now. I wish i knew there details -use to deliver to a pilot but i`m in feeders now. Don`t see em and couldn`t find the info on the net. Ps Rocky didn`t you post you were going back to school and would be leaving ups ? Too far by mule !

Thats right Cole but if its not written down for verification it won`t be posted or i will state this is what i assume will be or happen as stated. Don`t want to get Red in a tissy !

So what is it goose? We will have elections and offices in all ups facilities? Im not in a tissy, im just attempting to understand your posts!

 

[Bill]

Are you and nopsin an item? Is he your manager, because you kiss his alot on here or is he the almighty van or danny? I suggest that you stop giving out bs negative rep points to us teamster brothers who disagree with you. You want to play dirty tactics, negative rep another teamster on here for bs and see where your points go!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you more concerned with rep points which mean absolutely nothing, or are you concerned with the issues that really count?

 

[705red]

Are you more concerned with rep points which mean absolutely nothing, or are you concerned with the issues that really count?

Rep points prove that your not full of it in other members eyes! E79 try and debate the issues and not your over blown outlook on the apwa issue! I see the members see that your full of it and dont buy the crap your selling, keep up the good work, if i was van or danny i would beg you to stop posting because your a 100% idiot and are hurting their cause!