Is anyone following Wisconsin?

[TechGrrl]

WI. residents are paying the Dem. politicians while they stay in another state and spend their $$$$ in that neighboring state....that make no sense to me at all!!

*** Maybe while they are all camping out in Illinois, they can cast some phony ballots for Rahm for mayor of Chicago.

There is no filibuster provision in the Wisconsin legislature; the ONLY way for the Democrats to prevent this bill from passing is to remove themselves so there is no quorum. If you are a union member, this is your fight, too.

 

[brett636]

BRETT,

What hypocrisy and nerve you have. As a "private" sector employee, what amount of money are "YOU" investing into your health care package, your pension or your uniforms when your agents are collectively bargaining on your behalf?

You belong to a one sided bargaining unit. You invest nothing and collect everything.

Goverment employees dont have that priviledge. Depending on the classification, some pay partially for health care, some pay partially for pensions and some pay for other benefits they recieve.

You say you side with the goverment and against the employees because they are negotiating with other peoples money, yet, you negotiate with 100% of UPS's money and you are cool with it.

Ill tell you what, when you can come onto this board and say that you would prefer to pay for your own health care, your own pension, your own uniforms and your own dental, chiropractic, vision and acupuncture care then I will take you seriously.

Your opinion should be consistent. If you believe all the union workers in Wisconsin dont deserve the very benefits you receive, then you should be able to accept "less" as a union member as well.

Its amazing how many people will take from other people in this country all the while attacking the very middle class that they belong to just to satisfy a political party's agenda.

Look at Ohio, the state could lay off every single employee on the states payroll and it would have a zero effect on fixing the budget. So whats the real intention?

Union busting. Another republican governor following an agenda of the RNC to attack middle class americans for a bigger reason. Unions are a big part of the democratic electoral base and eliminating collective bargaining rights of americans will weaken the unions nationwide and limit their influence on the bigger political races like the presidency.

Brett, you pay zero for any benefit you recieve at UPS, if you dont want to appear like a hypocrite, go on the record and say you are making too much and recieving too much in benefits for free.

In todays UPS, drivers are making almost 3 times the average teachers salary (nationwide) depending on area. We make a pension most state employees will never see.

Be consistent, dont ask people in your "class" of americans to bear the burden of the failed policies of the political party that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

The republicans caused the collapse of wall street (from 14K to 6.8K) and lost trillions of invested dollars, most of that pension investments from across this country.

Those lost pension investments are the reason most states cannot afford its pension liabilities. Why is it that you supported president bush's bailouts of the banks, wall street and millionaires and yet you want to take more from middle class americans?

Did you forget about ENRON, WORLDCOM, TYCO taking billions from americans investments and faking the books all the while Ken Lay sat in Bush's inner circle?

You Brett have it all wrong.

Peace.

Thinking things through is not one of your strong points is it?

Tell ya what, when the next contract negotiations come up lets demand a $10/hr. wage increase for every employee across the board every year of the contract. We could even strike for it until the company gives in, that is if they don't close their doors first. The reason we don't and won't make such an egregious demand is because UPS is a private company and comes to the negotiation table with its own money, but if we demand too much and it exceeds what UPS has UPS will either close its doors or go completely out of business when it has to price itself right out of the customer's ability to pay for its services. This effects me and my financial situation because now I would be out of my most valuable asset, my job.

Public sector unions don't have this problem because the politicians they are negotiating with are coming to the table with someone else's money, ie taxpayer funds, and the unions also know that if they demand more than the politicians have they can simply use the police power of government to confiscate it in order to meet their demands. It all depends on how far the politicians are willing to go to court what some of them may see as a valuable block of voters and that is their own employees.

Anyone of those Democrats can come and hang out at my house. My wife will cook up some pasta and I have fire arms to protect them!

Now now, being a resident of Illinois if you, god forbid, had to use those firearms to protect yourself and or your family you would probably still be looking at several years in prison let along the jailtime you would get shooting someone who just wants to compel those cowards to return to the capital to do their job.

Looks like Indiana is following suit.....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/democrats-stay-away-indiana-house-amid-union-protests/

Yes, it looks like the children of my homestate have decided to take their ball and go home too. It appears there needs to be some sort of severe penalty for such a maneuver as either side can simply leave town and stop the government from doing the people's business. Its a shame Mitch Daniels can't take this move as some sort of resignation and resume the legislative session without them.

There are many, many studies that demonstrate that public service unions have traditionally traded take home pay for benefits and security. But even using total compensation (pay+benefits) and adjusting for education level, MOST public service employees make LESS than their brethren in the private sector.

Note that Gov. Walker exempted the police and fire unions from his edict. Since they supported him in the election, AND tend to make more money and have higher pensions (and retire earlier) than teachers and garbage collectors, the agenda here is clear: bust the unions. Fortunately, the police and firefighters can see past the B.S., and know that they will be next. So they are supporting the protesters in Madison.

Also, WISCONSIN IS ONE OF ONLY 4 STATES WITH FULLY FUNDED PENSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they are NOT contributing to the budget shortfall.

AND the state employee unions have agreed to the financial terms of Gov. Walker; they simply want to retain their unions.

Earlier in this thread I cited a study that shows state and federal employees both earn more than their private sector counter parts. What you have stated is no longer true.

 

[The Other Side]

Tell ya what, when the next contract negotiations come up lets demand a $10/hr. wage increase for every employee across the board every year of the contract. We could even strike for it until the company gives in, that is if they don't close their doors first. The reason we don't and won't make such an egregious demand is because UPS is a private company and comes to the negotiation table with its own money, but if we demand too much and it exceeds what UPS has UPS will either close its doors or go completely out of business when it has to price itself right out of the customer's ability to pay for its services. This effects me and my financial situation because now I would be out of my most valuable asset, my job.

Public sector unions don't have this problem because the politicians they are negotiating with are coming to the table with someone else's money, ie taxpayer funds, and the unions also know that if they demand more than the politicians have they can simply use the police power of government to confiscate it in order to meet their demands. It all depends on how far the politicians are willing to go to court what some of them may see as a valuable block of voters and that is their own employees.



BRETT,

try responding to what I asked you directly versus indirectly in the opposite direction of the conversation.

Peace.

 

[TechGrrl]

1) State and local governments got hammered by the recession, which was caused by Wall Street and the greedhead corporations and banks.
2) And in a double whammy, their pensions funds took a big hit when the market tanked. Doubt they have fully recovered.

3) Meanwhile, the top 1% is paying less in taxes than at any time in a 50 year span.
4) Corporations had a record-popping 4th quarter, and their profits are the highest they have ever been, even since before the recession.
5) And the taxpayers bailed out the banks, too.
6) And obscene salaries and bonuses are back in style, while unemployment stays above 9% and workers everywhere are asked to sacrifice!?!?

Anyone who votes Republican needs to have their head examined. Unless you are a corporate executive or a hedge fund manager. Then, you are getting exactly what you want.

People, wake up! If you are going to get envious of goldplated salaries and pensions, teachers and trashhaulers are NOT the correct target! Go after the CEO's and the Koch Brothers, and the rest of the corporate greedheads.....

 

[bbsam]

1) State and local governments got hammered by the recession, which was caused by Wall Street and the greedhead corporations and banks.
2) And in a double whammy, their pensions funds took a big hit when the market tanked. Doubt they have fully recovered.

3) Meanwhile, the top 1% is paying less in taxes than at any time in a 50 year span.
4) Corporations had a record-popping 4th quarter, and their profits are the highest they have ever been, even since before the recession.
5) And the taxpayers bailed out the banks, too.
6) And obscene salaries and bonuses are back in style, while unemployment stays above 9% and workers everywhere are asked to sacrifice!?!?

Anyone who votes Republican needs to have their head examined. Unless you are a corporate executive or a hedge fund manager. Then, you are getting exactly what you want.

People, wake up! If you are going to get envious of goldplated salaries and pensions, teachers and trashhaulers are NOT the correct target! Go after the CEO's and the Koch Brothers, and the rest of the corporate greedheads.....

I understand your angst. Seems alot of the right leaning people I've heard speak on the matter are almost of the mindset that the bankers and the Koch's and the hedge-fund managers are out of reach and they will take their pound of flesh from their neighbors.

 

[packageguy]

What I think is, government bailed out banks, auto, wall street.
Government should give all 50 states some kind of money.
What the heck couple of more billions will not hurt. they created
this mess. Us middleclass always gets the sh*****t side of the stick.

 

[TechGrrl]

I understand your angst. Seems alot of the right leaning people I've heard speak on the matter are almost of the mindset that the bankers and the Koch's and the hedge-fund managers are out of reach and they will take their pound of flesh from their neighbors.

Yeah, that makes SOOOOO much sense! What are we coming to as a nation?

 

[804brown]

Re: Is anyone following this?

Yet you forget that bho stated during his campaign in 2008 , he wants to see gasoline prices rise.
So as POTUS he has doctored reports in order to stop all oil drilling first in the Gulf of Mexico, which a judge has ruled illegal, then he extended a new ban until 2017.
So if we have to only depend on foreign sources for our oil, who does that help ?

"Doctored reports"?? No, as President he has the power to stop all new oil drilling in the Gulf right after the spill. Legally!! Ruled by one oil-friendly judge who accepts $$ from Big Oil!!
His point about higher oil prices, was to push us into using alternative fuels, American technology based alternative fuels!! But it is impossible to move to alternative fules when our government is bought and sold by Big Oil and Big Gas and Big Coal!!

 

[804brown]

What I think is, government bailed out banks, auto, wall street.
Government should give all 50 states some kind of money.
What the heck couple of more billions will not hurt. they created
this mess. Us middleclass always gets the sh*****t side of the stick.

An excerpt from an article by Robert Grenwald (www.Bravenewfilms.org):

Wisconsin's Governor Scott Walker is using phony budget projections to manufacture a staged "fiscal emergency" in his state so that he can whack programs and political opponents, but even his fake "emergency" pales in comparison to the cost of the Afghanistan War to his state. In fact, the U.S. would only have to bring home 151 troops from Afghanistan to save more money than Walker's ridiculous union-busting plan. Better yet, ending the Afghanistan War altogether would save taxpayers in Wisconsin $1.7 billion this year alone, more than ten times the amount "saved" in Walker's attack on state employee rights.

One might ask, "Isn't Walker's fake budget crisis a state budget issue? How would ending the Afghanistan War pay for that?" We get this question a lot when we talk about the cost of war to a state's taxpayer. Keep in mind that state budgets are tangled with federal spending. That's especially true over the past couple of years, as state budgets have relied on federal Recovery Act funds to balance their books during the recession. Spending decisions at the federal level are therefore doubly important, as they not only affect the national budget, but also what funds are available to help preserve state-level public structures.

 

[1timepu]

1) State and local governments got hammered by the recession, which was caused by Wall Street and the greedhead corporations and banks.
2) And in a double whammy, their pensions funds took a big hit when the market tanked. Doubt they have fully recovered.

3) Meanwhile, the top 1% is paying less in taxes than at any time in a 50 year span.
4) Corporations had a record-popping 4th quarter, and their profits are the highest they have ever been, even since before the recession.
5) And the taxpayers bailed out the banks, too.
6) And obscene salaries and bonuses are back in style, while unemployment stays above 9% and workers everywhere are asked to sacrifice!?!?

Anyone who votes Republican needs to have their head examined. Unless you are a corporate executive or a hedge fund manager. Then, you are getting exactly what you want.

People, wake up! If you are going to get envious of goldplated salaries and pensions, teachers and trashhaulers are NOT the correct target! Go after the CEO's and the Koch Brothers, and the rest of the corporate greedheads.....

Typical Liberal talking point's, Top 1% of tax payers pay 50% of Taxes!!! 47% don't pay ANY taxes at ALL! You should be upset with the 47% that don't pay!! Corporation's record profit's come from trimmed down staffing AND thanx to Obama Care companies are holding onto cash, for the unknown about health care!(Did u read the Health care Bill????) Yes Tax payer's bailed out the Bank's against the tax payer's wishes! Obscene Salaries of Private companies ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!, that's up to the share holder's to address that. Go after Ceo's and the Koch brother's and u will put them out of business, and unemployment will soar!! Again liberal viewpoint's account 30% of the country most of the country view's themselves as being conservative. Stop drinking the koolaide and realize what is really happening!

 

[1timepu]

There is no filibuster provision in the Wisconsin legislature; the ONLY way for the Democrats to prevent this bill from passing is to remove themselves so there is no quorum. If you are a union member, this is your fight, too.

It's called cry babies, The Governor ran on exactly what he is doing, the people of Wisconsin voted him into off to do exactly what he said he was going to do........You should be happy a politician is doing what he said on the election trail. It's a breath of fresh air

 

[1timepu]

Re: Is anyone following this?

"Doctored reports"?? No, as President he has the power to stop all new oil drilling in the Gulf right after the spill. Legally!! Ruled by one oil-friendly judge who accepts $$ from Big Oil!!
His point about higher oil prices, was to push us into using alternative fuels, American technology based alternative fuels!! But it is impossible to move to alternative fules when our government is bought and sold by Big Oil and Big Gas and Big Coal!!

That oil friendly judge has http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...contempt-over-gulf-drill-ban-judge-rules.html lol

 

[1timepu]

Obama's Health Care Reform actually brings more people into the system for instance kids of members under 26 yrs old.It stops insurance companies from turning down people with pre-existing conditions, children wil no longer be denied care ,etc.
Party gone "so far left"?? LOL! Maybe you need to be educated a bit. What was done nationally, was backed by people like Bob Dole in 1993 and implemented in Mass. by Gov Romney a few yrs ago! Please, he could have implemented a single payer plan ,like a Medicare for All, but he opted for a plan which empowers the private sector. It gave the private insurers 32 million new customers. That's not socialism buddy!
As for France and Germany, they have more of a mixed economy, not socialism. They both have capitalist economies with a strong publically subsidized social safety net including health care, child care and college education.
As for the Novmeber 2010 elections, don't be fooled. It was not a rejection of Obama or the Dems. It was quite simply an awful economy, the worst since the Great Depression. Dems were in control and they were last year's scapgoat, nothing more. People have already figured out they made a mistake voting in this right wing majority. Im sure that will be corrected next year in 2012!
And I would like to personally thank the Gov of Wisconsin for waking up the labor movement in this country. It has been asleep since 1997.
For those in the NYC area, we will be marching/protesting in front of Fox news headquarters (122 6th ave NYC) at 5pm! Solidarity!

Obama care changed nothing to bringing in anybody NEW to health care. If your Kid is 26 years old he better be out of your house and making a living by then!!! So change the whole system for Pre Existing that makes sense Bob Dole and Romney are not Conservatives!! As for France and Germany man are u so far off, they are socialized countries, you think those people striking in France against the Government are upset over the Government wanting to cut entitlement's ...yes in Germany if u need a new couch you just ask the government for a new one( hint don't argue with me on this I have people who have lived and live with me from Austria Germany France and Switzerland).Those countries are very much socialized! And dude you are son wrong that the election in November was NOT about the Democrats, this is the worse as election's go since 1940's since such a big landslide in an election! How can you say it was NOT about Democrats!! And the governor of Wisconsin is backed by the people of Wisconsin http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2010/11/exit_poll_johnson_walker_victo.html http://www.rasmussenreports.com/older_content/home/top_stories/most_recent_articles some reading for u to en lighting u and dont come back at me with MSNB or NYTIMES or Washington Times or any other liberal media outlet

 

[1timepu]

If you think you deserve free government services, why don't you quit work and go on welfare?
If you don't think what is happening in WI will affect you FIND ANOTHER THREAD TO WHINE ON.

Conservatives don't think that way Liberals do! Yes the Governor in Wisconsin will affect me in a good way here in Pa. And it is so typical for a liberal to not stick to talking point's and comeback with an attack, Did you read the Health care bill ? when u do show me where it say's u wont loose your insurance, let me give u a hint you have to figure it out, like the attack on private insurers, without private insurance what happens??? And that website u mentioned nothing about going after private union's! stick to the talking point's please

 

[1timepu]

Ask these questions when the Republican Party slashes funding for the NLRB. They don't have to disband it to make it totally ineffective.

You have PROOF they are going to do that? or are you lying ?

 

[1timepu]

$100K--false

free health care--false

DOT workers--absolutely true

http://dcjobsource.com/teachersalaries.html

 

[TechGrrl]

Typical Liberal talking point's, Top 1% of tax payers pay 50% of Taxes!!! 47% don't pay ANY taxes at ALL! You should be upset with the 47% that don't pay!! Corporation's record profit's come from trimmed down staffing AND thanx to Obama Care companies are holding onto cash, for the unknown about health care!(Did u read the Health care Bill????) Yes Tax payer's bailed out the Bank's against the tax payer's wishes! Obscene Salaries of Private companies ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!, that's up to the share holder's to address that. Go after Ceo's and the Koch brother's and u will put them out of business, and unemployment will soar!! Again liberal viewpoint's account 30% of the country most of the country view's themselves as being conservative. Stop drinking the koolaide and realize what is really happening!

Man, you're the one who needs to stop drinking the right-wing kool-aide. I'm in the 1% and see the country going to the dogs. If unemployment is over 9% with records profits and low taxes, what do we have to lose? Do you really think that the Koch Bros. give a rip about anything except their obscene profits? If you are a union guy, you are seriously deluded. The GOP will be coming after the Teamsters soon, wait and see...Oh, WAIT! They already are, in Indiana!

 

[hubrat]

Woo hoo! The People still have some sense!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm#uslPageReturn

 

[1timepu]

Man, you're the one who needs to stop drinking the right-wing kool-aide. I'm in the 1% and see the country going to the dogs. If unemployment is over 9% with records profits and low taxes, what do we have to lose? Do you really think that the Koch Bros. give a rip about anything except their obscene profits? If you are a union guy, you are seriously deluded. The GOP will be coming after the Teamsters soon, wait and see...Oh, WAIT! They already are, in Indiana!

Again please stick to the talking point's, first if yur in the top 1% of earner's than what are you doing here? millionaire's pay 50% of taxes, 47 don't pay any at all, do u c the math??According to who ? low taxes ? show proof or else it's a lie a liberal attack method, the Koch bros? are they a private company? and where's the proof the GOP will be coming after Teamster's? stop lying!

 

[1timepu]

Woo hoo! The People still have some sense!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm#uslPageReturn

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ministration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll cmon u can do better than that lol